Attack of the Judaizers

[danschance]

danschance, how, as you imply, can one be in the spirit of the law while defying the letter of it. Jesus taught that we should obey the Law of the Lord, in the letter, and in the spirit. I'm still waiting for you to explain how, if the moral law was abrogated, why John would remind us that "...sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). Why will you not reconcile your antinomian position with John's reminder? Why? Please, we are all waiting for an answer.

The NT clearly states man is sinful. This means we have broken God's laws and certainly, that is lawlessness, the state of all humans on the earth. The big question is what law is John talking about in the verse you cited. Is it the Mosaic law or something else?

First, lets see if the Mosaic laws are for the NT believer. These four verses clearly spell the end of the Mosaic laws for the NT believer.

1) "For Christ is the end to the law of righteousness to everyone who believes" Romans 10:4

2) "Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under the a guardian (i.e. the mosaic law), for in Christ Jesus you are the sons of God, through faith.
Gal 3:23-25

3) "by abolishing the commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace." Eph. 2:15

4) But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of written code. Romans 7:6

So if we are not under the Mosaic laws, which law is John mentioning in 1 John 3:4? Christians are under the law of Christ.

1) To those outside the law I become as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 1 Cor 9:21

2) Bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ. Gal 6:2

More on what the Law of Christ: What is the law of Christ?

Why will you not reconcile your antinomian position with John's reminder? Why? Please, we are all waiting for an answer.

As stated above, I as a NT believer am not under the Mosaic law. I am under the law of Christ as mentioned above. Your assertion that I have a "antinomian position" is a groundless charge lacking in common sense. The "nomian nuts" see the word law in the NT and leap to the false conclusion that it is a reference to the Mosaic law. The law of Christ is much more strict than the Mosaic laws which only focused on external things. The law of Christ also focuses on our external actions, thoughts and inner feelings.

 

[ServantStrike]

You don't have to go to Revelation for that.

Paul says it is happening now (Ro 11:5, 25).

That actually makes a lot of sense. If it couldn't happen now, then none would be finding Christ, which would be well, horrific.

I would contend that there is still going to be one last time where there is a remnant. I dare say we haven't seen the two witnesses yet.


This could make for an interesting study.

 

[Laodicea]

You do greatly err...

Galatians 2:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


If Christianity were about keeping the law then why would we be dead to it? Because Christianity is not about keeping the law. Christianity is about faith in Christ.

Judaism is about keeping the law. If you say you are a Christian but keep pointing Christians to the law instead of Christ then you are a judaizer. You are attempting to blend Judaism and Christianity. You are mixing the hot with the cold and attempting to call it hot.

This was an issue ever since Christianity began. Its been settled over 2000 yrs ago. You are either on the side of the gospel of Christ or you are on the wrong side.

If you think dead to the law means we do not have to keep the law then ye do greatly err

 

[danschance]

If you think dead to the law means we do not have to keep the law then ye do greatly err

I have answered this here>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/82418-attack-judaizers-97.html#post1381032

 

[Grandpa]

GrandPa, if your interpretation is correct, why did John remind us that "...sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4)? Why did John, describing the new birth, say "...love God and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous" (1 John 5:2-3)? You are repeating "law" in Galatians out of context. "Law," in Galatians emphasizes, not the moral law (the Law of the Lord) but the Old Covenant ceremonial law of blood ordinances, circumcision, etc. Paul, in other words was not contradicting John, nor John, Paul. Please consider that the antinomian position you take is a contradiction of the Word of God, one which was not taught until recent generations. One does not get this teaching from scripture, it comes from dispensationalist-futurist teaching establishment.

Sin is transgression of the law. Anytime you look to the Perfection of the Law and try to obey perfectly that Law you fail and are condemned.

There is only one way to overcome this great predicament. Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Our faith in Him establishes the law. How?

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

How is this fruit manifested in our lives? By our keeping of the law? nope... BY Faith in Christ.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

The law is not to be separated into what you think you should keep and what you shouldn't. Only religions and people that wish to put Christians back into bondage do that.

Galatians 3:3,10-11
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

In Christ is everything we need for Righteousness and Godliness. Our faith that He will and does work in us is what makes us Christians.

If Christ isn't the beginning and end for all of your blessings then you aren't really a Christian but you have added something to the Gospel that isn't there. You are double minded. Its Christ plus your works that make you righteous. That's not Christianity but man-made religion attempting to blend judaism and christianity just like in Acts. Read Acts 15 for the conclusion to that matter. Maybe you should think about that.

 

[Grandpa]

If you think dead to the law means we do not have to keep the law then ye do greatly err

Dead to the law means exactly and simply what it says. It doesn't have power over us anymore. We don't look back to it to try and obey it. That is condemnation. We look to Christ, in whom there is no condemnation.

 

[Josh321]

Sin is transgression of the law. Anytime you look to the Perfection of the Law and try to obey perfectly that Law you fail and are condemned.

There is only one way to overcome this great predicament. Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Our faith in Him establishes the law. How?

