Am I really saved even though I willingly sinned?

[blue_ladybug]

first, I have to spread some reputation around or you would have gotten a rep..

second. Amen, If your saved your saved,,

If it can be lost Your not saved.. Simple as that.. The simplicity of God and the gospel. which people do not want to see, because they think it is too easy, ad by denying it prove just how hard it is.

aww, e-g, thank you. Just put the rep on your list of "people I wanna rep when the system lets me." lol My opinion is, once you're saved, that's it, it's a one time deal. It's ridiculous to think that you get unsaved and resaved a zillion times over. It's a one time deal, just as Jesus dying on the cross was a one time deal.

 

[shotgunner]

I just want the truth

Then let me ask you this. Were you saved by the sacrifice you made, or were you saved by faith in the sacrifice Jesus made? Are you saved by acting perfect, or are you saved because Jesus paid the price for your not acting perfect?

Go and read Galatians.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

aww, e-g, thank you. Just put the rep on your list of "people I wanna rep when the system lets me." lol My opinion is, once you're saved, that's it, it's a one time deal. It's ridiculous to think that you get unsaved and resaved a zillion times over. It's a one time deal, just as Jesus dying on the cross was a one time deal.

or as I like to say.

God is God, The most powerful being in all of anything (inside th euniverse or outside of it)

When he saves you, He saves you completely. No wish washy, partial weak, unfinished saving from him.

Your saved, or your not saved, no in between.

 

[Magenta]

I just want the truth

[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"] Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life." [/TD]

 

[JGIG]

John Burton?

Enough said.

He claims that there are 'unsaved Christians'.

His theology is twisted and evil.

BigGuy, please don't be taken in by this man.

An accurate presentation of the Gospel of Grace can be found in the following book:

The Hyper-Grace Gospel: A Response to Michael Brown and Those Opposed to the Modern Grace Message

You can read it on any device with a Kindle app for $5.99 or for free if you're an Amazon Prime member.

Wish I had more time to address this, but will post something I put together last Spring when Burton's twisted theology came to my attention:



____ Identity - Discernment - Rightly Dividing the Word ____

Discernment is rooted in our identity in Christ and how God sees us and relates to us because we are in Christ. The Gospel will give your spirit REST as the column on the left details; the Enemy will insert STRIFE into your spirit as the column on the right details.

Rightly dividing the Word is also intertwined with our identity in Christ.

For instance, will Jesus EVER say to you, "I NEVER knew you" when you are in Christ? No! Why? Because you are IN HIM and ONE WITH HIM - sealed by His Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (see 1 Cor. 6:17 and Eph. 1).

Another example: How many times do we die in Christ? Once! Then we are raised with him unto Eternal Life! The term 'dying to self' gets a lot of mileage in Christian circles, but it's a wrong term. It never even appears in Scripture! When we enter into Christ by faith, we are crucified with Him (a death that we cannot accomplish ourselves - if you manage to get one hand up on the Cross, then what?!) and are raised with Him (again, not something that we can accomplish, but is accomplished only by the power of God).

How many times does this happen?

Once.

So instead of 'dying to self daily', consider your old self dead to sin and alive to Christ, and live your life accordingly:

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. (from Rom. 6)​

In Christ, we can offer ourselves as instruments of righteousness - because we ARE righteous with God's righteousness IN CHRIST. Any theology or belief system that teaches you how sinful and dirty you are is a false theology/belief system - it's lying to you about who you are in Christ according to Scripture.

Test yourself to see if you're sinning/not sinning? No! Test yourselves to se if you're in the faith - in Christ (see 2 Cor. 3)! The Bible says that God's commands after the Cross are these: Believe on the One He has sent and to love one another (from 1 Jn. 3:23-24). Paul says in Romans 10:

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”​

Christ Jesus is the Foundation in Whom you are irrevocably sealed when you believe.

Foundation: That which is established, unmovable, and on which all else is built.​

Now look at the list in the illustration above.

Consider what you are taught, read, and presented with by others.

Consider the Foundation in Whom you have been sealed.

