Ain't Nobody Gonna Tell Me Nothin'! How Many Times Do You Have to Touch a Hot Stove Before You Finally Learn?

[blueluna5]

Hey Everyone,

I've been doing a bit of an evaluation of my own life, and I was asking myself if I've finally gotten burned enough in some areas to at least be a little more cautious.

For several years of my single life, I was involved in ministries that wrote to and visited prison inmates (then later, war veterans/people in the military.) Please note that I am NOT in any way, shape, or form trying to say that there is any connection to inmates or military personnel -- I highly respect anyone and their families who serve their country and its citizens. Rather, the connection for me is that I was always attracted to ministries serving people who have been through extreme situations. When I spent several years volunteering in the children's rooms at church (reading the same story for the 20th time,) I begged God to send me back to the prisons because my mind likes to ruminate over difficult situations.

As could be expected, I had several times when concerned family, church family, bosses, and friends tried to have a serious talk with me and tell me to stop my more concerning ministry work. In turn, I would always cite passages like Matthew 25:36 -- "I was naked, and you clothes me; I was sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me." People would then just give me a look of concern -- followed by another look that I was just crazy.

I understand. But as someone who was adopted, I have always been drawn to the fighters, the underdogs, and the ones who are most often left behind and forgotten.

However, a news story came up (back in the days of actual newspapers) of a young woman in the same state who was doing the same thing with her church. The inmate she wrote had escaped, shot, and, horrifically killed her. The most tragic thing is that she was married -- participating in this ministry from a pure heart with the full support of her husband -- and she had been carrying the couple's first child.

Although I do believe God led me into the ministries I was part of, I also very much believe that with this story, He was telling me to stop. There are many times I've wanted to find something similar, but I know each time God has told me no, for obvious reasons.

After nearly 10 years of writing inmates, the best result is that I made a lifelong friend with someone whose life God has completely turned around. One of the best moments of my life was when I went to visit him and his family outside of bars and windows, and he introduced me to all the people who were helping him get through school and start a career. It was at that moment when I realized for my own self how God can take the smallest things we do -- like sending a letter -- and snowball it into transforming a life from the inside out.

But it took me a very long time for me to learn to listen to God's guidance and corrections.

And I've been the exact same way with relationships and sometimes friendships -- I made a whole bunch of wrong decisions. We all know how it is -- somehow we think we know better, and we won't change until we finally crawl out of the oven, burned and charred -- multiple times.

Sure, I live in almost completely isolation now, but for me, it's a whole lot better than chasing after the wrong people.

What about you?

* Are you someone who learned from what you were told, or from watching others, to avoid many of life's pitfalls (which ones?)

* Are you someone who has to touch the oven several times before you accept that it can hurt you (in what areas?)

* What made you finally decide to stop touching hot ovens?

* If you're in the middle of crawling away from a burning stove, what's been helping you to keep walking -- and recover?

* What advice do you have for others who have told themselves, "Ain't Nobody Gonna Tell Me Nothin'!" -- especially in the same areas you told yourself this?

I would like to please ask that we all be kind, encouraging, and compassionate in this thread.

I think almost every person has areas in life in which they were especially stubborn, and I hope we all help each other along as we repent, turn away, and choose what God wants for us instead.

Thank you so much for sharing!

I usually listened to what I was told growing up. I would listen to not touching the hot stove. Although....I would say the word "hot" gave me the answer for why. As long as I understood the why I would listen. Actually my 1 son is exactly like this. Even at 2 I could discuss why he couldn't do something and he was pretty understanding (for a 2 year old).

My other son... Would have touched the stove 5 times just to spite me. Even knowing it's hot. For that son I need some pretty advanced reverse psychology so that he thinks it's his idea not to touch the stove. That's exhausting as you can imagine.

This is a personality trait. On one hand it's good to do the right thing. We're called to listen to God's law. Your life can really shine by doing this and it's a blessing to many (including yourself).

