Amillennial theology is in error - (no literal thousand year reign)

[zone]

the House of David. The inhabitants of Jerusalem (c13v1). Somewhere in Scripture, I remember it saying that they will look upon the One they have pierced......

Of course the Shepherd was struck and the sheep was scattered. Yet, I have to ask myself these questions:

has the Day of the Lord came? (c14v1)

Does the LORD now stand on mount Olive which is near Jerusalem (there will be some who will say that He is in the desert. But, do not believe them. Will He not be in God's Holy City of old?). (c14v4)

why do you think he will be in Jerusalem?
He told the woman at the well CLEARLY Jerusalem would not be the place men worship.

John 19:34-37
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced."

i dont know.
you guys can force this all to mean (in reality) that the exhalted Christ will be humiliated.
and God will resume shedding the blood of animals.
i am not going there.
ttyl.

 

[Isdaniel]

so you also are living in a mystery dispensation?
why aren't you currently going to Jerusalem every year to observe the feasts?
and you'll be sacrificing animals as well?

hope you don't live on another continent, because horses are what you will ride into Jerusalem.

the same Jerusalem Jesus Christ Himself said was not the place God would be worshipped.

He never, ever said anything different.

see, the same system of interpretation that says believing Israel never became the church....doesn't understand which Jerusalem dwells in safety.

if Paul....a NT writer (superceding Zechariah, btw which is fulfilled) said this was happening in his day:

Galatians 4
Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.


why do people keep over-riding Paul?


well....the alternative is to show

a) a New Testament narrative which reverses Galatians 4 and John 4 (for ex).
b) that New Jerusalem hovers over the old during the Millennium.

you have no other options.

When will this be fullfilled or has it been fullfilled ?

What are the chariots ?

Nahum 2

King James Version (KJV)

2 He that dasheth in pieces is come up before thy face: keep the munition, watch the way, make thy loins strong, fortify thy power mightily.
2 For the Lord hath turned away the excellency of Jacob, as the excellency of Israel: for the emptiers have emptied them out, and marred their vine branches.
3 The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men are in scarlet: the chariots shall be with flaming torches in the day of his preparation, and the fir trees shall be terribly shaken.
4 The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings.
5 He shall recount his worthies: they shall stumble in their walk; they shall make haste to the wall thereof, and the defence shall be prepared.

 

[cfultz3]

is this in our future?

Zechariah 12:10
"And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

Has the House of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem yet looked upon the One they have pierced? No. Neither has all the nations come up against Jerusalem yet. [Zech 12:2)

John 19:34-37
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced."

What follows after Zech 13:7 in Zech 13:8-9 and Zech 14? Has the third of that city been sealed?

no it's not.

but you have a gap of thousands of years between that chapter, and 13.

The gap is not between Zech 12 and 13. I believe that the thousand years is explained in Zech 14:1 (The Day of the Lord comes). From my understanding, according to Zech 14:7, that Day is not (abs. neg.) a day and a night. And then, in Revelation, I am told that a day is a like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. and again, later on in Revelation, I am told that Christ shall rule a thousand years.

That "Day" in the "Day of the Lord" seems to me to be a time-frame and not a 24 hours day....

Luke 23
23:36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
23:37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.[/QUOTE]

 

[Isdaniel]

why do you think he will be in Jerusalem?
He told the woman at the well CLEARLY Jerusalem would not be the place men worship.

John 19:34-37
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced."

i dont know.
you guys can force this all to mean (in reality) that the exhalted Christ will be humiliated.
and God will resume shedding the blood of animals.
i am not going there.
ttyl.

[h=3]Isaiah 2[/h]King James Version (KJV)

2 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of theLord from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

 

[Isdaniel]

why do you think he will be in Jerusalem?
He told the woman at the well CLEARLY Jerusalem would not be the place men worship.

John 19:34-37
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced."

i dont know.
you guys can force this all to mean (in reality) that the exhalted Christ will be humiliated.
and God will resume shedding the blood of animals.
i am not going there.
ttyl.

[h=3]Joel 3[/h]King James Version (KJV)

3 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

17 So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

 

[cfultz3]

why do you think he will be in Jerusalem?
He told the woman at the well CLEARLY Jerusalem would not be the place men worship.

John 19:34-37
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced."

i dont know.
you guys can force this all to mean (in reality) that the exhalted Christ will be humiliated.
and God will resume shedding the blood of animals.
i am not going there.
ttyl.

I stand corrected. He will stand on Mount Olive which is east of Jerusalem....