Now evaluate what you're hearing/reading/seeing and measure those things by

---> Who Jesus is
---> What He came to do
---> What that actually accomplished, an
---> Who you are in Him​

A Gospel-centered theology/belief system will focus on Christ and His Perfect, Permanent High Priesthood and our freedom to approach His Throne of Grace boldly in our times of need (contextually when we are struggling with sinning). Notice that the believer does not approach a throne of judgment, but one of Grace (see Heb. 4:14-16).

A Gospel-centered theology/belief system should not point you to your sins/faults and what you must do to overcome them; rather a Gospel-centered theology/belief system will point you to Christ and build you up in who you are in Him, encourage you to go to His Throne of Grace boldly (for that is where you will receive the power to say no to sinning and live godly and upright lives), and exhort you to live as the adopted heir that you ARE in Christ \o/!

Learn to discern what God is telling you vs. what the Enemy is telling you while standing on your Foundation, Christ Jesus, keeping in mind what is true about Him and who the Bible says you are in Him.

Grace and peace,
-JGIG

 

[crossnote]

I was beginning to wonder. I am new here still and thought this was a legit post. No, I won't argue God's Word, thank you for the headsup, denise

Your good, I don't think anyone was addressing your post.

 

[crossnote]

Big Guy, have one on me ...

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Remember, you have passed out of condemnation into LIFE.

 

[BigGuy]

I did not mean to sound like a proponent of perfectionism. I just want to know what is true. Thank you to those who responded

 

[shotgunner]

I did not mean to sound like a proponent of perfectionism. I just want to know what is true. Thank you to those who responded

As long as you are honestly seeking answers, most everyone here will be happy to discuss the issue as long as you want.

Contrary to what some believe, those of us who preach grace are not looking for a way to sin legally. The very fact that you are concerned about sin is a good sign that you are saved. It shows that you have a new nature that does not want to sin and hates that you did sin.

 

[BigGuy]

Thank you everyone

 

[knownbyGod]

Thanks CN,

I think I got confused somewhere, lol, which is not unusual for me Anyway, I am just glad to be amongst believers online. It's nice to have you when I am not able to be out and about with my church-fellowship, denise

 

[Araya]

Hey bigguy,
Not sure if this will help or not,
But I found when I was saved, the devil did everything... I mean everything in his power to lead me into temptation and put the opportunity to sin in front of me,
I'm not perfect, and yes I back peddled and yes sinned also after being saved and did this willingly.
But I asked for forgiveness I said lord Im new here and I'm not perfect I know there will be trials and hurdles and the devil will try everything to make me turn back into my former self, but with your help Im learning and I'm growing in Christ everyday.

No Christian is perfect, and I'm sure we all do things everyday that aren't the right thing to do, but we need to recognise when we have done the wrong thing, pray for forgiveness, receive forgiveness and move on in our walk with God.

 

[james57]

I sinned willingly after saved and I heard a message about the false grace movement. Am I really saved?

If you were conscious before God of your sin when you sinned wilfully you are truly saved, for that can only happen if you have been born again of the spirit. There are many definitions of what constitutes a christian. But if you are Gods child the spirit has placed Gods laws within you. Once Tha happens you are conscious of your sin. So we can say if you have heartfelt conviction of your sin before God you are saved
A christian counsellor said to ne once. The people who feel bad for there shortcomings are on surer ground with God than those who think they are doing great.
He's right
God bless

 

[knownbyGod]

I'm not sure this fits in with what we are discussing, but I have talked about it many times, with many christians. Of course I've gotten mixed opinions on it, but I agree with it. I don't mean to say that telling someone or focusing on the grace given to a believer is wrong, but I just think a good balance of Jesus teachings is what I need at least. If I'm off-base, I trust that someone will speak up. I do misunderstand posts/threads sometimes, and I am open-minded when it comes to learning God's Word denise

This is from an author named Randy Alcorn and his book called "The Truth and Grace Paradox". I came upon it because I had actually been going to the church where Randy preached. Feedback welcome:

[h=3]The Grace and Truth Paradox: Responding with Christlike Balance[/h] What should the world see when it looks at us? Christ. But we've come up with hundreds of principles and thousands of rules attempting to be Christlike. It's too complicated to wrap our minds around. And Christ gets buried under lists, rules and formulas.

