Are Christians obligated to tithe?

[JesusLives]

Each one of us can twist and turn scripture to read anyway we want it to....after all we have to back up our points right. Well I will be the first to admit that I am a selfish Blond and many weeks when the offering plate went by my obligatory $1.00 hit the plate. When times were tight I rationalized not paying tithe - I mean I had a child to feed.... If I want a purse I find a way to buy it. The house is decorated to the top and I have more stuff than I know what to do with.....just ask my new husband who would probably like to trash 3/4 of it.....

My point is for my selfish self I have found a way to have what I want, so why do we have to argue about giving back money to God whether it be tithes or offerings. Are we really all that selfish?

From my own experience my finances have run smoother when I was regularly giving to God than when I wasn't. It seemed like every time I turned around something was breaking down or money just evaporated, but when I was tithing and giving to God all I got to say is that my 1997 car ran on prayer for 4 years before it died and when it did bite the dust I had money to replace it. This is all thanks to God. I have tested God as he asked us to do in Malachi 3 and I have received blessings beyond what I ever thought I deserved.

Ask yourself a question.....How much to you put in the plate when it is passed? 1, 5, 10, 20, or more? Is it with a thankful heart or a grudging one? Churches need funds to keep the doors open, missionaries still need to eat, the gospel still needs to go to the whole world. Shame on me and shame on you for being so selfish. God gave His all to us and what do we give to Him?

 

[posthuman]

From my own experience my finances have run smoother when I was regularly giving to God than when I wasn't. It seemed like every time I turned around something was breaking down or money just evaporated, but when I was tithing and giving to God all I got to say is that my 1997 car ran on prayer for 4 years before it died and when it did bite the dust I had money to replace it. This is all thanks to God. I have tested God as he asked us to do in Malachi 3 and I have received blessings beyond what I ever thought I deserved.

Ask yourself a question.....How much to you put in the plate when it is passed? 1, 5, 10, 20, or more? Is it with a thankful heart or a grudging one? Churches need funds to keep the doors open, missionaries still need to eat, the gospel still needs to go to the whole world. Shame on me and shame on you for being so selfish. God gave His all to us and what do we give to Him?

↑
i don't need a "law" to make me give of what is given to me, i need this!

 

[Sirk]

If all who claim to be christians actually tithed (gave 10%) to their local church, I would bet that poverty and debt throughout the world would be a memory.

 

[Reborn]

Christians are to seek and love the Lord.
We are to love our fellow brothers and sisters....which means visiting Mom, because she loves to cook for us....encouraging others...stopping to help someone change their flat tire.

Its not about defending our doctrines.

Loving the Lord and people is the first step.....
Giving freely comes naturally when you do these first.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

What I think is happening is many Christians feel they are exempt from the tithe based on Paul's request of Christians living around Corinth, amid general prosperity among mostly Gentiles to take up a special offering for the great needs of saints in Jerusalem who were heavily persecuted. Paul picked on the wealthiest population of Christians for that one-time charity, the believers setting by in store until Paul got and distributed it. None of that had to do with keeping up Church infrastructure, but to feed the poor and hungry that were being robbed by the Jews, even their pastor James, brother of Jesus, assassinated by sword.

Malachi took the issue of tithing to a new level, writing things Moses didn't declare, giving a promise to tithers. There were two very distinct ministries in the Old Testament, that of Moses and the commandments, and that of the prophets who warned of rebellion against God, but bridging a huge gap between those times and ours.

It is a "strawman argument" to oppose tithing because it was commanded in the law. It existed before the law, and after, by way of the prophets and Jesus and the apostles.

As a result of confusing the ministry of the prophets, and taking NT verses out of context some folks today feel free to make up their own doctrines concerning where their money goes in the Kingdom of Heaven. I persist about this because it is very evident that while a tiny percent of Americans tithe, our economy remains on very shaky ground regardless of all the "solutions". As long as America robs God, there will be no national blessing on "gifts" that don't pay the Kingdom bills. The money doesn't float down from Heaven like manna did every morning. It isn't the fruit of a "money tree".

 

[Reborn]

We are to give freely.
Over and over , Jesus states this.
Giving freely not only covers tithing but goes beyond it.....limiting it to a percentage?......or giving to a certain group?....sorry, is not really giving freely is it

Giving as much as we can represents our walk with Him......
.......since the cross it has never been about how much we give.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

We are to give freely.
Over and over , Jesus states this.
Giving freely not only covers tithing but goes beyond it.....limiting it to a percentage?......or giving to a certain group?....sorry, is not really giving freely is it

Giving as much as we can represents our walk with Him......
.......since the cross it has never been about how much we give.