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

How is this fruit manifested in our lives? By our keeping of the law? nope... BY Faith in Christ.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

The law is not to be separated into what you think you should keep and what you shouldn't. Only religions and people that wish to put Christians back into bondage do that.

Galatians 3:3,10-11
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

In Christ is everything we need for Righteousness and Godliness. Our faith that He will and does work in us is what makes us Christians.

If Christ isn't the beginning and end for all of your blessings then you aren't really a Christian but you have added something to the Gospel that isn't there. You are double minded. Its Christ plus your works that make you righteous. That's not Christianity but man-made religion attempting to blend judaism and christianity just like in Acts. Read Acts 15 for the conclusion to that matter. Maybe you should think about that.

Amen... can't be said any better, we have NO righteousnesss at all, so i do not know what they trying to prove, i see works that cain do, tried to give a little extra offering beautiful things apples fruits and what not but God rejected it, he only wanted one thing the blood of the lamb, it's just their flesh trying to exalt themselves and they won't listen at all it's very sad, instead of marrying God they married religion, for i never could've followed the law no one can i was a sinner, how on earth can a sinner follow something that our nature is contrary against, know what made me changed? when i accepted Christ he righteousness came into me by his spirit, and i walk according to him by nature that's all you need to do people just wake up and open your eyes.. look at what is going on stop rejecting the holy spirit and this will be revealed to you as well

 

[Josh321]

Dead to the law means exactly and simply what it says. It doesn't have power over us anymore. We don't look back to it to try and obey it. That is condemnation. We look to Christ, in whom there is no condemnation.

Brother you can't expect much people to understand, not many realize the bible is revealed by spiritual revelation, when i wasn't born again i just use to read the bible when i did do that i felt like just a story book, but now... when it is read it's like i'm reading about myself it's the same spirit that wrote the bible within you that is where the understanding come from

 

[Grandpa]

Brother you can't expect much people to understand, not many realize the bible is revealed by spiritual revelation, when i wasn't born again i just use to read the bible when i did do that i felt like just a story book, but now... when it is read it's like i'm reading about myself it's the same spirit that wrote the bible within you that is where the understanding come from

Yes. The veil was over our eyes as well until the Lord Jesus gave us His Holy Spirit to be our teacher.

John 12:37-40
[SUP]37 [/SUP]But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
[SUP]38 [/SUP]That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
[SUP]40 [/SUP]He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[john832]

Dead to the law means exactly and simply what it says. It doesn't have power over us anymore. We don't look back to it to try and obey it. That is condemnation. We look to Christ, in whom there is no condemnation.

So if you lie, it is not a sin for you are dead to the Law? If you commit murder or steal, no problem, you are dead to the law. I am very thankful you are not my neighbor.

 

[BradC]

So if you lie, it is not a sin for you are dead to the Law? If you commit murder or steal, no problem, you are dead to the law. I am very thankful you are not my neighbor.

No one is saying any such thing, except you. If a believer commits any form of sin against the holiness of God which the law reveals, they need to receive grace and be forgiven and cleansed of that unrighteousness. The Holy Spirit will convict of sin based upon what the law of Christ has spoken into the ears of the one who has sinned. Being dead to the law means that we have an advocate in Christ and it is not based upon the law but rather on the shed blood of the cross that has satisfied the justice of God. If we sin, it happens in our fleshly body of sin and death and to be justified from that sin, instead of being condemned, we must find it through grace and the blood of Christ. We do not advocate that we sin that grace may abound because we are dead to the law, but we do advocate that if we do sin we are dead to the law of condemnation and must go to God by faith and confess our sin and be restored by grace to live unto God.

 

[Josh321]

Yes. The veil was over our eyes as well until the Lord Jesus gave us His Holy Spirit to be our teacher.

John 12:37-40
[SUP]37 [/SUP]But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
[SUP]38 [/SUP]That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
[SUP]40 [/SUP]He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

This is the big conflict with christianity now some received it some haven't, and that's what's going on

 

[Josh321]

So if you lie, it is not a sin for you are dead to the Law? If you commit murder or steal, no problem, you are dead to the law. I am very thankful you are not my neighbor.

oh sir, it makes me sad to see this, that's just the thing you don't understand and you don't want to understand either, the actually spirit of Christ comes into us, you see the nature of Sin before the believer had christ, is dead your no longer a slave to Sin your a servant of Christ, your thinking we are saying grace is a " all you can sin buffet " but it's not that my brother... if the fruits of the spirit is within you, you will not Sin or live in Sin anymore it's impossible almost

[h=3]Romans 6[/h]King James Version (KJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

do you see it?

 

[john832]

oh sir, it makes me sad to see this, that's just the thing you don't understand and you don't want to understand either, the actually spirit of Christ comes into us, you see the nature of Sin before the believer had christ, is dead your no longer a slave to Sin your a servant of Christ, your thinking we are saying grace is a " all you can sin buffet " but it's not that my brother... if the fruits of the spirit is within you, you will not Sin or live in Sin anymore it's impossible almost

Romans 6

King James Version (KJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

do you see it?

