Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

[biker]

From the actual oldest Greek dated Papyrus we know to factually exist:

Revelation 5:

7 And It came and has taken the scroll out of the right hand of Him Who is sitting on the throne.
^

Let's use this verse for a moment.
Specifically, "HIM Who is sitting on the Throne.
Jesus in John 4:24 (Speaking of the Father) said, 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Jesus assigns the Father as both Spirit and HIM.
How then can you claim to know Revelations is (and I am copying your own post here) The father is in the form of a human...as is the son.

By your Reasoning, Jesus is WRONG in His description of the Father being a Spirit and a HIM!
Or better yet, by Christ's Reasoning, YOU are wrong in thinking HIM (the Father) on the Throne means a Person!

 

[C313brat3]

John 1:1 ,29 ,33,34 In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word was God.
29.The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him,and saith,Behold the Lamb of God,which taketh away the sins of the world.
33. And I knew Him not: but He that sent me to baptize with water,the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending,and remaineth on Him,the same is He which is baptized with the Holy Ghost.
34. And I saw and bear record that this is the Son of God.

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven,saying, This is my beloved Son,in whom I am well pleased.



All three were present at Jesus' baptism by John,God spoke,the Holy Ghost descended upon Jesus God's Son.

 

[Absolutely]

Not sure why you think as such when I have presented their own writings:

God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.

^

From the writers of Nicene Creed and Church Fathers, reading what they wrote up above, where is the distinctness you claim they claim?

From the writers of Nicene Creed and Church Fathers, reading what they wrote up above, where is the distinctness you claim they claim?

Not trying to be ugly,but your method of connecting the dots is a formula for error,because you cherry pick what these ancient MEN wrote.

 

[Absolutely]

You're gagging at a gnat here. By using your logic, you can not believe in the Trinity, as that word is found nowhere in scripture.

It is a blur.
But he appears to believe in the trinity,but he is micromanaging the terms used.
the terms evidently need to match exactly the church fathers.

 

[garee]

I notice that you are continuing to define God in terms of the natural creation. That's the fundamental issue. The natural creation does convey some truths concerning God, but he is not reduced to laws that exist in creation.

And, God is a multi-personal being. Insisting that he cannot be is basically saying he is subject to observable facts in the creation.

It would seem he is known by more than one attribute or personality . He is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul desires .Job informs us it is he who makes our hearts soft. He is subject to His own law magnifying it above his name . He uses natural creation observable facts the temporal to give us the eternal understanding when using the proper tool to rightly divide the parables .. (2 Corinthians 4:18 )

For instance as a sign to the world he continually reveals his wrath that began in the garden the fall. So that all mankind is without excuse. Mankind without the Spirit of Christ has no vision or way to hear God in order to understand .

Believers that mix the temporal things of men seen with the unseen understanding are revealed the gospel. The gospel is revealed by mixing faith in what the eyes see to the same spiritual understanding.

Mixing supernatural faith with the natural.

Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

It would seem they literalize the signified understanding.

 

[biker]

It is a blur.
But he appears to believe in the trinity,but he is micromanaging the terms used.
the terms evidently need to match exactly the church fathers.

No, they need to match exactly what the Word of God states. I don't use a phrase I can make up from several verses. I use a phrase that is specifically stated within the Holy Word of God. The Gospel is not according to my understanding, to my creativity, to the catch phrases I can decipher and bunch together by reasoning. The Holy Spirit inspired men to create the phrases God wanted us to know and to use. If the Bible is not good enough to prove your point of view unless you need to create elaborate titles to help explain your position, then your position is more than likely incorrect!

 

[Absolutely]

No, they need to match exactly what the Word of God states. I don't use a phrase I can make up from several verses. I use a phrase that is specifically stated within the Holy Word of God. The Gospel is not according to my understanding, to my creativity, to the catch phrases I can decipher and bunch together by reasoning. The Holy Spirit inspired men to create the phrases God wanted us to know and to use. If the Bible is not good enough to prove your point of view unless you need to create elaborate titles to help explain your position, then your position is more than likely incorrect!

Person, entity,being.

All are ok to use describing the 3 persons of the Godhead.
No foul.

 

[biker]

Person, entity,being.

All are ok to use describing the 3 persons of the Godhead.
No foul.

I reply according to what is being directed towards me.
Personally, I believe they are what Christ said, SPIRIT!

Meaning, since Christ said the Father is God and a Spirit, and the Father begat both the WORD and WISDOM, that makes the WORD and WISDOM like the Father, SPIRIT!

 

[biker]

The Bible gives us direct answers.

Example: the WORD

Scriptures tells us the WORD was made flesh/manifested into flesh.
That shows us before being made/manifested into flesh, the WORD (by EXPRESS IMAGE/Book of Hebrews) is the SAME as the FATHER, which is SPIRIT!

 

[Mattathias]

In the very first sentence scripture of the Bible.

In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.

Elohim is plural and not singular.

Elohim is plural in form but may either be singular or plural in meaning, depending on context.

Elohim (singular) = God
Elohim (plural) = gods

In the beginning God (elohim, singular) created the heavens and the earth.