Here's the caveat. We're called to listen to God, not always man. People don't always give the right advice. People are often wrong. It's not good to blindly listen.... It's not even a good idea to live your life according to man. The people in my family who are "rebels" often live better than the ones trying to please everyone around them. They often accomplish great things as well.

I think prison ministry is very brave. I personally would not feel comfortable doing this ministry bc I'm very naive and trusting compared to a criminal. I personally would never give my address to someone in prison so I would need a po box to even write them (hence that story of the criminal escaping and going after that Christian). Fun fact my family is full of military,police, and prison guards. Prison guards will fake where they live. "Oh I have to drive so far" and my family will take longer to get to work if called in. They also never mention their families, etc. Inmates keep track of that stuff. One family member was almost shanked a couple of times but caught it. You have to always be alert. It's literally life or death.

It's a tough ministry. Getting a little too real. I tried to save many lost guys when young. It never worked out for me. Men like that are predators and prey on naive, weak women. At the same time they need to hear the word of God too. So as long as someone can minister without getting emotionally invested it's a good calling. Although I guess you could say that about many people.

So people don't understand it bc they are concerned. That's totally okay as long as their concerns are not valid bc you're being safe with it. It's not good to blindly listen to people, but it is good to listen to advice. Remember that God talks through people as well.

 

[Lanolin]

In the Bible, it does say 'remember those in chains' and I suppose that was like those who were locked up for their faith, as what used to happen - Paul, Peter etc were imprisoned and we able to escape by praying/angels rescuing.

But this other type of prison ministry it seems is not like that, as most prisoners in prisons these days are not in the faith or Christians at all. So I think that's probably the concern, that evangelising in prisons is risky. I know some people who have done it, or used to do it. The thing is, people can fake a conversion to get out of prison.

My home church used to do a thing called Angel tree, where we bought gifts for children of prisoners. They would ask for something, we would buy it (had to be under $25) and wrap it up and drop it to the child at Christmas on behalf of their parents, as they couldn't go shopping in prison, but still cared about their child(ren). I think it was for under 12 years old, but it does seem those under 18 got as well. However this was sometimes abused as the gifts sometimes never got to the intended child, and were sold off, and those over 13 didn't want gifts they just wanted money. I think drug addict parents/children were like this, and those who were thieves would have stolen gifts for their children.

Recall the verse about gifts - scorpion for an egg or something like that. Thing is some crims actually would give you a scorpion if you asked for an egg to trick you. And not everyone asks God for mercy or wants to be converted.

Then there is rehab for those released from prison or on parole. Would you be willing to go with that process, which can take years.

This is not to say prison ministry is not needed or of value. But I think the motivations need to be examined.
Also, are females doing it for males or for other females, as prisons are mostly single-sex.

Women's refuge though I would get behind, as the victims of crime and harm need this more. There is victim support, I have used it. You call someone and they listen and care and maybe give you a bit of common sense.

 

[Lanolin]

eg If you were writing to Nelson Mandela when he was imprisoned for standing up for humanity, or the ones who were fasting/hunger striking in Northern Ireland or some such, or maybe conscientious objectors, I think that's understandable.

To make friends with a stranger who is imprisoned, I don't know about that. Yes people get lonely in prison. But I think that maybe what it's about, the isolation so they can't harm others or themselves, and maybe time to repent. But every situation probably is different, and people are imprisoned for various reasons according to what the law is in their respective regions.

I once dropped a whole load of withdrawn books to a prison (out of my own volition) but didn't get to meet the librarian there due to covid. It was a maximum security prison. I figured they would welcome the books, and they were mostly children's books as many prisoners can't read or find reading difficult. But others really do need something to do with their time, and reading is probably a better activity to engage in then mindlessly watching tv. I don't really know what activities they do in prison.