I agree, starting with the tithe. The reason for tithes is so that believers can be organized effectively, being able to commit to works no individual could accomplish. Like any corporation it is folly to set off on any project without a budget. That goes for newly weds, for Apple Corp, to any church with a house of worship.
Luke 14:26-30 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

The principle of the parable is applicable to building a structure, used to caution followers to count the cost, not later dropping out when the cost gets too high, putting his cause to shame.

So Mr. Christian decides to go knocking on doors, seeing his whole neighborhood of 500 become believers. What to do with them? They need discipleship. All need to assemble to worship (Heb 10). Anyone with a house big enough? No? So what? Do you leave it at that? Do you tell them try to find a church? Which church? How can a place to assemble be kept if there is no fund to rely upon to provide it?

That's why it works best for a church congregation to go out to save sinners, two by two, sometimes one on one, get them into the Word, disciple them. It takes resources, beginning with workers going forth, coordination of efforts, classrooms or home study groups, a church "home" if the homes involved can't deal with however many people involved. It takes money. Money in an organization requires a budget, which in turn requires a reliable funding procedure. God's way is for the ministry to be funded with each member's commitment and their tithes. Then offerings add blessings above that promised to tithers.

But when the budget fails due to lack of support, poor planning, neglect, the "tower" leans, then falls to the shame.of many.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

God's Church never falls. Your argument fails.

If they are saved, the Spirit will speak to their hearts that there is a need and they will give accordingly. Not a dictated amount, but according to their ability.

And if the "tower" falls, then it was never God's to begin with.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

It is true that the Levites who recieved tithes which were not a part of the high priesthood...did also give a required ten percent to the high priesthood.
This does not change the fact that the high priesthood does not tithe to the high priesthood.
So...if you believe you do not have access to the holiest of all, then by all means tithe and keep 90 percent, cause it's your reward.
I suppose that would be something like only being baptized by John the baptist.

Not judging...just saying that God is the inheritance of the high priesthood, and I am so glad to give all for the one who died for me and gave me such access to the holiest of all continually...not once a year.

 

[Jason0047]

I honestly hate money. Why do I say this because if you were to read 1 Timothy chapter 6 and be honest with yourself, you would realize that being rich or chasing after riches is not a possibility for a true believer. So the whole concept of giving so you can be blessed more financially works against you. Yes, it is true, money is a necessary evil to survive in this life; But we have to understand there are different ways we can give, though. Time can also be viewed as money. For with a job, you trade your hours for dollars. Paul labored so as not to charge for the gospel. Think about that. Paul worked as a tentmaker so as not to charge money for the gospel. Is your Pastor doing that? I doubt it. Giving is not a law. Giving can take many forms. Giving of your time. Praying for others. Helping others. Being kind to others. Loving others. Jesus said to love and have mercy and not to just tithe (Which the pharisees were wrongfully doing). So if you tithe and do not love, you are not truly going to be blessed. It is not a matter of do's and don'ts on this point. It is a matter of: "Is your heart right with God?" If your heart is right with the Lord, then you will give in such a way as the Lord directs you. Not because you are obligated to give, but because you are happy to give because you are joyful in your service to God. You are changed and touched by God because you truly repented of your sinful old ways. You are born again. A new person. Changed. But if you are guilt tripped into providing for a church, then you are going against God's Word. Pure and simple. Giving is done because you want to give because you are changed spiritually. No spiritual change and there is going to be no giving whatsoever. Everything we have is owned by God. It is a matter of finding ways to use all of what you have for God's glory and purpose. In other words, lets say I wanted to start a ministry business. Would it be wrong to devote all my money to that focus for a while instead of giving my money to a church or mission group? What if I wanted to focus on giving my money to help my family and the poor for a while? Is God going to cast me into the Lake of Fire for not giving to the church down the street? No, of course not. If you are truly a real believer, the gospel (i.e. Telling others about the salvation of Jesus) will never be far from your focus within your life. Loving others will never stop in your life. This can take form into giving financially to others and sometimes this can take form in doing other types of things for God and others. For did Paul tithe? Did the thief on the cross need to tithe before being saved? For there is no Condemnation who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. If your focus is always God, God, God, God every second of every day, what do you think you are going to do with your money? Think about it.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Will they be cursed if they don't?

Please provide biblical support for your answer.

If they are going to tithe, there are at least 3. Levitical tithe, Festival Tithe, and Poor tithe. It's well over 20%.

That's what a good Bible dictionary will reveal.

Not the 10% bologna preached and demanded based in large part on Malachi 3:10.

Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7

How often to tithing proponents quote Lev 27:32-33?

 

[Jason0047]

Good website to check out.

No More Tithing

 

[RickyZ]

Jesus said to love and have mercy and not to just tithe (Which the pharisees were wrongfully doing). So if you tithe and do not love, you are not truly going to be blessed.

That's a very important thing to understand. It's like fasting and prayer, without the prayer you're just starving. And if you give of your money but not of your heart your money is worthless to you. No matter what percentage you give.

 

[Ukorin]

I agree, starting with the tithe. The reason for tithes is so that believers can be organized effectively, being able to commit to works no individual could accomplish. Like any corporation it is folly to set off on any project without a budget. That goes for newly weds, for Apple Corp, to any church with a house of worship.
Luke 14:26-30 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

The principle of the parable is applicable to building a structure, used to caution followers to count the cost, not later dropping out when the cost gets too high, putting his cause to shame.

So Mr. Christian decides to go knocking on doors, seeing his whole neighborhood of 500 become believers. What to do with them? They need discipleship. All need to assemble to worship (Heb 10). Anyone with a house big enough? No? So what? Do you leave it at that? Do you tell them try to find a church? Which church? How can a place to assemble be kept if there is no fund to rely upon to provide it?

That's why it works best for a church congregation to go out to save sinners, two by two, sometimes one on one, get them into the Word, disciple them. It takes resources, beginning with workers going forth, coordination of efforts, classrooms or home study groups, a church "home" if the homes involved can't deal with however many people involved. It takes money. Money in an organization requires a budget, which in turn requires a reliable funding procedure. God's way is for the ministry to be funded with each member's commitment and their tithes. Then offerings add blessings above that promised to tithers.

But when the budget fails due to lack of support, poor planning, neglect, the "tower" leans, then falls to the shame.of many.

Tithe does not solve that problem... real generosity without Law Letter solves that problem.
Who do we tithe to? Ourselves?!
Foolishness!
We give to the need, in accordance to the need, and in accordance to what we have, and the grace that we have received.

The shame of unfinanced buildings is to tithe mentality!! A congregation taught loving generosity does not see such nonsense.

 

[clittle]

Each one of us can twist and turn scripture to read anyway we want it to....after all we have to back up our points right. Well I will be the first to admit that I am a selfish Blond and many weeks when the offering plate went by my obligatory $1.00 hit the plate. When times were tight I rationalized not paying tithe - I mean I had a child to feed.... If I want a purse I find a way to buy it. The house is decorated to the top and I have more stuff than I know what to do with.....just ask my new husband who would probably like to trash 3/4 of it.....

My point is for my selfish self I have found a way to have what I want, so why do we have to argue about giving back money to God whether it be tithes or offerings. Are we really all that selfish?

From my own experience my finances have run smoother when I was regularly giving to God than when I wasn't. It seemed like every time I turned around something was breaking down or money just evaporated, but when I was tithing and giving to God all I got to say is that my 1997 car ran on prayer for 4 years before it died and when it did bite the dust I had money to replace it. This is all thanks to God. I have tested God as he asked us to do in Malachi 3 and I have received blessings beyond what I ever thought I deserved.

Ask yourself a question.....How much to you put in the plate when it is passed? 1, 5, 10, 20, or more? Is it with a thankful heart or a grudging one? Churches need funds to keep the doors open, missionaries still need to eat, the gospel still needs to go to the whole world. Shame on me and shame on you for being so selfish. God gave His all to us and what do we give to Him?

well it sounds like after 4 years of saving knowing your car was going to break down I would be surprised if you didn't have money to replace it.
I'm not saying God does not look out for our needs it he most certainly does not do it based on the old covenant laws which involve the entire temple system and Levites.
have you actually read the entire book of Malachi?
its not speaking to Gentiles who had not yet been brought near to God through the New Covenant. it was warning rulers of Israel under the old system. but it seems no matter how many times people are told this it seems they have listened to prosperity preachers who scratch itching ears.
I don't speak that part to you personally but that's really what this is about.

if you want to be under the law tithing and the Levitical priesthood, you must be under all of the law. you can't just pick and choose and revise the laws for the 21st and 22nd centuries
which means you're not under the New Covenant.

 

[4enlightment]

Will they be cursed if they don't?

Please provide biblical support for your answer.

Yes, the priest will put a curse on them for not giving it to them.

 

[Jeff_56]

it will take more than biblical support in this forum. (see all the various posts already!?)

many times they are cursed and still remaining under a/the curse whether they tithe or not doesn't matter.

they don't even know they are cursed. (i guess that's a sure sign deception is and has been working many generations)

oh, not all. but most, by far, yes, most.

