Tithing is an Old Testement law, it is not a New Testament practice and the early Church did not tithe. Nearly all the money that was given by Christians in the early Church was given to help the poor, widows, orphans and strangers, it was not used for building large Churches (or the upkeep of them), paying pastors/teachers a wage, evangelism or anything else that is generally done by the Church today, also note, it was the Deacons who had the responsibility for the finances of the local church, not the pastor/teacher/elder/overseer (who had the spiritual oversight), or any other ministry listed in Eph 4v11. Acts 6v1-7, 1Tim 3v8-13.
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[SUP]Mark 12
41 [/SUP]And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
[SUP]44 [/SUP]For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
1And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
Seems that Jesus is watching the offering plate and how it is given. We are in this world but not of it. It takes money to operate in this world.
1 Corinthians 9
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
41 [/SUP]And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
[SUP]44 [/SUP]For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
1And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
Seems that Jesus is watching the offering plate and how it is given. We are in this world but not of it. It takes money to operate in this world.
1 Corinthians 9
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
cdavid,
Romans 2:12
All who sinapart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin underthe law will be judged by the law.
This istalking about the ten commandments let alone all 314 of them includingceremonial laws
Romans 2:13
For it isnot those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is thosewho obey the law who will be declared righteous
Do you hearthe Law, so do you obey it all 100% of the time
Romans 2:15
They showthat the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciencesalso bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at othertimes even defending them.)
don't we allpretty much do this we have our reasons and either excuse ourselves or do not,are we not working for our salvation in this way trying to obey which is a goodwill worship, what benefit to God is this type of worship
Romans 2:17
[The Jewsand the Law] Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law andboast in God;
Romans 2:18
if you knowhis will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law;
Romans 2:20
aninstructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have inthe law the embodiment of knowledge and truth—
The above isthis what you are claiming?
Romans 2:23
You whoboast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?
Romans 2:25
Circumcisionhas value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become asthough you had not been circumcised.
Thisincludes any part of the Law
Romans 2:26
So then, ifthose who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not beregarded as though they were circumcised?
So if Idisregard the Law of Moses and obey Christ through the Love of Christ have Inot obeyed the Law since Love of Christ is the fulfillment of the Law of Moses?
Romans 2:27
The one whois not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, eventhough you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
Romans 3:19
Now we knowthat whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so thatevery mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Under theLaw I was made accountable so through the Law I came to Christ and I hear youclaiming that we are still under the Law and ten percent tithing.
Romans 3:20
Therefore noone will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather,through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Romans 3:21
[Righteousness Through Faith ] But now apart from the law the righteousness of Godhas been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
Romans 3:27
Where, then,is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works?No, because of the lawthat requires faith.
Romans 3:28
For wemaintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 3:31
Do we, then,nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
So if youare upholding the Law great but if we do not see trying to obey it only kills usbecause the Law is Holy and whenever it flows through carnal mindedness itkills,(flesh and blood) this is why we need Christ his finished work and moveonto new life in that Spirit of God by the resurrection of Christ, and learn toonly walk by his spirit where no sin is able to creep in ever anymore as wasbefore the cross, before God was able to live in us by the cross of christ
Romans 4:13
It was notthrough the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that hewould be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith
The above isthe answer to your 10% given to Melchisadek, and still was not a law put inplace until 430 years later and the promise was and is never of the Law thepromise is of Faith in Christ and thus being led by Christ in the Spirit ofChrist and Father through the Holy Ghost
Romans 4:14
For if thosewho depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise isworthless,
Romans 4:15
because thelaw brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Romans 4:16
Therefore,the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed toall Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to thosewho have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.
Romans 5:20
The law wasbrought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, graceincreased all the more,
Romans 6:14
For sinshall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but undergrace.
Romans 7:4
So, mybrothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, thatyou might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order thatwe might bear fruit for God.
The only waypossible to bear fruit to God is to die to the law all of it and thus comealive to God
Mixing Law andGrace is like trying to mix oil and water it does not mix?
We can't putnew wine in old wine skins the skins will burst and be worse, the same is withflesh it has been stretched out being in this world and part of this world soif one tries to obey law that person will just wax worse and worse and burstopen in all misery.
