Baptism Essential to Salvation

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Mar 12, 2014
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Eph 4 indicates that all Christians have one baptism, the same for all Christians (not counting baptisms, but indicating same). The one baptism they have is Spirit baptism, for some Christians have never been water baptised, yet they are saved as Acts 16 indicates.

What MUST-I-DO to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.

There is only one MUST-I-DO: believe.

But as to Bible baptisms, there are more than 1:
1) water baptism
2) spirit baptism (I baptise you with water . . . He shall baptize you with the Spirit)
spirit baptism was yet future in Acts 1 "not many days hence."
3) Christ's death was a baptism for him.

Eph 4:5 there is one baptism in effect.

The eunuch was water baptized so that water baptism must be the one baptism of Eph 4:5.

EPh 4:5 does not say "two baptisms" but "one baptism". In your post, you are creating TWO baptism contrary to Eph 4:5.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Your desire for confrontatin is only exceeded by you lack of hearing others. What I shared is from the Word and not intended to set a fire. Please, if you do not wish to hear others, do not answer to what they post. I will now say good bye for a while. May God bless you with an understanding heart, patience and love, amen.

I see others contradicting the order of Acts 2:38 and MK 16:16 by trying to put salvation BEFORE water baptism. Not respecting the bible and order of events that God put in those verses is the problem here.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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You have already said one repents BEFORE he believes now you are saying the atheist must believe then repent.

Quoting persons with your opinion proves nothing. Your "so" is illogical, an ad hominem argument.

The statement "if A & B, then C results" does not prove which was essential, A or B. If you chop off a man's head & stick him with a pin, he will die. But that doesn't prove that the pin was necessary.

But Art Fahrstad was a personal friend of mine, & I am sure that he did not believe that water baptism saved at all. I met with him in the church that met in his home & went out to eat with him at a restaurant on a weekly basis.

Baptism cannot be essential to salvation as salvation is offered so many, many times just for believing. Acts 2:38 makes best sense as referring to Spirit baptism. No water is mentioned & Spirit baptism is in context.

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Belief as the sole condition is given time after time. Baptism passages in salvation context are rare.
Read it again.


It said Arthur L. Farstad was the chairman of the New King James Executive Review Committee and general editor of the NKJV New Testament. The NKJV was translated by over 120 Greek scholars, many of whom teach in Baptist schools.

So it was many Baptist scholars refuting mailmandan's erroneous argument on Acts 2:38. Last time I checked, Baptists do not think water baptism saves.
 
J

Joh-Anne

Guest
Whether you are agreeing or not, when people read this thread they will learn all there is to learn from scripture about baptism. All in one place. :)
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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Read it again.


It said Arthur L. Farstad was the chairman of the New King James Executive Review Committee and general editor of the NKJV New Testament. The NKJV was translated by over 120 Greek scholars, many of whom teach in Baptist schools.

So it was many Baptist scholars refuting mailmandan's erroneous argument on Acts 2:38. Last time I checked, Baptists do not think water baptism saves.
What I said is true. You cannot site Art Farstad in favor of water baptism saving. Acts 2:38 has been a controversial verse in intepretation. "Baptist" means very little except advocating believer's baptism (no infants). Aside from that, there are many variations of "baptists" -- there are probably hundreds of different "baptist" denominations believing quite different things.

The point is that Acts 2:38 does not prove that water baptism saves or brings remission of sins. People can argue over what the preposition eis means. Taking it to mean Spirit Baptism is a reasonable POV and it fits the context. Water baptism cannot save because it is a human work. Salvation is offered so many, many times without any reference to any baptism and only for believing, that one can safely conclude that water baptism is not essential to salvation.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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I see others contradicting the order of Acts 2:38 and MK 16:16 by trying to put salvation BEFORE water baptism. Not respecting the bible and order of events that God put in those verses is the problem here.
Neither Acts 2 nor Mark 16 mention "water baptism." Acts 2 was the fulfillment of the Spirit baptism prediction.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Neither Acts 2 nor Mark 16 mention "water baptism." Acts 2 was the fulfillment of the Spirit baptism prediction.

Both verses are Christ's baptism of the great commission where disciples/humans were commissioned to go and administer water baptism, as Phillip did with the eunuch.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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Eph 4:5 there is one baptism in effect.