Will they be cursed if they don't?

Please provide biblical support for your answer.

 

[Jeff_56]

so? if they are trusting a priest in a manmade religion they are under god's curse all their life anyway.
even the blessing or prayer of a priest (in 'christendom') is always accursed in god's sight. tithing won't help nor hurt when one is already and remaining dead!

Yes, the priest will put a curse on them for not giving it to them.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

God's Church never falls. Your argument fails.

If they are saved, the Spirit will speak to their hearts that there is a need and they will give accordingly. Not a dictated amount, but according to their ability.

And if the "tower" falls, then it was never God's to begin with.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Remember 7,000 churches a year close down due to lack of Christians obeying the Lord. A small percentage of the people affected have been tithers, endeavoring to keep a congregation together.

In many places on earth he Church is being evicted, buildings blown up or burned down, congregations slaughtered and scattered by religious radicals swinging machetes. It should be obvious God has not promised to preserve everything "Christian", but the body of Christ does remain, living by faith and hope each member will finish the race. Meanwhile Jesus has not removed his warning of persecution, which includes deadly results. For whatever reason the "tower" falls, it doesn't mean God was never part of it. It can mean the youth grew up and moved to find a career, while the elders die away, leaving none there to have jobs to keep a "tower" maintained. Men build church monuments to worship in without having a New Testament scripture authorizing that. It's one of those things that isn't prohibited.

God entered tabernacles of men in the Bible, but even with Solomon's Temple he moved out due to national sin, then let the "tower" fall, the people taken in slavery. We can't say God wasn't a part of it. The same thing happened with the Jerusalem temple in 70AD, well after God stopped associating with it.

Consider that in the early centuries of the Church there was a horrific slaughter of Christians, even James, half brother of Jesus, the pastor of the highly persecuted church in Jerusalem assassinated by sword. Perhaps a study of Church martyrs is in order. Literally all the original churches Paul established were destroyed, but not before the body of Christ successfully spread the gospel beyond man's power to exterminate all believers.

We have a lot of veterans back home from Iraq and Afghanistan who spent much time getting to know the people, especially the occasional Christians. They have been very brave witnesses for Christ, pouring their scarce wealth into houses of worship, though generally very poor because of persecution, resembling the first century Church, most not able to build anything. Today their persecutors have exterminated practically all in half the country who didn't flee Iraq. What actual church buildings that were there are gone. So you think that failing to remain means God wasn't in it? Do you know that the first century Church occupied areas that Muslims took for themselves?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

We are to give freely.
Over and over , Jesus states this.
Giving freely not only covers tithing but goes beyond it.....limiting it to a percentage?......or giving to a certain group?....sorry, is not really giving freely is it

Giving as much as we can represents our walk with Him......
.......since the cross it has never been about how much we give.

Yes, certainly we are not under commandment of law to tithe or give offerings, but to freely do so out of love of neighbor, and honor of our Lord.
I have not met a tither that doesn't give well beyond 10% in special offerings to their church or to other ministries. People that give freely tend to be generous well past the IRS limit of charitable giving. All of that desire is one of those things God writes upon a believer's heart, to have compassion, to care for others, to invest in a house of worship that is inviting to whosoever comes where they can experience praise and worship, discipleship, edification, a manifestation of the Lord among us.....

It ought not be such a contentious matter. I understood well when a pastor had me come up to the pulpit, handing me a dollar with one hand, the other hand palm up. "I will keep doing that, but you put a dime back into my hand." I held his stack of dollars, he my change. I then realized what a wonderful economic system God offers. I keep 90%. It has been easy to adjust our personal budget to not miss that 10%, while doing wonders with our part instead of barely scraping by week to week. We've entered into blessings ever since.

God won't punish anyone for not "doing their share". Someone that gives much is blessed much by promise, while those that give little when they could do a lot more can expect little blessing. If yours is the "widow's mite" offering (her last pennies), then God can bless much more than those giving 90%.

Mark 12:41-44 (KJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
[SUP]42 [/SUP] And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
[SUP]43 [/SUP] And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
[SUP]44 [/SUP] For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

After hearing that preached many years ago I've been a member of each church's Men's Ministry. We're hunting for poor widows, and those who are vulnerable to scams. I couldn't roof a widow's house alone, but together we can do it in one day. We might rebuild a widow's porch, or change out her water heater. I've learned to do every task a home requires. When each job is finished we pray with the widow, glorify God, then divide up the materials cost as each man is able to bear. All are already tithers.