I have beenthere and it was most miserable. When I was finally there and gave up I heardGod say thank you to me and said now I can do what you have been trying to dofor you and through you, you just sitback and watch me and what I did (God speaking) and will do through you nowthat you gave up trying to do and obey by love all that there is to obey
We are nolonger under the Law, those that are in Christ. The Law is for the Law breakerand in Christ we are not a lawbreaker any longer by Christ
Thank you
Romans 2:12
All who sinapart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin underthe law will be judged by the law.
This istalking about the ten commandments let alone all 314 of them includingceremonial laws
Romans 2:13
For it isnot those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is thosewho obey the law who will be declared righteous
Do you hearthe Law, so do you obey it all 100% of the time
Romans 2:15
They showthat the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciencesalso bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at othertimes even defending them.)
don't we allpretty much do this we have our reasons and either excuse ourselves or do not,are we not working for our salvation in this way trying to obey which is a goodwill worship, what benefit to God is this type of worship
Romans 2:17
[The Jewsand the Law] Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law andboast in God;
Romans 2:18
if you knowhis will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law;
Romans 2:20
aninstructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have inthe law the embodiment of knowledge and truth—
The above isthis what you are claiming?
Romans 2:23
You whoboast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?
Romans 2:25
Circumcisionhas value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become asthough you had not been circumcised.
Thisincludes any part of the Law
Romans 2:26
So then, ifthose who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not beregarded as though they were circumcised?
So if Idisregard the Law of Moses and obey Christ through the Love of Christ have Inot obeyed the Law since Love of Christ is the fulfillment of the Law of Moses?
Romans 2:27
The one whois not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, eventhough you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
Romans 3:19
Now we knowthat whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so thatevery mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Under theLaw I was made accountable so through the Law I came to Christ and I hear youclaiming that we are still under the Law and ten percent tithing.
Romans 3:20
Therefore noone will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather,through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Romans 3:21
[Righteousness Through Faith ] But now apart from the law the righteousness of Godhas been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
Romans 3:27
Where, then,is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works?No, because of the lawthat requires faith.
Romans 3:28
For wemaintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 3:31
Do we, then,nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
So if youare upholding the Law great but if we do not see trying to obey it only kills usbecause the Law is Holy and whenever it flows through carnal mindedness itkills,(flesh and blood) this is why we need Christ his finished work and moveonto new life in that Spirit of God by the resurrection of Christ, and learn toonly walk by his spirit where no sin is able to creep in ever anymore as wasbefore the cross, before God was able to live in us by the cross of christ
Romans 4:13
It was notthrough the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that hewould be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith
The above isthe answer to your 10% given to Melchisadek, and still was not a law put inplace until 430 years later and the promise was and is never of the Law thepromise is of Faith in Christ and thus being led by Christ in the Spirit ofChrist and Father through the Holy Ghost
Romans 4:14
For if thosewho depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise isworthless,
Romans 4:15
because thelaw brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Romans 4:16
Therefore,the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed toall Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to thosewho have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.
Romans 5:20
The law wasbrought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, graceincreased all the more,
Romans 6:14
For sinshall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but undergrace.
Romans 7:4
So, mybrothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, thatyou might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order thatwe might bear fruit for God.
The only waypossible to bear fruit to God is to die to the law all of it and thus comealive to God
Mixing Law andGrace is like trying to mix oil and water it does not mix?
We can't putnew wine in old wine skins the skins will burst and be worse, the same is withflesh it has been stretched out being in this world and part of this world soif one tries to obey law that person will just wax worse and worse and burstopen in all misery.