My impression of it (I don't REALLY know) is that prisoners are locked up, in cells, where they can sleep and go toilet, and they are given meals or need to go to a canteen to get it, and maybe allowed out to do physical exercise. They may be allowed visitors who need to be approved and speak behind glass (as shown in a lot of tv shows). Maybe they do a bit of art and craft. Some have chapels.

Well you can tell us Seoul..you write to them, and visit them? What's it like. How do people hide the fact they've been to prison, is it shameful, or a brag to say you've done time? How to they feel upon release? How long were the ones you wrote to locked up for?
Did they have mental issues as well? Did they commit actual crimes, or were they locked up for no good reason?

 

[Lanolin]

Prisoners of war or refugees in refugee camps also. I couldn't tell from your post who exactly...maybe it was this. We don't really have a lot of military prisoners in my country. Maybe you were talking about those in another country who are POWs.

 

[Lanolin]

Sorry just to question, was it for VOM - voice of the martyrs? Or was it Amnesty International?

From your post it doesn't seem so. If this was a ministry, was it a parachurch one, or one you were doing solo in a church? Did your parents and church support you in this ministry? Or something else.

I can answer your other questions regarding being stubborn, but just was curious about this. Of course, you can say it's none of my business if you prefer not to go into detail.

 

[seoulsearch]

Well you can tell us Seoul..you write to them, and visit them? What's it like. How do people hide the fact they've been to prison, is it shameful, or a brag to say you've done time? How to they feel upon release? How long were the ones you wrote to locked up for?
Did they have mental issues as well? Did they commit actual crimes, or were they locked up for no good reason?

Hi @Lanolin,

Thanks for your interest in this! I've written about these things extensively in past posts -- so in order to try to keep from boring anyone, I'll try to make a quick synopsis.

I was part of a pen pal ministry way back in the day, so paper letters, and yes, a P.O. (post office) box was the way it was done. I was part of it for around 8 years that I can clearly remember, but it was around 10 -- the time frames are all shuffled in my memory -- and I am still friends with one person from that time. But he was different from the start. He'd been in a few years, and was already trying to better himself, always enrolling in classes, and always taking any job they would offer him even when I met him. He said all the guys made fun of him when they were out on the yard doing whatever, and he was surrounded by books. But it served him well. And he has always believed in God. Today, he has been out for many years and is thriving. God completely turned his life around. I tell him all the time, you've done 10 times better than most people who've never been to prison, and that includes me.

He is the only one I've kept in touch with. I went to visit him and his mother after he got out, and he took me to meet some of the people in organizations that helped him with training and finding a job. He would tell them, "This is my friend, Seoul. She wrote me and visited me while I was in..." One woman looked at me like I was crazy and like he was making it all up, lol.

I believe most of the others I wrote are still in, and the ones who have gotten out, thankfully have not tried to find me.

I chose to write to inmates with some of the worst cases and sentences -- murder, sexual assault, etc. -- and had the most severe sentences, often LWOP (life without parole.) My brain is just drawn to human beings who have been through terrible things, and is always wondering what God's will is for them. My rule for myself was, I never asked them about their cases, because I realized the system recognized them only by their case numbers, and no longer as human beings. But if they started talking about their pasts, I would listen and ask questions as I felt I could.

I was also very interested in their experiences, both before and after getting locked up. I chose to write to those who claimed Christianity when possible. We Christians all say we are forgiven by God. I wanted to talk to people who had done the things society considers the most heinous, but, they now believe that God has forgiven them.

I did go to visit a few. Sometimes it was in a visitation room with others; sometimes it was behind glass. So, I can say I've been to something like 5 maximum security prisons -- but only as a visitor! I learned so much during this time, which is why I often mention it in my posts.