No, I don't see it and Paul didn't either...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.
Rom 7:16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

Maybe in the resurrection you can instruct Paul.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

The NT clearly states man is sinful. This means we have broken God's laws and certainly, that is lawlessness, the state of all humans on the earth. The big question is what law is John talking about in the verse you cited. Is it the Mosaic law or something else?

First, lets see if the Mosaic laws are for the NT believer. These four verses clearly spell the end of the Mosaic laws for the NT believer.

1) "For Christ is the end to the law of righteousness to everyone who believes" Romans 10:4

This verse is often cited by those who claim that God’s Law is now void. The apostle Paul explained (Romans 10:3) how some in Rome were trying to establish their own righteousness apart from God. Ignoring Christ’s sacrifice, they thought that merely obeying the commandments would be sufficient for anyone to receive salvation.


Paul went on to explain in verses 6 and 7, “But the righteousness which is of faith speaks on this wise, Say not in your heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)” In effect, Paul is saying, “Your righteousness is not going to change the fact that Christ died (no matter how righteous you are or think you are, Christ still had to die for your sins)” and “it is not going to change the fact that He is raised (and is now Himself living in converted Christians [Gal. 2:20; Rom. 8:9]).” It is Christ in us that enables us to keep God’s Law, not anything we do of and by ourselves.


To properly grasp the meaning of Romans 10:4, we must first understand what Paul meant by the phrase “the end of the law.” The Greek word translated “end” is telos (Strong’s #5056), meaning “the point aimed at; result.” In other words, Paul is saying that God’s spiritual Law, which God also calls “holy, and just, and good” (Rom. 7:12), points to Christ, who “

us an example, that you should follow His steps” (I Pet. 2:21). It is Christ living in us that enables us to keep God’s holy, perfect Law, which we lack the spiritual strength to keep, of and by ourselves (Rom. 7:14-25; 8:7-8). The Christian’s ultimate goal is to become like Christ, “the Author and Finisher of our faith” (Heb. 12:2).


In order to better understand the meaning of the word “end,” as used in the context of Romans 10:4, notice: “Behold, we count them happy which endure. You have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy” (Jms. 5:11). James did not mean that Christ’s end had come. He meant that they (the scattered twelve tribes of Israel [1:1]) had seen the aim (purpose) of the Lord: “…that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.” God’s tender mercy on mankind is shown in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”​

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

In Nazi Germany they called fundamental christians of any denomination that kept the bible old and new JUDAIZERS and passed a law to kill all judaizers it was a religous war. Calling people Judaizers is NAzi talk. Judaizers is offensive word and should be removed from this website as well as niggers and other bigot terminology.

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS IS NEVER CALLED THE LAW OF GOD
EVER! IT IS THE COVENANT GO READ
This confusion is perpertrated by every false teacher, and false doctor...

1. The Book of the law Moses was written in a book
a scroll by Moses

THE LAW
It was called the LAW, the sacrifices, the circumcisions the feasts and the cleansings
Exo 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, ... And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law,
and put it in the side of the ark
of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

THE COVENANT
The ten commandment Law God written on stone, not in a book.
It was called the covenant - The ten commandments.
Deu 10:1 At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood. And I (God)will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest,
and thou shalt put them in the ark.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. and thou shalt put them in the ark.


Two different things law and the commandments

The law Moses wrote, is fulfilled
The commandments covenant is binding


King james mixed up the two

if you remained mixed up then hosea says



In the same sentance Jesus said
LAW

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
next sentance
COMMANDMENTS
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.



Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
because thou hast rejected knowledge,
I will also reject thee,
that thou shalt be no priest to me:
seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God,
I will also forget thy children.

 

[john832]

1) "For Christ is the end to the law of righteousness to everyone who believes" Romans 10:4

And by your scholarship...

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

And Christ is no more either.

Me thinks you have misunderstood the word Telos to mean the obliteration when in fact it means the result or completion.

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

The concordances that explain the TORAH as being the mosaic law plus the ten commandments is error
Started by pagan monks in 400 AD when they translated into greek

 

[Josh321]

No, I don't see it and Paul didn't either...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.
Rom 7:16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

Maybe in the resurrection you can instruct Paul.

that is paul battle with the flesh and the spirit...

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

The word JUDAIZERS was the cause of the innocent deaths of 20 million Jews and christians
the word NIGGER never killed that many
Judaizer is a offensive word and should be removed

How would administrator like a thread called
the attack of the niggers?

Hitler sais
"Judaizers must not hold position in the church of Germany
there must be found a SOLUTION for all JUDAIZERS, a final solution

Many of my germna relatives were killed because the supposedly Judaized,
they came into the village and the nazi storm troopers
Ther name in german were
STORM TROOPERS FOR CHRIST

not kidding
it was a religious war

they would come into every village and hold a gun to their heads
and say
Who is your savior, Jesus christ or Hitler?
and if you said Jesus christ they would put a bullet in your brain
one whole village in serbia was wiped out because they would not worship hitler the German protestant state religion
my grand parents exacaped because they had gone to a different town to [pick up supplies

Judaizer is a very offensive word to me
not sorry about it, it is Nazi talk.