Are the Scriptures plain to all Christians that read them?

[NiceneChristian]

it is kind of ironic to be posting scripture to support the claim that not everyone can properly interpret scripture...

but it does show that even people who do not agree with 'sola scriptura' unconsciously acknowledge scripture as the ultimate authority...

The thread here is talking about the interpretations of the Bible. The Bible can be interpreted in many many ways, that is why we need men who have bee specially ordained in order to teach us the real meanings contained in it. This by far does not mean that we ourselves cannot read the Bible for ourselves and obtain wisdom for ourselves, it just means that we must not be wise in ourselves so that we end up corrupting others by commending ourselves as infallible teachers, " For we are not as the rest, corrupting the word of God;" 2Corinthians 2:17

The Bible is very plain and easy to understand in some passages, but most others are not so, and so we need teachers to tell us what they really mean. We must have people who are in the same rank as the Apostles, people who have had Christ open their minds to understand the Scriptures, "And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures." Luke 24:45 For we do not commend ourselves by believing that we have the infallible understanding of them

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

The thread here is talking about the interpretations of the Bible. The Bible can be interpreted in many many ways, that is why we need men who have bee specially ordained in order to teach us the real meanings contained in it. This by far does not mean that we ourselves cannot read the Bible for ourselves and obtain wisdom for ourselves, it just means that we must not be wise in ourselves so that we end up corrupting others by commending ourselves as infallible teachers, " For we are not as the rest, corrupting the word of God;" 2Corinthians 2:17

The Bible is very plain and easy to understand in some passages, but most others are not so, and so we need teachers to tell us what they really mean. We must have people who are in the same rank as the Apostles, people who have had Christ open their minds to understand the Scriptures, "And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures." Luke 24:45 For we do not commend ourselves by believing that we have the infallible understanding of them

do you have to be a priest for christ to open your mind to understand the scriptures? the original post seems to be trying to imply that it comes with the title and only with the title

 

[zone]

No, it isn't, because that is NOT what he meant.


...not sure why you say that. Jesus Christ accomplished his Father's will perfectly. One time.


I believe that scripture is an historical record.

Anyway, the subject of this thread is "Are the Scriptures plain to all Christians that read them?"

Obviously, the answer is no.

the answer is yes, they are.

the fact that an entire group of believers think Paul didn't mean completed canon, and use the same mantra means they have not read THEMSELVES, they have listened to someone TELL them thats what he meant.

this ALSO comes back to empirical evidence (common sense):

is anyone walking around today from church to church claiming to have seen the Risen Christ, actually manifesting the ability to raise the dead, call a blinding mist on someone, have people healed by their shadows and writing authoritative canon?

no.

speaking languages they never learned while leaving Jerusalem after having celeberated Pentecost?

uh.....no.

 

[shroom2]

the answer is yes, they are.

the fact that an entire group of believers think Paul didn't mean completed canon, and use the same mantra means they have not read THEMSELVES, they have listened to someone TELL them thats what he meant.

I don't know about everyone, but I can read it for myself.

this ALSO comes back to empirical evidence (common sense):

is anyone walking around today from church to church claiming to have seen the Risen Christ, actually manifesting the ability to raise the dead, call a blinding mist on someone, have people healed by their shadows and writing authoritative canon?

no.

Where do you get the idea apostles today are supposed to write "authoritative canon"? They aren't. I have never heard of anyone seeing Christ, but I do know of people who have been healed.

speaking languages they never learned while leaving Jerusalem after having celeberated Pentecost?

uh.....no.

The people in Acts 10, 19, and the apostle Paul were not "leaving Jerusalem after pentecost" when they spoke in tongues. They had just gotten born again. It was the norm for Christians to speak in tongues. It should be the norm today.

 

[zone]

I don't know about everyone, but I can read it for myself.


Where do you get the idea apostles today are supposed to write "authoritative canon"? They aren't. I have never heard of anyone seeing Christ, but I do know of people who have been healed.


The people in Acts 10, 19, and the apostle Paul were not "leaving Jerusalem after pentecost" when they spoke in tongues. They had just gotten born again. It was the norm for Christians to speak in tongues. It should be the norm today.

wow.
wow

tongues? as in pagan gibbering?
whatever for?

men from every nation on earth (known world....a sampling of) had GATHERED from all nations to Jerusalem AT PENTECOST.

they heard the Gospel in their own languages, were amazed...and then what?

WENT HOME AND TOLD IT! please read Acts to see what nations they came from and what languages they HEARD the gospel in. they are REAL actual human languages, listed carefully so we can understand what happened.

its really EASY. just read it.