During one visit, I saw an inmate in a wheelchair and asked about him -- I was told the other inmates bathed and cared for him. Another I wrote to had HIV -- this was when it was new and seen as modern Black Plague -- and he told me all the HIV inmates were kept in one place in the prison, quarantined, and basically abandoned by everyone. He had written that during Hurricane Katrina, the water was rising in their cells past their ankles, heading towards their knees -- officers came by with a bottle of water and a sandwich for each inmate -- and then they didn't see a single staff member again for 3 days while this was happening. They didn't know if they would live or drown like rats trapped in cages.

This inmate made it his mission to care for the other HIV positive inmates. And hearing these stories of some inmates choosing to care for others around them made me think about the fact that no matter how badly we mess up this life, God still has a plan and purpose for everyone. He still has others around us that He wants us to serve.

And I'm sure there was no doubt a lot of mental illness -- probably a lot of it undiagnosed, and surely untreated.

There is one inmate I wrote to whom I have no doubt has the makings of a serial killer, but I'm no professional, and I could be very wrong. He had a long history of murder that continued inside the prison. But it gave me a glimpse into what causes people to take that path. He was abused in every way since he could remember (starting as just a toddler,) and it started with fantasies of killing his abusers, to where he chose hate and revenge as his way of life. He hadn't started out that way. He often wrote how, growing up, he longed for love, and a kind of love that wasn't fake or put on for the purpose of abuse.

Every person I wrote to was abused in some way since childhood -- often in multiple ways. For a short while, I wrote to female inmates thinking that might be slightly "safer", but what I found (and I can only speak for myself,) is that the female inmates were 100 times more manipulative than the men, and I actually preferred corresponding with the men because I felt like we could actually talk about important issues (and faith) rather than just having to listen to emotional manipulation. (The men did this too, but they would talk about other things in between.)

I still have a heart for this population, and would go back if God allowed me and showed me a way in which I could do so in some kind of protected manner.

However, I think that would be impossible these days, since you can find anyone through the internet.

Something in me has always longed to work with the more challenging populations, but God is leading me to quieter paths, though they are certainly challenging in their own way.

I hope this answers your questions, and thank you very much for asking!

 

[Lanolin]

Wow that's pretty amazing you did that and stuck with it.
I don't know if I could handle doing something like that, you must have strong constitution and a rare heart of compassion and mercy. Maybe God put that in you.

I think if we persevere with something we will eventually get our reward.

I don't know if people still do or have penpal ministries, I do remember having penpals when I was young and they were people my own age - I would have been about 9 or 10 when I had my first penpals. Most of them were female, and then stopped writing maybe in high school and when internet got popular. We'd just write about what we liked to do, ask about hobbies, our favourite things etc. Maybe lists of what we got for our birthdays/christmas, and we'd send cards to each other. Pretty innocent stuff.

I never wrote to anyone in jail/prison though! It was mostly via the kids section of the newspaper, or like fellow Garfield fans where I got my penpals. lol

 

[Lanolin]

The prison library job I applied for, was a no go, but I did get to tour the prison (Had to go through several locked doors), it was very sad, just could sense the sadness of those locked up.
I've visited those who had to be locked up in ICU at mental hospitals but they would have been those who tried to harm themselves not those convicted of crimes.

I ended up with school librarian job, and some of the children who went to this school would have had parents or siblings in prison. I never really enquired about it tho, it was just something not really talked about. But we absolutely had to keep these children safe, esp if they had guardians because of restraining orders etc.

Children these days don't really write letters and send via post, it's a complete novelty to them. I always got fanmail from them in the library though!

 

[Lanolin]

I don't know if could bring myself to correspond with the shooter of the Christchurch mosque killings...I mean some of the crimes in NZ are notorious as we have small population...but he killed 50 people in one mass shooting its just unconsionable to me.
Nobody in my country wants to have him in our prisons - he's from Australia and we all say he should be deported there.

 

[Lanolin]

On a lighter note am sensing a theme here..hot stoves, exploding microwaves... should we keep you out of the kitchen Seoul?

What are you like with blenders, and knives and chopping boards??
Are you the kind of person who licks icicles and gets your tongue stuck?