I am sorry that you feel I am trying to humiliate Christ all over again. Zone, that hurts. I joined the conversation because I thought we all were seeking to harmonized Scripture.

 

[RuthHannah]

I stand corrected. He will stand on Mount Olive which is east of Jerusalem....

I am sorry that you feel I am trying to humiliate Christ all over again. Zone, that hurts. I joined the conversation because I thought we all were seeking to harmonized Scripture.

Job 19

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

 

[cfultz3]

Job 19

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Amen. And when He is done purifying the Earth of the rebellion, He shall make all things new and THEN shall God descend with the New Jerusalem and live among humans. It is said, "Do come, Lord", and I say, "Do come, Lord".

 

[RuthHannah]

Amen. And when He is done purifying the Earth of the rebellion, He shall make all things new and THEN shall God descend with the New Jerusalem and live among humans. It is said, "Do come, Lord", and I say, "Do come, Lord".

1Corithians 15

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[cfultz3]

1Corithians 15

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

One answer after the next. Truly, the Unction tells us all things.......

 

[Hoffco]

To BradC, I must correct you first post, We are never saved, or born again by faith, OR saved based upon our faith. We are saved by GRACE That produces faith in Christ and good works. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so, your assertion is that Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies which foretold the Messiah.
therefore He is not even Messiah.

1st off. If you want to discuss things. You better start listening to what is said. I am SO SICK of you making claims which I never have said.

2nd. I never said he was not messiah. I said he did not do ALL the things the messiah was prophesied to do in his first coming.

3rd. I tried to show you the difference between the two persons prophesied in the OT. And as usuall, you want off on some thing which did not even pertain to my argument. You argued HALF of what I said, and ignored the other half why is this?

4th. I wrote prophesies concerning two people. Both are Jesus, So your continued saying I do not believe Jesus is this or that (which proves your misunderstanding of what I said) leaves me with no choice but to ask you to respond again. Because nothing you said here refutes what I said, or answers my claims.

i can't really believe i'm having this conversation.

What conversation?

I stated their were two people in the OT prophesies, and the prophesies concerning them were not the same. And that the people in th OT understood this. It was part of the mystery. And you did not discuss this at all. All you did was claim I do not believe Jesus was the messiah WHAT???????????

If your going to make accusations. You are forced to discuss them

 

[Hoffco]

To Zone, You don't see that the prophecy of Zech, 12-14 is yet future,God has never brought all the nations agaist Jerusalem and God has never melted their bodys as with an atomic fision as He will "in that day". "in that day" God will punish Israel for reestablishing the temple worship, two thirds of the nation will die, but then, God will save the remainder of the nation at Jesus' second coming. Please restudy Zech. 12-14. love to all, Hoffco

 

[mpaper345]

There will be a literal 1000 years reign of Christ after God puts down the world that followed the beast.God will leave a 6th of the world and that will be the people that Jesus and the saints rule over.

The world has to go up to Jerusalem year after year to worship Jesus.They will multiply for they are in the flesh.

This is found in Zechariah 14.

Since they followed the beast and took the mark they still have punishment coming but God postponed it for 1000 years.

For people who think that the 1000 years period is not literal but in spirit can someone tell me how Jesus and the saints are ruling the earth when they have no control over the world and the world runs rampant.

The Bible says that when Jesus rules the earth He will rule with an iron rod and there will be peace which we have not seen yet.

 

[Isdaniel]

1st off. If you want to discuss things. You better start listening to what is said. I am SO SICK of you making claims which I never have said.

2nd. I never said he was not messiah. I said he did not do ALL the things the messiah was prophesied to do in his first coming.

3rd. I tried to show you the difference between the two persons prophesied in the OT. And as usuall, you want off on some thing which did not even pertain to my argument. You argued HALF of what I said, and ignored the other half why is this?

4th. I wrote prophesies concerning two people. Both are Jesus, So your continued saying I do not believe Jesus is this or that (which proves your misunderstanding of what I said) leaves me with no choice but to ask you to respond again. Because nothing you said here refutes what I said, or answers my claims.



What conversation?

I stated their were two people in the OT prophesies, and the prophesies concerning them were not the same. And that the people in th OT understood this. It was part of the mystery. And you did not discuss this at all. All you did was claim I do not believe Jesus was the messiah WHAT???????????

If your going to make accusations. You are forced to discuss them

Both of you just craks me up

 

[Isdaniel]

There will be a literal 1000 years reign of Christ after God puts down the world that followed the beast.God will leave a 6th of the world and that will be the people that Jesus and the saints rule over.

