Allusions To A Purgatory

[emjcares]

i have no idea how else to explain it to you. your trying to focus to hard on the label of "Christian" which didnt exist in the days of Jesus. He taught the Hebrew bible, He taught mostly to Jews, majority of the Jews did not agree. thats the point. dont think about whether they were Christian or Jew, just think of who the messenger was directed to. and the majority did not agree with Him.



i know what it means, i never said different.




so our belief should be focused on what "most Christians" believe above what the bible teaches? "most" that heard Jesus teach did not believe. so who do we go with, "most people" or that small number of people that included Jesus and the 12?
are you getting it yet?



i have understood since the first post. you sound like you are dodging the point



i have no authority on how the owners run this site.

Wow, you are showing yourself to be as dense as a doorpost.

The conversation we were having when you came in was regarding the triune nature of God. My statement, so even YOU can understand, was that the majority of CHRISTIANS....CHRISTIANS.....CHRISTIANS, do you get it gonzo, since this is at least the third post I've said it, the majority of CHRISTIANS have believed in the triune nature of God down through the ages.
Can you finally get the tailfeathers out of your head and grasp what we were talking about?

It has nothing to do with what the majority or minority of people thought when Jesus was on the earth teaching from the Old Testament.
That's not what the conversation was.

The bible reveals the triune nature of God, and most CHRISTIANS, CHRISTIANS, CHRISTIANS.....These are people who came to believe in Jesus AFTER His death and resurrection, CHRISTIANS, CHRISTIANS, CHRISTIANS, believe the bible, so the majority of CHRISTIANS, CHRISTIANS, CHRISTIANS, believe in the trinity.

And no one said, that because people believe it, it must be true, chief strawman, ... The bible contains it, and people believe it. Doyyah!

 

[PaulMack]

New American Standard Bible - NASB

I believe you will like this version as its more of a word for word Translation instead of a thought to thought translation like the NIV version.

Also stay away from any Catholic Bible translation.

 

[mailmandan]

New American Standard Bible - NASB

I believe you will like this version as its more of a word for word Translation instead of a thought to thought translation like the NIV version.

Also stay away from any Catholic Bible translation.

Here is John 3:16 in the NASB - For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Now read what the NAB (Catholic Bible) says in John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.

"Two mights" sure don't make it sound very certain that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[RBA238]

-
Allusion (07)

POSIT: Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1030 . . All who die in God's
grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal
salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness
necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

RESPONSE: According to Pope Leo X's Bull of Exurge Domine, people in purgatory are
unable to sin; viz: they have no propensity to sin; ergo: if Leo X is right, then people in
purgatory would be familiar with God, and associate with Him on a regular basis.

● Matt 5:8 . . Blessed are the pure of heart, for they will see God.

Since nobody sins in purgatory, nor indeed can sin, then whatever is Rome talking
about when it says imperfectly purified?

That has reference, at least in part, to CCC 1031 which says: As for certain lesser
faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire.

One of the so-called purifying fire's purposes is to remove the contamination
caused by sin. That thought is based upon 1John 1:9 which infers that in
order to obtain decontamination for one's sins; they have to be confessed.

Well; in the event that some of one's lesser faults slip through a crack, purgatory's
fire takes care of those. Unfortunately, purgatory does nothing for so-called mortal sins.
When people leave this life with even one unconfessed mortal sin on the books, they go
straight to hell.

NOTE: I've been told that one's "intention" to confess a mortal sin counts as confession.

For some odd reason, Rome has totally missed the purpose of confession as per 1John
1:5-10. It's not for getting one's self cleaned up for heaven. No, far from it. The purpose
is fellowship-- translated from the Greek word is koinonia (koy-nohn-ee'-ah) --which
basically means partnership and/or participation and social intercourse.

In a nutshell: a profitable association with God in this life depends upon keeping one's
sins confessed in a timely manner.

● 1John 1:3 . .What we have seen and heard we proclaim now to you, so that you too
may have fellowship with us; for our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son,
Jesus Christ.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Hebrews 9 verse 27: " And it is appointed for man once to die, and after this THE JUDGEMENT."........The judgement is in Revelation, Chaprer 20 verse 10. No.mention of another chance, ReHab in "Purgatory" . You either die and enter into Glory, or you die a sinner not covered in tbe blood of Jesus, and wind up in Hell, then thrown into The Lake of Fire after the "Great White Throne Judgement" in Revelation chapter 20.
End of story...

 

[Dino246]

I haven't read all five pages, so please forgive me if this has been addressed already...