 

[zone]

wow.
wow

tongues? as in pagan gibbering?
whatever for?

men from every nation on earth (known world....a sampling of) had GATHERED from all nations to Jerusalem AT PENTECOST.

they heard the Gospel in their own languages, were amazed...and then what?

WENT HOME AND TOLD IT! please read Acts to see what nations they came from and what languages they HEARD the gospel in. they are REAL actual human languages, listed carefully so we can understand what happened.

its really EASY. just read it.

Acts 2
5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

see?

do you see

1) the nations they came from
2) they heard in their native language?

is this hard...at all?

really....is it hard to read this?

can anyone else read what this says? ANYONE?

am i dreaming this? is this actually impossible to read?

 

[NiceneChristian]

do you have to be a priest for christ to open your mind to understand the scriptures? the original post seems to be trying to imply that it comes with the title and only with the title

No, not necessarily, but it is an apostolic command for there to be rulers over us who instruct us in the Lord.
1Thessalonians 5:12 And we request of you, brothers, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and instruct you,
and to regard them beyond all measure in love, because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves.

This has very much to do with teaching, not with simple reading of Scriptures. Its not in the reading of Scriptures that counts, its in the understanding of them. Because not many should be teachers (James 3:1) and not all are teachers (1 Cor 12:29), only a select few who are commended by the Lord.

 

[zone]

No, not necessarily, but it is an apostolic command for there to be rulers over us who instruct us in the Lord.
1Thessalonians 5:12 And we request of you, brothers, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and instruct you,
and to regard them beyond all measure in love, because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves.

This has very much to do with teaching, not with simple reading of Scriptures. Its not in the reading of Scriptures that counts, its in the understanding of them. Because not many should be teachers (James 3:1) and not all are teachers (1 Cor 12:29), only a select few who are commended by the Lord.

but.....i learn from my teachers.
Reformed men.

and? does that not mean i have actually learned something?
they teach us to understand and read for ourselves as well. nothing hidden. no guy to go to so we're allowed to know stuff.

we're allowed to handle the scriptures. encouraged to do so.
no incense and 5 senses stuff required. listening and study.

 

[Abiding]

do you have to be a priest for christ to open your mind to understand the scriptures? the original post seems to be trying to imply that it comes with the title and only with the title

Well if so you in like flynn:

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, in order that you may proclaim the mighty acts of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
(1 Peter 2:9)

"And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you, but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him" 1John 2:27

but you knew that.

 

[Abiding]

does that justify not being taught? not at all. Teachers and pastors are an intended blessing not a hindrance.
the body of believers are also an added blessing each having a gift to share.

 

[AnandaHya]

Its not placing a man before us and God to believe that gifted teachers are needed to "shepherd the flock of God". Its commanded by the Holy Spirit for us to follow the teachers an pastors who are set over us.


1Peter 5:1 The elders who are among you I exhort, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed;
2 shepherd the flock of God among you, overseeing not by compulsion, but rather willingly, not in fondness for dishonest gain, but rather eagerly;
3 nor as being masters over the flock under you, but rather being examples to the flock.


if the pastor acts as an EXAMPLE and not a Master than I have no issue with the pastor for they are following God's bibilical commands. but to often MEN claiming to be annointed pastors of God are just liars seeking power and money. If a man demands I obey him instead of pointing out that I should obey God, then I know he is not from God


Not all have the gift of teaching. This simply means that not all have the ability to interpret Scriptures properly by the Holy Spirit.
No all have the ability to interpert Scriptures properly by the holy Spirit if that is what God requires of them for God gives all that is need for a person to do the good works He created them for. there is no barrier between them and the Bible. the gift of teaching is that they are able to help others divide truth from lies and guide them into learning things that will equip them in their personal ministry and help them grow into maturity in Christ. Not all have the patience or wisdom to be teachers.

For if what you are saying is true, then why are there over 28,000 Protestant denominations today? Is division a work of the Holy Spirit - certainly not. This is a work of error, of the spirit of error. And those who appoint themselves as teachers and infallible interpreters, just because they believe that they have the "Holy Spirit" to help them interpret it, these are self deceived and conceited. 2 Corinthians 10:18 "For not he who commends himself is approved, but he whom the Lord commends."

you act like Jesus never said He would bring a SWORD to DIVIDE.

you spoke of it yourself, they appoint themselves as teachers and infallible interperters. if anyone tells you they are infallible then they lie and claim an aspect of the Godhead that God did not endow on anyone except Jesus Himself.

that you attempt to say OC is "better" than all other is no different. it makes the OC just like those teachers you so despise. No church is infallible except the one God builds in Heaven out of the living stones of the saints who have been washed clean by the blood of the lamb.

The OC is made of fallible men and you can find wolves among the sheep even there. the tares grow with the wheat until the great harvest.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Maybe NO ONE understands the scriptures!!!