John 1:14 boils down for us what it means to be Christlike. It means to be full of only two things: Grace and Truth. Instead of a dozen, this gives us just two balls to juggle. It's succinct, a two point checklist of Christlikeness. Everything we do can and should be measured by the test of grace and truth.

Christlikeness means living by grace and truth, extending both to others. Instead of the world's apathy and tolerance, we offer grace. Instead of the world's relativism and deception, we offer truth.

If we minimize grace the world sees no hope for salvation. If we minimize truth, the world sees no need for salvation. To show the world Jesus, we must offer full-orbed, unabridged truth and grace, magnifying both, never downsizing or apologizing for either.

 

[justpassinthrough]

I did not mean to sound like a proponent of perfectionism. I just want to know what is true. Thank you to those who responded

What particular verse was it that brought about the original post?

Was it -

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:26-27


Is this the verse that got you to thinking...?


justpassinthrough

 

[justpassinthrough]

What particular verse was it that brought about the original post?

Was it -

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:26-27


Is this the verse that got you to thinking...?


justpassinthrough

This verse is a continuation of thought from an earlier statement he made in Chapter 3.

The problem in those days was persecution from other Jews, who were pressuring new Jewish Christians to turn back to the law of Moses by turning away from Christ, or for Gentile Christians to keep the law of Moses in addition to faith in Christ, in order to be saved.


Since we are in the book of Hebrews, I will focus on the persecution from unsaved Jews on believing Jews, however I will give a quick look at the scenario of Jews pressuring Gentile's to keep the law of Moses to be saved.


1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question... 6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,
9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they."
Acts 15:1-3,6-11


Please read all of Acts 15, to get the full story about this huge problem.Now we will look at the other issue of unbelieving Jews,[Like Saul of Tarsus, before he was saved and became the apostle Paul] persecuting the Christian Jewsin order to turn them away from Christ and back to Judaism [man-made religion].


That's where this book of Hebrews comes in, especially starting in Chapter 3.


7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.'
11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.' "
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
15 while it is said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion."
16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses?
17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Hebrews 3:7-19


Here is the key verse's that must be understood, as the writer of the book of Hebrews conveys these powerful truths that lead us to Chapter 10:26-27


Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,


Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;


This is a reference to Jews who turned back to the law of Moses, and away from Christ, and no longer had a sacrifice for sin.

This is reiterated in Chapter 6 -


4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6



This is another reference to Apostasy, whereby someone turns away from The true and living God to serve another.


That is the context that is seen in Hebrews 10:26-27


This is not the case with you.

Have you renounced Christ?

Do you believe He paid the price for your sins?


If you do, then confess your sin to Him and Repent of it, and you will be forgiven.


Remember what He said to Peter -


21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
Matthew 18:21-22


How much more shall your Heavenly Father forgive you.



justpassinthrough

 

[dcontroversal]

If we say that we have no sin we are decieved and the truth is not in us....all sin is by choice....where sin abounds..grace did much more abound......the conflict between the fallen sinful flesh and the non sinning born again spirit is well documented in the bible....sometimes, a lot of times the flesh wins because it is weak.......the spirit is indeed willing.....

 

[Patnubay]

Uh..... who do you know who "unwillingly" sinned?

Romans 7:17-20(NIV)
17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.


James 4:17 (NIV)
17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

Food for thought?

 

[ukok102nak]

:rofl: why dont you put a song of praise first in your heart and soul
:read:
Revelation: 14. 2. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3. And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

let your heart and soul determined if there is sound
of truth in there
And NOT by your ears and thoughts . ...

:smoke: thank you very much :happy:

God bless us all always

 

[wordhelpsme]

Hebrews 10:26 says: "If we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," KJV

Obviously, willful sinners are deplorable to our Creator. (Think of someone accidentally kills someone innocent, not willfully, versus someone who willfully and unrepentantly kills an innocent. We would think most reprehensible.)

There sins are intentional and practiced. They know God's requirements but deliberately disobey them.

This shows no regard for the precious gift through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.