In the beginning gods (Heb. elohim, plural) created the heavens and the earth.

In Genesis 1:1 elohim is singular and not plural.

 

[pottersclay]

Elohim is plural in form but may either be singular or plural in meaning, depending on context.

Elohim (singular) = God
Elohim (plural) = gods

In the beginning God (elohim, singular) created the heavens and the earth.

In the beginning gods (Heb. elohim, plural) created the heavens and the earth.

In Genesis 1:1 elohim is singular and not plural.

The creation in which God engineered was spoken into existence while the spirit hovered over the waters.
Creation manifested by 3 Devine entities the father, the son (the word) and the Holy Spirit who hovered over the waters.

 

[acts5_29]

My contribution to this thread: before Christ, Plato wrote a treatise on the Tripartite Theory of man's soul. In other words, in GREEK philosophy which predated Christianity, doctrine circulated around the Mediterranean that MAN was composed of three parts (e.g. mind, body, and soul). In other words, pre-Christian Greek thought helped shape our understanding of God in three persons.

Just to be clear, though, God is who He is, Greek philosophy or no. Our UNDERSTANDING of Him was shaped by Greek Tripartite thought.

 

[Mattathias]

The creation in which God engineered was spoken into existence while the spirit hovered over the waters.
Creation manifested by 3 Devine entities the father, the son (the word) and the Holy Spirit who hovered over the waters.

The point about elohim being singular and not plural in Genesis 1:1 is confirmed by the Septuagint. The Greek word in LXX used to translate the Hebrew word elohim is theos (singular), not theoi (plural).

In the beginning God (Heb. elohim, singular; Gk. theos, singular) created the heavens and the earth.

 

[Mattathias]

My contribution to this thread: before Christ, Plato wrote a treatise on the Tripartite Theory of man's soul. In other words, in GREEK philosophy which predated Christianity, doctrine circulated around the Mediterranean that MAN was composed of three parts (e.g. mind, body, and soul). In other words, pre-Christian Greek thought helped shape our understanding of God in three persons.

Just to be clear, though, God is who He is, Greek philosophy or no. Our UNDERSTANDING of Him was shaped by Greek Tripartite thought.

An excellent observation/contribution.

Would our understanding of God be different if it was shaped instead by the Jewish thought of Jesus?

 

[Absolutely]

Elohim is plural in form but may either be singular or plural in meaning, depending on context.

Elohim (singular) = God
Elohim (plural) = gods

In the beginning God (elohim, singular) created the heavens and the earth.

In the beginning gods (Heb. elohim, plural) created the heavens and the earth.

In Genesis 1:1 elohim is singular and not plural.

"Let US create man in OUR image"

 

[Absolutely]

The point about elohim being singular and not plural in Genesis 1:1 is confirmed by the Septuagint. The Greek word in LXX used to translate the Hebrew word elohim is theos (singular), not theoi (plural).

In the beginning God (Heb. elohim, singular; Gk. theos, singular) created the heavens and the earth.

In john 1 Jesus is declared the creator.

The trinity
God the father
God the son
God the Holy Spirit

 

[Absolutely]

My contribution to this thread: before Christ, Plato wrote a treatise on the Tripartite Theory of man's soul. In other words, in GREEK philosophy which predated Christianity, doctrine circulated around the Mediterranean that MAN was composed of three parts (e.g. mind, body, and soul). In other words, pre-Christian Greek thought helped shape our understanding of God in three persons.

Just to be clear, though, God is who He is, Greek philosophy or no. Our UNDERSTANDING of Him was shaped by Greek Tripartite thought.

Just to be clear
Your post is baloney
No,nothing you said has anything at all to do with the clear biblical truth of The Truine Godhead.

 

[Absolutely]

I reply according to what is being directed towards me.
Personally, I believe they are what Christ said, SPIRIT!

Meaning, since Christ said the Father is God and a Spirit, and the Father begat both the WORD and WISDOM, that makes the WORD and WISDOM like the Father, SPIRIT!

Angel's are spirit.

...and yet abraham saw them and dealt with them as men.
Other references have angels as men also.

 

[Absolutely]

Elohim is plural in form but may either be singular or plural in meaning, depending on context.

Elohim (singular) = God
Elohim (plural) = gods

In the beginning God (elohim, singular) created the heavens and the earth.

In the beginning gods (Heb. elohim, plural) created the heavens and the earth.

In Genesis 1:1 elohim is singular and not plural.

That means the trinity may be true?

 

[biker]

Angel's are spirit.

...and yet abraham saw them and dealt with them as men.
Other references have angels as men also.

Abraham had the favor of God upon his life as well. God purposefully revealed Himself to Abram/Abraham because God made Abraham the "Father" of His Chosen people.

We see and entertain Angels today as well.

The Fallen Angels had children with women.

But the FATHER is different than an Angel. We are Commanded to worship the FATHER, not the Angel!

The FATHER is only revealed by the WORD made flesh, not by us meeting the FATHER in a one on one setting!

The FATHER was never willed to be here on Earth. He is Spirit 100% like the WORD said all of the time!

Even Paul calls the FATHER INVISIBLE GOD!