Alcohol
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All are free to drink or not to drink as long as what they do is with a clear conscience in teh sight of God.
To debate whether it is right or wrong is moot at best. That is unless you are a lawyer. Do not claim to be grace only if you believe those who drink are sinners, no, you are now a judge. The same holds tru for those who believe the opposite, if that is possible..... you will have to study on that one.
To debate whether it is right or wrong is moot at best. That is unless you are a lawyer. Do not claim to be grace only if you believe those who drink are sinners, no, you are now a judge. The same holds tru for those who believe the opposite, if that is possible..... you will have to study on that one.
You just read it in your quote.
People on here believe in social drinking, & that's fine. I have no beef with that. MY BEEF IS everyone says all wine is fermented, then meaning that grape juice is not mentioned but once in the whole Bible in Deu.6.
With ALL the jewish history surrounding growing vineyards for drinking purposes when water was scarce or poluted, & they refuse to believe it's in the Bible because "wine" covered both juice & alcohol. I DON'T CARE HOW THEY DIVIDE THEM UP, JUST ADMIT THAT IT SO!
When people refuse to admit a small Biblical truth, it's because they're hiding something. You guys go ahead & drink..... just don't judge somebody else in the process. We'll see in the end who has the shortcomings.
Matthew 12:35-37 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. [SUP]36 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. [SUP]37 [/SUP]For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
People on here believe in social drinking, & that's fine. I have no beef with that. MY BEEF IS everyone says all wine is fermented, then meaning that grape juice is not mentioned but once in the whole Bible in Deu.6.
With ALL the jewish history surrounding growing vineyards for drinking purposes when water was scarce or poluted, & they refuse to believe it's in the Bible because "wine" covered both juice & alcohol. I DON'T CARE HOW THEY DIVIDE THEM UP, JUST ADMIT THAT IT SO!
When people refuse to admit a small Biblical truth, it's because they're hiding something. You guys go ahead & drink..... just don't judge somebody else in the process. We'll see in the end who has the shortcomings.
Matthew 12:35-37 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. [SUP]36 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. [SUP]37 [/SUP]For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
I remember many times working at jobs when the people who never said a word about me found out I was a preacher, they then railed, mocked, & even got me fired. If they did it to Jesus, who am I to complain if they do it to me?
Matthew 11:18-19 (NLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For John didn’t spend his time eating and drinking, and you say, ‘He’s possessed by a demon.’ [SUP]19 [/SUP]The Son of Man, on the other hand, feasts and drinks, and you say, ‘He’s a glutton and a drunkard, and a friend of tax collectors and other sinners!’ But wisdom is shown to be right by its results.”
You see, it's not about whether I'm right or wrong in this thread..... it's about people calling themselves saved & permanently so offending God's flock without a care. Their language proves it, & they can't blame nobody else for it with all the posts in the world."Every idle word".
Matthew 11:18-19 (NLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For John didn’t spend his time eating and drinking, and you say, ‘He’s possessed by a demon.’ [SUP]19 [/SUP]The Son of Man, on the other hand, feasts and drinks, and you say, ‘He’s a glutton and a drunkard, and a friend of tax collectors and other sinners!’ But wisdom is shown to be right by its results.”
You see, it's not about whether I'm right or wrong in this thread..... it's about people calling themselves saved & permanently so offending God's flock without a care. Their language proves it, & they can't blame nobody else for it with all the posts in the world."Every idle word".
I agree.
I am talking 1973 too when I went to that particular church.
I have seen some good ones and bad ones myself and you are right there is legalism everywhere - it is the complete opposite of the grace of God.
Some thought they were "it" and had the "full gospel" because they spoke in tongues. ( most hardly ever really did it that much - it was more for a badge )
I'm not against tongues in the least - I love to pray and sing in tongues all the time. Most of my praying is actually in tongues so I am NOT against it....it was just my observation from some of the Pentecostal churches I visited.
Legalism is all it's subtle forms is deadly to the true Christian life.
I am talking 1973 too when I went to that particular church.
I have seen some good ones and bad ones myself and you are right there is legalism everywhere - it is the complete opposite of the grace of God.
Some thought they were "it" and had the "full gospel" because they spoke in tongues. ( most hardly ever really did it that much - it was more for a badge )
I'm not against tongues in the least - I love to pray and sing in tongues all the time. Most of my praying is actually in tongues so I am NOT against it....it was just my observation from some of the Pentecostal churches I visited.
Legalism is all it's subtle forms is deadly to the true Christian life.
If wine was served at the Wedding at Cana, why would it be considered sinful to drink in moderation? When the wine ran out, Jesus made more out of water lol, so that to me alone states that drinking on moderation is okay and not sinful.
When the wine ran out, Jesus made more out of water lol, so that to me alone states that drinking on moderation is okay and not sinful.