Just thought I'd chime in.

 

[shroom2]

wow.
wow

tongues?

Yes.

as in pagan gibbering?

No. Tongues as described in God's word.

whatever for?

To build ourselves up spiritually:
1 Cor 14:4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;...
Jude 20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Because God wants us to:
1 Cor 14:5) I would that ye all spake with tongues,...
1 Cor 14:15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:
1 Cor 14:18) I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

To pray in the spirit:
1 Cor 14:14) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth,

To give thanks well:
1 Cor 14:17) For thou verily givest thanks well,...

There are more...

men from every nation on earth (known world....a sampling of) had GATHERED from all nations to Jerusalem AT PENTECOST.

they heard the Gospel in their own languages, were amazed...and then what?

WENT HOME AND TOLD IT! please read Acts to see what nations they came from and what languages they HEARD the gospel in. they are REAL actual human languages, listed carefully so we can understand what happened.

Yes, at the initial outpouring of holy spirit, God underscored what happened by causing the apostles to speak languages that were understood by those present. It is not promised that every time someone speaks in tongues the words spoken will be understood by others present. It fact, it says the opposite:

1 Cor 14:16) Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

Tongues will be in a language of men or angels (1 Cor 13:1).

its really EASY. just read it.

Yes. Please do.

 

[Scotth1960]

All Christians should have the HOLY SPIRIT which gives them Wisdom and Holiness to ALL who seek and pray faithfully with patience and perservance. there is only ONE mediator between God and Man and that is Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. To place any MAN between God and His Children is wrong.
Dear AnandaHya. That is wrong. There is one mediator between God and man: the Man Jesus Christ. There are many intercessors through Jesus Christ: the Ever-Virgin Mary and all of the Saints. Some man (men) must tell us what the Scriptures mean (cf. Acts 8:30-31). We do not read the Scriptures (all) on our own; we all follow some tradition by which we interpret the Scriptures. The question is: is our tradition the Tradition of God, from Christ and His Apostles through Apostolic Succession (of Church bishops), or is it man-made tradition(s) of men?
In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington



Teachers and pastors are to be respected as Elders but they are to treat the younger Christians not as sons or daughters but brothers and sisters.

read this verse it says if you lack wisdom not to seek out a man to teach you but to PRAY TO GOD who will provide abundantly.

James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

 

[rainacorn]

God is not the author of confusion.

 

[Rosewater]

"Question II. Are the Scriptures plain to all Christians that read them?

Self evident, don't you think?

 

[zone]

That is wrong. There is one mediator between God and man: the Man Jesus Christ. There are many intercessors through Jesus Christ: the Ever-Virgin Mary and all of the Saints. Some man (men) must tell us what the Scriptures mean (cf. Acts 8:30-31). We do not read the Scriptures (all) on our own; we all follow some tradition by which we interpret the Scriptures. The question is: is our tradition the Tradition of God, from Christ and His Apostles through Apostolic Succession (of Church bishops), or is it man-made tradition(s) of men?
In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington.

this why i am not EO, and why the EO is not THE church.

 

[shroom2]

To place any MAN between God and His Children is wrong.

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[Nalu]

YES THEY ARE

Yes they are.

 

[NiceneChristian]

you act like Jesus never said He would bring a SWORD to DIVIDE.

Jesus was talking about contentions between households which do not believe, not about Christians, for the command of the Lord is not that we be divided; this is a work of the spirit of lies, the devil himself.

you spoke of it yourself, they appoint themselves as teachers and infallible interperters. if anyone tells you they are infallible then they lie and claim an aspect of the Godhead that God did not endow on anyone except Jesus Himself.

As a Church on the whole, we do not claim that any man is infallible other wise we would be Roman Catholic (with the Pope), but since we are not, we do not believe in any man but in the collaboration of men. It is through a total consensus of Christian teachers that the doctrines and teachings of the Christian Faith can be established. This occurred from the years of 325 to 787 AD, when the 7 Holy Ecumenical Councils were held.

that you attempt to say OC is "better" than all other is no different. it makes the OC just like those teachers you so despise. No church is infallible except the one God builds in Heaven out of the living stones of the saints who have been washed clean by the blood of the lamb.

The OC is made of fallible men and you can find wolves among the sheep even there. the tares grow with the wheat until the great harvest.

For you to say that the OC is made of fallible men is like for me to say that the Bible was written by fallible men. The Bible was indeed written by men, as the Prophets and Apostles were all men, so why should we degrade the status of holy men of God? Soon enough, you'll be degrading the humanity of Jesus Christ and fall into heresy if you don't watch it. You''ll be thinking, "Jesus was not man, he was only God, for man is fallible". Thus, you would be degrading what needs not to be degraded, and fall into error.