The world has to go up to Jerusalem year after year to worship Jesus.They will multiply for they are in the flesh.

This is found in Zechariah 14.

Since they followed the beast and took the mark they still have punishment coming but God postponed it for 1000 years.

For people who think that the 1000 years period is not literal but in spirit can someone tell me how Jesus and the saints are ruling the earth when they have no control over the world and the world runs rampant.

The Bible says that when Jesus rules the earth He will rule with an iron rod and there will be peace which we have not seen yet.

Isaiah 65
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.

 

[zone]

1st off. If you want to discuss things. You better start listening to what is said. I am SO SICK of you making claims which I never have said.

2nd. I never said he was not messiah. I said he did not do ALL the things the messiah was prophesied to do in his first coming.

3rd. I tried to show you the difference between the two persons prophesied in the OT. And as usuall, you want off on some thing which did not even pertain to my argument. You argued HALF of what I said, and ignored the other half why is this?

4th. I wrote prophesies concerning two people. Both are Jesus, So your continued saying I do not believe Jesus is this or that (which proves your misunderstanding of what I said) leaves me with no choice but to ask you to respond again. Because nothing you said here refutes what I said, or answers my claims.



What conversation?

I stated their were two people in the OT prophesies, and the prophesies concerning them were not the same. And that the people in th OT understood this. It was part of the mystery. And you did not discuss this at all. All you did was claim I do not believe Jesus was the messiah WHAT???????????

If your going to make accusations. You are forced to discuss them

well EG...its a little hard to sort out what you're saying, since you scoff at Christ being King now.
which means He is not Priest now either.

so, you say you (today) can see him having come as the suffering servant AND messiah..but the Bible didn't predict it?
or God blinded everybody to trick satan.

but you don't explain how the Jewish remnant church was born and launched out.

...

so you don't deny Jesus is the Messiah/Savior, but you do deny He is The King.

but you say that He as The Most Holy, didn't accomplish the things listed in Daniel 9 - for Israel (which you can't fathom means He didn't do it for you either).

because some people who identify as Jews say no thanks to Christ, you say Daniel's 70th week isn't fulfilled.
but that is the passage which proves He would come and did come as Messiah.

so, though you say you don't deny He is Messiah - you actually in practice do.
by cutting His saving work OUT of the 7 years determined for it By God, for the city and daniel's people.

see, if His work was accomplished in 70th week FOR YOU, it was for them too.

that's pretty basic stuff.

...

anyway, your theory can't hold up because it's faulty....so, you sort it out.
it's a MESS.

 

[zone]

There will be a literal 1000 years reign of Christ after God puts down the world that followed the beast.God will leave a 6th of the world and that will be the people that Jesus and the saints rule over.

The world has to go up to Jerusalem year after year to worship Jesus.They will multiply for they are in the flesh.

This is found in Zechariah 14.

Since they followed the beast and took the mark they still have punishment coming but God postponed it for 1000 years.

For people who think that the 1000 years period is not literal but in spirit can someone tell me how Jesus and the saints are ruling the earth when they have no control over the world and the world runs rampant.

The Bible says that when Jesus rules the earth He will rule with an iron rod and there will be peace which we have not seen yet.

hey i have in idea.
let's use the New Testament, and let's actually document our storyline.

John 4:21
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, shall ye worship the Father.

when is this going to happen?
someone please let me know....is this at the end of the 1,000 years?

 

[RuthHannah]

hey i have in idea.
let's use the New Testament, and let's actually document our storyline.

John 4:21
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, shall ye worship the Father.

when is this going to happen?
someone please let me know....is this at the end of the 1,000 years?

what is 70 ad all about ?

 

[zone]

Has the House of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem yet looked upon the One they have pierced? No.

do you mean the Jewish State in the Middle East today?
are you saying Jews living over there today crucified Jesus?
THEY pierced Him?
not clear.

or are you asking about the 12 Tribes who returned to Jerusalem in time for Jesus Christ's appearing?
the ones Jesus said He came to save.
remember? the lost sheep of israel?

because that's what Zech 12 is referring to.
the same House of David Peter preached to at Pentecost.
when the spirit of grace and supplications was poured out.
the very same generation (crowd) that cried Crucify Him.

those ones who pierced Him.
Peter said it. Acts 2.
but that can be tough navigating also, since we have another 2000+ year gap in that narrative.

if i added all the gaps (which don't line up btw), we'd have a great surprise.

what i would love anyone to do...is list all the promises to Israel they believe God DID NOT keep.