The basic problem with taking the story in II Maccabees as support for the existence of purgatory (aside from the obvious fact that it is not Scripture) is that it takes narrative and makes doctrine from it. This is a bad idea where the narrative is not God's own. Just because something happens does not mean that is what God wants, or commands, or condones, or teaches. One only need to read Judges to understand that.

 

[jaybird88]

Wow, you are showing yourself to be as dense as a doorpost.

The conversation we were having when you came in was regarding the triune nature of God. My statement, so even YOU can understand, was that the majority of CHRISTIANS....CHRISTIANS.....CHRISTIANS, do you get it gonzo, since this is at least the third post I've said it, the majority of CHRISTIANS have believed in the triune nature of God down through the ages.
Can you finally get the tailfeathers out of your head and grasp what we were talking about?

The bible reveals the triune nature of God, and most CHRISTIANS, CHRISTIANS, CHRISTIANS.....These are people who came to believe in Jesus AFTER His death and resurrection, CHRISTIANS, CHRISTIANS, CHRISTIANS, believe the bible, so the majority of CHRISTIANS, CHRISTIANS, CHRISTIANS, believe in the trinity.

And no one said, that because people believe it, it must be true, chief strawman, ... The bible contains it, and people believe it. Doyyah!

your making no sense at all. your proclaiming a truth not on the bible or evidence but because the majority say it to be true. your telling RBA238 he is wrong on his view, and why? because its outside the group. outside of what the majority of Christians believe.
your telling me it has nothing to do with the majority but your the one that is hanging your hat on what the majority believe.

interesting your calling me names yet im not the one that needs a group to make my decisions for me. i can think for myself, you should try it sometime.

It has nothing to do with what the majority or minority of people thought when Jesus was on the earth teaching from the Old Testament.
That's not what the conversation was.

yes, because what Jesus taught has noting to do with Christianity, and im dense?

 

[RBA238]

your making no sense at all. your proclaiming a truth not on the bible or evidence but because the majority say it to be true. your telling RBA238 he is wrong on his view, and why? because its outside the group. outside of what the majority of Christians believe.
your telling me it has nothing to do with the majority but your the one that is hanging your hat on what the majority believe.

interesting your calling me names yet im not the one that needs a group to make my decisions for me. i can think for myself, you should try it sometime.



yes, because what Jesus taught has noting to do with Christianity, and im dense?

Excellent!...The "Majority" follow the teachings of whatever their chosen denomination teaches. And don't forget peer pressure from whatever family and friends have come to beleive.."The Blind leading The Blind" if you will.

Jesus told us: "If you Love Mother or Father etc, more then me; YOU ARE NOT WORTHY OF ME

Also read Acts 2 verse 42/ I Timothy 4 vese 16.
Plainly tells us we better beleive every.word the Apostles Taught us in The Epistles, or don't.plan in attending "The Marriage Supper of The Lamb" because The Lord will withdraw those who don't follow, the invitation. Amen.

 

[jaybird88]

Excellent!...The "Majority" follow the teachings of whatever their chosen denomination teaches. And don't forget peer pressure from whatever family and friends have come to beleive.."The Blind leading The Blind" if you will.

Jesus told us: "If you Love Mother or Father etc, more then me; YOU ARE NOT WORTHY OF ME

Also read Acts 2 verse 42/ I Timothy 4 vese 16.
Plainly tells us we better beleive every.word the Apostles Taught us in The Epistles, or don't.plan in attending "The Marriage Supper of The Lamb" because The Lord will withdraw those who don't follow, the invitation. Amen.

that was the point all along, follow Jesus, not the group. i dont care if the group says they are Christian, jim jones said he was Christian.

 

[Namiette]

My whole family are RCC members. And no one of them can answer me one question: Why Jesus had to die, if His blood is not sufficient to save you and you have to suffer in purgatory (according to teachings of RCC)? Their answer was: "You don't understand it." Yes, I don't understand it. And I don't even want to. I am purified by Jesus's blood and NOTHING can purge me more. NOTHING. Not my pain, not my misery, not my deeds. Only His blood can purify me. Only He is my Saviour.

 

[RBA238]

My whole family are RCC members. And no one of them can answer me one question: Why Jesus had to die, if His blood is not sufficient to save you and you have to suffer in purgatory (according to teachings of RCC)? Their answer was: "You don't understand it." Yes, I don't understand it. And I don't even want to. I am purified by Jesus's blood and NOTHING can purge me more. NOTHING. Not my pain, not my misery, not my deeds. Only His blood can purify me. Only He is my Saviour.