I have beenthere and it was most miserable. When I was finally there and gave up I heardGod say thank you to me and said now I can do what you have been trying to dofor you and through you, you just sitback and watch me and what I did (God speaking) and will do through you nowthat you gave up trying to do and obey by love all that there is to obey
We are nolonger under the Law, those that are in Christ. The Law is for the Law breakerand in Christ we are not a lawbreaker any longer by Christ
Thank you
Just take away a paid pastors pay and see how long that pastor stays preaching the word of Christ and it will be shown truth as to whether or not that Pastor was really there for the peoples salvation or for the money, and this happens to a many a preacher that is paid to preach, it turns to for money a lot of the times even though they might have started out for the salvation of the people, and I do not know who they are but i do know that Paul said he had the right to reap the peoples goods but he did not want to hurt the grace of god so he did not excercise this right and worked day and night being a tent maker. Today Bookreader it is messed up and man again has intervened between the believer and Christ as if christ is not the only mediator between God and me or God and you
I've noticed money is something many of us use to measure our worth and gives us a false security. I'm not speaking for everyone but this is what I've noticed. It's so hard for us to just give it away until we learn God owns it all. He promises to take care of us when we let go of our own scemes and plans and let Him order our daily lives. Tithing is just a good habit to get into about giving without condition. Trusting God to meet our needs even when we can't. Again faith comes in big time when it comes to money, it's a good measure of where our hearts are. Money can represent so much to us like security., status, pride, pleasure, enjoyment., ease, respect from even strangers and so much more.
To be able to count on God the way we have counted on ourselves and the money we make was a major turn in my growth. I'm still learning how to trust God in all things, but giving up my "right" to what I always considered "my" money has been adding to my growth as a christian woman of my age. God blesses us so we can bless others right?
To be able to count on God the way we have counted on ourselves and the money we make was a major turn in my growth. I'm still learning how to trust God in all things, but giving up my "right" to what I always considered "my" money has been adding to my growth as a christian woman of my age. God blesses us so we can bless others right?
Undertithing we are under a requirement and if I can't fulfill it because ofwhatever reason then I am under a curse, just like when they accused Jesus ofeating or doing something that was not lawful, literally by thee words not bylove and he replied have you not read when King David ate of the showbread becausethey were hungry, why do you not understand that God requires MERCY above sacrifice.Today it is Mercy we have received so it shall be MERCY we shall give. Underthe Law we are under a curse and making and keeping tithing a law is puttingoneself under a curse for if you are trying to keep the Law then you have tokeep the whole Law all of it and none of us can.
This is whywe are today under a new covenant, released from the Old Law, given new Law theLaw of liberty God's Love as described in 1 Cor. 13 through Christ at theresurrection Under a new Priesthood inthe order of Melchisadek
New Law, newpriesthood, new Covenant, and Christ was from the tribe of Judah not LevitesHMMMM!!!!!!
Christ isthe end of the Law for those that believe in him for righteousness there is noother way
Romans 10:4
For Christis the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
The Tithewas a requirement to the Levitical Priesthood. They could own nothing of theirown ever. The requirement of ten percent was to be given to them from the other11 tribes to support them so that they could devote full time to God's work,and it was not just money it was clothing housing and food you all.
And how didthat work out hmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well ifanyone who believes in Tithes today I ask them this one? Do you own anything?And I hear a Yes I do, and I reply with therefore I will not give you a dimebecause you own things here on earth and the requirement under Tithing is youcan own nothing being the preacher.
If you aregoing to hold to any part of Law you are required to hold to all of it period
The TenCommandments is like trying to hold ten apples under the water at the same timeand can't be done. And if one is trying then they are too busy trying to getright with God and have missed the mark of God's Love presented in and by thecross, where we are accepted in him the beloved. Where all the Law is fulfilledin Christ and we are freed to Love God's way by God not only living in us butmore importantly through us
And how didthat work out hmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well ifanyone who believes in Tithes today I ask them this one? Do you own anything?And I hear a Yes I do, and I reply with therefore I will not give you a dimebecause you own things here on earth and the requirement under Tithing is youcan own nothing being the preacher.
If you aregoing to hold to any part of Law you are required to hold to all of it period
The TenCommandments is like trying to hold ten apples under the water at the same timeand can't be done. And if one is trying then they are too busy trying to getright with God and have missed the mark of God's Love presented in and by thecross, where we are accepted in him the beloved. Where all the Law is fulfilledin Christ and we are freed to Love God's way by God not only living in us butmore importantly through us
Personally, I do try to yes. I don't always do it. But I CHOOSE to do it when I can. I do it because God gives to me, so I give to God. Also the church will not be able to function without the help of the house. Is it commanded though, no. It should be your choice, but if you do give, only give gladly and not do it in legalism. Its personal conviction at the end of the day
If it comes from ones heart voluntarily then it is not Tithing it is Giving as you are led period we are not under law today after the cross for those that beleive\
Romans 10:4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Romans 10:4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Actually we all already give by and through being taxed for this country to be free we have all kinds of programs that are instituted for help to people and we are taxed I think about twenty percent to begin with.