Suuuure you are, after all, you said so, & Tintin put his "like" on it, so it must be true.
The grace of God is everything and there is no such thing as "too much grace". Grace is the very thing needed to combat all that is in this world - including legalism.
Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32[/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, whichis able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
We get the inheritance that is ours in Christ all by grace - not any works.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32[/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, whichis able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
We get the inheritance that is ours in Christ all by grace - not any works.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Having spent my youth in a county in North Carolina where Alcohol was forbidden, I was never exposed to people who drank Alcohol is probable the reason I have been a teetotaler my whole life. However, being in the middle of Tobacco country, in order to fit in with the society, you smoked, dipped, or chewed.
I become addicted to cigarettes at an early and was a very heavy smoker for many years. One day in my office, I discovered I had no more cigarettes left in a pack and I am not kidding when I say it left me in a panic.
I do not know how drugs and Alcohol controls one’s life, but I do know how overbearing the addiction to cigarettes is.
There was a small snack bar down stairs in the building where my office was and it became a priority above everything else to purchase a pack of cigarettes.
I was rushing down a staircase and when I reached the last step, I was completely out of breath. After pausing for a minute to catch my breath, I realized I was at a critical turning point and I knew I could not survive smoking over two packs of cigarettes a day.
I sat down on the bottom step, had a little talk with Jesus, and pleaded for help. The last cigarette I smoked in my office that day almost forty years ago was the last cigarette I ever smoked. Thank you Jesus!
Was it easy? Absolutely not, but I had the desire, determination and help from the Holy Spirit and was never in doubt I would come out a winner in the battle against cigarettes that was killing me. I have never witnessed the lure of Alcohol, but I cannot imagine it is any more powerful than Tobacco.
It is because of my experience that I never condemn or pass judgment on any addict because I know how difficult it is to quit. The major difference between being addicted to drug or Alcohol is the affect it has on other people. Cigarette smoke is obnoxious to people who do not smoke including me and will most surely shorten your life, and may rob members of your family of years of having you around.
As Christians, we should pray for those who are addicted to anything, because nothing else we can do will help them.
God can cure an addition in an instance as He did for me, but an addict must come to terms that there are no easy solutions aside from the intervention by a loving God.
If you are addicted to anything and have a real desire to give it up, the only rehab you need is a few minutes in prayer, but you must acknowledge God knows our heart and He also foreknows our actions.
Although I have never found It in my bible, there is a common saying that God helps those that help themselves, but He is more likely to have passion on those that cannot help themselves and there are many addicts that fall in that category.
The road to any addiction starts with the first time of use. Finding anyone addicted to anything that openly admits to being addicted, is as rare as a five legged pig. (Yes, there is such a thing as a five legged pig
Another point concerning any addiction is defining what an addict is. There is obviously an endless means to define an addict, but I can make it easy for you: you will recognize one when, you become one.
I have never known an alcoholic that did not start down that road as a casual drinker. There is no such thing as a born Alcoholic; neither is there such a thing as a hopeless Alcoholic.
Taking the first drink of Alcohol or the first hit of a drug or smoking the first cigarette is not a requirement for becoming an adult. The fact that the subject of Alcohol continues popping up in this forum is an indication that it affects many people.
If you have a problem with any addiction, there is help for you and it is only a prayer away and God awaits with open arms to do for you what you cannot do for yourself.
One last opinion; Jesus Christ knows if the wine He created was fermented or not; you do not know and I do not know and what you or I think about it does mean a hill of beans.
Being addicted to Alcohol, drugs or Cigarettes is like putting a lighted firecracker in your mouth hoping it will not explode, but eventually it will.
Being disrespectful and demeaning to others (and we have all done it sometime in our life), will not further our understanding of the meaning of God’s word.
I am not sure who you were calling a legalist or Pharisee ,but I was raised in a Pentecostal church and if you were referring to Pentecostals as Legalist or a pharisee, although I do not understand your reference to a Pharisee I accept your derogatory remarks with a chuckle.
I am not adverse to being called a Pentecostal, but I do not accept any label for myself except Christian because that is what I am. I do not believe in denomination labels either and I have been a church goer most of my live, but I have never been the member of any particular church because the only identification I label myself with is a Born again Christian.
We live in a free country with freedoms found no where else in the world and there is little doubt that the most popular exercise of that freedom is demeaning and making jokes at other peoples expense.
A truth we should all remember is Satan is alive and well in the world today and if he is aware of the opinions on this forum today, which he probably is, it must leave his smiling.
We are all poor lost sinners struggling again principalities that are determined to divide and even destroy the Church.
God has no respect of person and each of us has the same God given opportunities to either accept or reject the truth of His word.
So, if you get pleasure from criticism and demeaning other people you have every right to do so, but I fail to see where it helps to further the word of God.