....And The Good News, you don't have to Shell out your hard earned money for people who live inba Palace, and ask you to "Donate" to help them "Pray" folks out of Purgatory!

 

[Vdp]

You must understand Namiette that the Catholic Church teaches that the Blood of Jesus does cleanse us from all our sins, but there is a stain on us left by our sins that even God is powerless to wash away.

The Catholic Church teaches its by doing penance in Purgatory that WE by our own WORKS cleanse our self's of the Stain of our sins that God is powerless and unable to do for us.

Its the Old, "Works For Salvation", Theology that has been repackaged and resold to the Catholics to put them in Bondage to the Catholic Church.

The Blood of Jesus was sufficient in washing us clean of ALL our sins. Therefore you do not need to spend anytime in Purgatory!

You are the only True Christian in your Family, just like me. My whole family are Catholic and i'm a Christian. Outcast by my family for being a True Child of God.

My Reward in Heaven is greater then my Family, so i chose Heaven over Family.

 

[RBA238]

You must understand Namiette that the Catholic Church teaches that the Blood of Jesus does cleanse us from all our sins, but there is a stain on us left by our sins that even God is powerless to wash away.

The Catholic Church teaches its by doing penance in Purgatory that WE by our own WORKS cleanse our self's of the Stain of our sins that God is powerless and unable to do for us.

Its the Old, "Works For Salvation", Theology that has been repackaged and resold to the Catholics to put them in Bondage to the Catholic Church.

The Blood of Jesus was sufficient in washing us clean of ALL our sins. Therefore you do not need to spend anytime in Purgatory!

You are the only True Christian in your Family, just like me. My whole family are Catholic and i'm a Christian. Outcast by my family for being a True Child of God.

My Reward in Heaven is greater then my Family, so i chose Heaven over Family.

Makes 3 of us on here former.Catholics and the Only one in our Family who left that Cult...You can't tell them the truth..

 

[Namiette]

Makes 3 of us on here former.Catholics and the Only one in our Family who left that Cult...You can't tell them the truth..

"You can't tell them the truth." If "them" means our families, then I disagree. I tried many times tell them the truth. But they called me a heretic and apostate... They can't see and maybe they don't want to see. I am praying for them. I feel such a pain when I see blinded people participating in Memorial services for the souls in Purgatory.

 

[RBA238]

You must understand Namiette that the Catholic Church teaches that the Blood of Jesus does cleanse us from all our sins, but there is a stain on us left by our sins that even God is powerless to wash away.

The Catholic Church teaches its by doing penance in Purgatory that WE by our own WORKS cleanse our self's of the Stain of our sins that God is powerless and unable to do for us.

Its the Old, "Works For Salvation", Theology that has been repackaged and resold to the Catholics to put them in Bondage to the Catholic Church.

The Blood of Jesus was sufficient in washing us clean of ALL our sins. Therefore you do not need to spend anytime in Purgatory!

You are the only True Christian in your Family, just like me. My whole family are Catholic and i'm a Christian. Outcast by my family for being a True Child of God.

My Reward in Heaven is greater then my Family, so i chose Heaven over Family.

Pm..Amen...In May My married Daughter, and I Flew up to a family reunion. All there were Catholics but us. They will talk about anything you want just Not About Church.
So we all just dodged the subject and talked about everything else I am Praying God will open a Door for me to try to reach them...been trying for 29 years almost to no avail...I love them..but i keep a distance from them both mileage wise and spiritual wise. The Lord is The one to lay upon their heart...The Bible sez: "Except The Lord
Builds a house; a man labors in vain.."

 

[Namiette]

You must understand Namiette that the Catholic Church teaches that the Blood of Jesus does cleanse us from all our sins, but there is a stain on us left by our sins that even God is powerless to wash away.

The Catholic Church teaches its by doing penance in Purgatory that WE by our own WORKS cleanse our self's of the Stain of our sins that God is powerless and unable to do for us.

Its the Old, "Works For Salvation", Theology that has been repackaged and resold to the Catholics to put them in Bondage to the Catholic Church.

The Blood of Jesus was sufficient in washing us clean of ALL our sins. Therefore you do not need to spend anytime in Purgatory!

You are the only True Christian in your Family, just like me. My whole family are Catholic and i'm a Christian. Outcast by my family for being a True Child of God.

My Reward in Heaven is greater then my Family, so i chose Heaven over Family.