This country US was based on the freedom that God gave us. But man as usual just gets in the way of God and wants to do his own thing, but regardless all of us that have worked or still work pay Tithes by their taxes that they are taxed
This country US was based on the freedom that God gave us. But man as usual just gets in the way of God and wants to do his own thing, but regardless all of us that have worked or still work pay Tithes by their taxes that they are taxed
Well as many have said in the answers to the original post they do not believe in the tithe as a practice of the new life. Well the tithe was never abolished but conditions were given in the NT. When you give it as a work it means nothing but when you do it in faith you get its rewards. We are to give it and our offerings cheerfully, not grudgingly, or out of necessity. We dont just give as God leads but many do not belong to a local church which is a nother post for another time.
J
If you have it and it doesn't break your bank, then give it. But remember, a man must provide for his family first or he is as bad as an infidel. If your bank is too tight then maybe it's time to change a few things in your life.
Remember, you cannot out-give GOD. There is always blessings when you give.
Remember, you cannot out-give GOD. There is always blessings when you give.
Law and grace do not mix never have and never will just like oil and water, we are to be led and Follow God period being our only mediator to God the Father, the way, the truth and the life and it is all bundled in the cross, death, burial, resurrection, ascenscion where we recieve the Holy Ghost to seperate error from truth available to all that believe in God
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That's just the talk Paul was talking about when he said you can't get favour by works.
It was the attitude of many Jews. "Give because we want to and there will be a reward"
Flower it up all you want to but you said, clearly
Keep thinking that and that faith you think you have might get you nowhere you think it will get you...
God will see my position and decide.
Giving or not giving, to the church pastor, or to others. God sees it.
But God sees WHY we did it in our hearts. I hope you understanding or works and faith improves as your post suggests you're like many others...
- if I do this because I think I have to - I will be condemned
- if I do this because I want to - I get reward
- so I'll do it because I want to
The fact that thought process goes or ever went through your head suggests you might be doing it because you think you have to so convince yourself it's because you want to.
Don't give to the church give to whomever you want to help - help the church finances out - that has NOTHING to do with charity. It's paying for wages or building hire or whatever and, in reality helps no-one except the people you pay.
Instead they could have a job and share the work with others - for free.
But buildings and such do cost money.
If you insist on meeting in hired buildings.
Jesus didn't.
Or John, or Peter, or James, or even Paul.
It was the attitude of many Jews. "Give because we want to and there will be a reward"
Flower it up all you want to but you said, clearly
Keep thinking that and that faith you think you have might get you nowhere you think it will get you...
God will see my position and decide.
Giving or not giving, to the church pastor, or to others. God sees it.
But God sees WHY we did it in our hearts. I hope you understanding or works and faith improves as your post suggests you're like many others...
- if I do this because I think I have to - I will be condemned
- if I do this because I want to - I get reward
- so I'll do it because I want to
The fact that thought process goes or ever went through your head suggests you might be doing it because you think you have to so convince yourself it's because you want to.
Don't give to the church give to whomever you want to help - help the church finances out - that has NOTHING to do with charity. It's paying for wages or building hire or whatever and, in reality helps no-one except the people you pay.
Instead they could have a job and share the work with others - for free.
But buildings and such do cost money.
If you insist on meeting in hired buildings.
Jesus didn't.
Or John, or Peter, or James, or even Paul.
R
I hope these scripture help about tithing. Malachi 3:8-10 - Luke 6:38 - Deuteronomy 14:22-26 - Galatians 5:18 - Acts 20:35
In the late 1800's 80% of church goers tithed. Schools and colleges were built by the church. In the 1920's that dropped to 50% and the schools and welfare system was lacking. The federal Government ( I'm talking about America) had to step in and take it over. What a shame. In the 1960's it dropped to 30% of church goers. Now it is less than 10% that tithe. Wow just imagine if we had kept it at 80% how different things would be today.
under thenew covenant, not law yes it is
[SUP]35 [/SUP]In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ”
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
So we are free to give without compulsion
Thanks
[SUP]35 [/SUP]In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ”
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
So we are free to give without compulsion
Thanks