Don't misunderstand, I am not picking on you exclusively, we are all guilty of saying things we shouldn't and I am as guilt as anyone, but that does not alter the fact that it is wrong and it does not further the Cross of Christ and that is what this forum should be about.
God Help Us All
I become addicted to cigarettes at an early and was a very heavy smoker for many years. One day in my office, I discovered I had no more cigarettes left in a pack and I am not kidding when I say it left me in a panic.
I do not know how drugs and Alcohol controls one’s life, but I do know how overbearing the addiction to cigarettes is.
There was a small snack bar down stairs in the building where my office was and it became a priority above everything else to purchase a pack of cigarettes.
I was rushing down a staircase and when I reached the last step, I was completely out of breath. After pausing for a minute to catch my breath, I realized I was at a critical turning point and I knew I could not survive smoking over two packs of cigarettes a day.
I sat down on the bottom step, had a little talk with Jesus, and pleaded for help. The last cigarette I smoked in my office that day almost forty years ago was the last cigarette I ever smoked. Thank you Jesus!
Was it easy? Absolutely not, but I had the desire, determination and help from the Holy Spirit and was never in doubt I would come out a winner in the battle against cigarettes that was killing me. I have never witnessed the lure of Alcohol, but I cannot imagine it is any more powerful than Tobacco.
It is because of my experience that I never condemn or pass judgment on any addict because I know how difficult it is to quit. The major difference between being addicted to drug or Alcohol is the affect it has on other people. Cigarette smoke is obnoxious to people who do not smoke including me and will most surely shorten your life, and may rob members of your family of years of having you around.
As Christians, we should pray for those who are addicted to anything, because nothing else we can do will help them.
God can cure an addition in an instance as He did for me, but an addict must come to terms that there are no easy solutions aside from the intervention by a loving God.
If you are addicted to anything and have a real desire to give it up, the only rehab you need is a few minutes in prayer, but you must acknowledge God knows our heart and He also foreknows our actions.
Although I have never found It in my bible, there is a common saying that God helps those that help themselves, but He is more likely to have passion on those that cannot help themselves and there are many addicts that fall in that category.
The road to any addiction starts with the first time of use. Finding anyone addicted to anything that openly admits to being addicted, is as rare as a five legged pig. (Yes, there is such a thing as a five legged pig
Another point concerning any addiction is defining what an addict is. There is obviously an endless means to define an addict, but I can make it easy for you: you will recognize one when, you become one.
I have never known an alcoholic that did not start down that road as a casual drinker. There is no such thing as a born Alcoholic; neither is there such a thing as a hopeless Alcoholic.
Taking the first drink of Alcohol or the first hit of a drug or smoking the first cigarette is not a requirement for becoming an adult. The fact that the subject of Alcohol continues popping up in this forum is an indication that it affects many people.
If you have a problem with any addiction, there is help for you and it is only a prayer away and God awaits with open arms to do for you what you cannot do for yourself.
One last opinion; Jesus Christ knows if the wine He created was fermented or not; you do not know and I do not know and what you or I think about it does mean a hill of beans.
Being addicted to Alcohol, drugs or Cigarettes is like putting a lighted firecracker in your mouth hoping it will not explode, but eventually it will.
Being disrespectful and demeaning to others (and we have all done it sometime in our life), will not further our understanding of the meaning of God’s word.
I am not sure who you were calling a legalist or Pharisee ,but I was raised in a Pentecostal church and if you were referring to Pentecostals as Legalist or a pharisee, although I do not understand your reference to a Pharisee I accept your derogatory remarks with a chuckle.
I am not adverse to being called a Pentecostal, but I do not accept any label for myself except Christian because that is what I am. I do not believe in denomination labels either and I have been a church goer most of my live, but I have never been the member of any particular church because the only identification I label myself with is a Born again Christian.
We live in a free country with freedoms found no where else in the world and there is little doubt that the most popular exercise of that freedom is demeaning and making jokes at other peoples expense.
A truth we should all remember is Satan is alive and well in the world today and if he is aware of the opinions on this forum today, which he probably is, it must leave his smiling.
We are all poor lost sinners struggling again principalities that are determined to divide and even destroy the Church.
God has no respect of person and each of us has the same God given opportunities to either accept or reject the truth of His word.
So, if you get pleasure from criticism and demeaning other people you have every right to do so, but I fail to see where it helps to further the word of God.
Don't misunderstand, I am not picking on you exclusively, we are all guilty of saying things we shouldn't and I am as guilt as anyone, but that does not alter the fact that it is wrong and it does not further the Cross of Christ and that is what this forum should be about.
God Help Us All
Pro 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
Pro 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Pro 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
It isn't my job to judge others but these verses tell me what is right for me.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Every alcoholic drink is making provision for the flesh.
Pro 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Pro 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
It isn't my job to judge others but these verses tell me what is right for me.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Every alcoholic drink is making provision for the flesh.