The most horrifying is the fact that they do not have any arguments. They are speechless when you ask them to answer simple questions. They have nothing to say because the Word of God convicts their doctrines. And if they find courage to say something, it's very often some insult (my experience with my family).

 

[RBA238]

The most horrifying is the fact that they do not have any arguments. They are speechless when you ask them to answer simple questions. They have nothing to say because the Word of God convicts their doctrines. And if they find courage to say something, it's very often some insult (my experience with my family).

I have an older sister retired, who really is sold out on anything The RCC beleives. We can discused Psalms or Proverbs that is about the extent of it...It breaks my heart because she is sold out 100% to whatever they teach and beleive. I pray for all of them everyday, but if God does not put a call on their lives, nothing i can do
.

 

[skye51]

From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. (Luke 11:51). Zacharias was the last person to be mentioned by Jesus from the Old Testement. This proves that Jesus did not acknowledge the Apocrypha as he never mentioned anybody out of it. He also never preached purgatory, that is why it dosen't exist.

 

[Vdp]

The one thing that caused a total break from my Family was when i finally was able to bring the Truth of the Gospel to my Mom just before she died of Cancer. Months before she died, she accepted Jesus as her Savior and walked away from the Catholic Church to become a member of a True Christian Church.

This was 20 years ago and still to this day my dad REFUSES to even speak to me. He blames me for putting my Mother in Hell because she left the Catholic Church and now cannot enter into Heaven.

As for my Dad i know I should forgive him, BUT I WILL NOT! I know this is not what a Christian should do but life was a Hell living with my dad. Its hard to forgive him for all the physical and sexual abuse i had to endure from him when i was growing up.

 

[emjcares]

your making no sense at all. your proclaiming a truth not on the bible or evidence but because the majority say it to be true.That's a lie and you know it.(emj) your telling RBA238 he is wrong on his view, and why? because its outside the group.That's not why. Lie again. outside of what the majority of Christians believe.
your telling me it has nothing to do with the majority but your the one that is hanging your hat on what the majority believe.Another lie. This is why you get called names, no integrity, lol, boo-hoo

interesting your calling me names yet im not the one that needs a group to make my decisions for me. i can think for myself, you should try it sometime.Duh, gee, teach me how, can ya sweety?



yes, because what Jesus taught has noting to do with Christianity, and im dense?Oh, you mean like when you said Jesus was here teaching from the OT and people didn't believe His teachings, and I said I was referring to CHRISTIANS believing in the triune nature of God? Ahem, there WERE no christians until the death and resurrection of Jesus, Einstein. Teach me again, will ya, gosh, will ya???

So you're wrong again, doughbrain, and I've repeated the post for you to get, at least 3 times, so now your just showing yourself to be an ignorant dolt, and you like to get your kicks by pretending you can't read so you can goad people into saying things that you can then report them on and get them banned, because you're a childish little boy with no interest in the truth, only playing internet games in your underwear. Ok, peanutboy, listen up ... ANY truth doesn't BECOME true because people believe it, are you too dense to get that for the 4th time?

Something's true, and people can believe it or not. GET IT?!

ALSO, Down through the ages, the majority of christians have believed in the trinity, and the majority still do.

People are free to believe whatever they want.
Makes no difference. If something's true, it's true.

That's what I showed you enough times that even a third-grader could understand it, but since you merely like to play games and stir up trouble, you've only proven yourself to be a deliberately antagonistic dweeb.

So, Say whatever baloney you want from now on, we know it can't be taken seriously. If you ever decide you want to grow up enough and want to discuss grown-up things like the trinity Honestly, not to play pretend like you can't comprehend, let me know ... until then I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

 

[RBA238]

The one thing that caused a total break from my Family was when i finally was able to bring the Truth of the Gospel to my Mom just before she died of Cancer. Months before she died, she accepted Jesus as her Savior and walked away from the Catholic Church to become a member of a True Christian Church.

This was 20 years ago and still to this day my dad REFUSES to even speak to me. He blames me for putting my Mother in Hell because she left the Catholic Church and now cannot enter into Heaven.

As for my Dad i know I should forgive him, BUT I WILL NOT! I know this is not what a Christian should do but life was a Hell living with my dad. Its hard to forgive him for all the physical and sexual abuse i had to endure from him when i was growing up.

Great and touching story...For your peace of mind you need to forgive your Dad weather he accepts your forgiveness. Christians cannot harbor ill feelings for those especially family members who hurt us. God expects and wants us to forgive and let it go..Praying for you bro.