The eunuch was water baptized so that water baptism must be the one baptism of Eph 4:5.

EPh 4:5 does not say "two baptisms" but "one baptism". In your post, you are creating TWO baptism contrary to Eph 4:5.
The one Must-I-Do to become a Christian is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16).

There is a 3rd baptism, that of Christ. I did not create it.

Are ye able to drink the cup that I drink? or to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?


So your count theory cannot be correct.
Scripture is clear that water baptism is disinguished from Spirit baptism. The 1 baptism of Eph 4:5 is the one baptism that all believers have it common (Spirit baptism). Eph 1 is not counting anyway, but if it were, it would be counting the baptism(s) that all believers (ye) have in common.

It cannot be giving the total of all Bible baptisms.

Water baptism is clearly distinguished from Spirit baptism, which was yet future in Acts 1 (not many days hence). That makes 2 baptisms.

There is a 3rd baptism mentioned, a special baptism which Christ suffered, which appears to refer to the crucifixion. But this 3rd baptism is something that some apostles would also endure. My explanation is that when a Christian is baptised by the Spirit & put into the Body of Christ, that accomplishes so intimate a union that the believer is said to have been baptised into Christ (Rom 6) and thus co-crucified, co-raised, and seated with Christ in Him in Heaven.
Gal 2 says "I have been crucified with Christ."

I take it that when one is baptised into the Body of Christ, that unites the believer with Christ's cross-baptism. And thus I understand this scripture:

But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink the cup that I drink? or to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? And they said unto him, We are able. And Jesus said unto them, The cup that I drink ye shall drink; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
52
48
Both verses are Christ's baptism of the great commission where disciples/humans were commissioned to go and administer water baptism, as Phillip did with the eunuch.
What is your proof of that?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
52
48
I see others contradicting the order of Acts 2:38 and MK 16:16 by trying to put salvation BEFORE water baptism. Not respecting the bible and order of events that God put in those verses is the problem here.
Baloney. Water baptism never saves in the Bible.
"What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved."

"

1 Peter 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believes him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes hath eternal life.

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believes on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believes not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto Jehovah;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believes on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he that believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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What I said is true. You cannot site Art Farstad in favor of water baptism saving. Acts 2:38 has been a controversial verse in intepretation. "Baptist" means very little except advocating believer's baptism (no infants). Aside from that, there are many variations of "baptists" -- there are probably hundreds of different "baptist" denominations believing quite different things.

The point is that Acts 2:38 does not prove that water baptism saves or brings remission of sins. People can argue over what the preposition eis means. Taking it to mean Spirit Baptism is a reasonable POV and it fits the context. Water baptism cannot save because it is a human work. Salvation is offered so many, many times without any reference to any baptism and only for believing, that one can safely conclude that water baptism is not essential to salvation.

AS far I am am concerned there is NOTHING controversial about Acts 2:38 where Peter commanded his listeners to repent and be baptized for remission of sins.

Peter connected repent to baptized with he conjunction "and" meaning the two can never be separated and he put both repentance and baptism BEFORE remission of sins.

Peter commanded repentance and baptism, and that command, if for no other reason, makes them both essential to salvation else one fins himself in disobedience to God. Not doing as God commands is unrighteousness. Doing as God commands is righteousness. So in Acts 10:35 Peter said those that work righteousness" are accepted with God, those that obey the command to rpent and be baptized are working God's righteousness and therefore God accepts them.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
52
48
The thief is not a valid argument for he lived and died under the OT law and therefore is not an example of NT salvation.
The thief is in the NT.
There is only one way in the entire Bible to be saved, that is by faith/belief. Abraham is the great example. We are saved the same way Abe was. (see Romans & Gal)
 
Mar 12, 2014
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The thief is in the NT.
There is only one way in the entire Bible to be saved, that is by faith/belief. Abraham is the great example. We are saved the same way Abe was. (see Romans & Gal)
But the OT law was still in effect.

Heb 9:16;17 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

So Christ being the Testator of the NT covenant would have to first die BEFORE that testament comes into effect. So the NT was not in effect when Christ promised the thief paradise.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The bible does not promise anyone today baptism with the HS. The false idea is created out of thin air for no other reason than try to find a way to get around the necessity of water baptism.
Yep. I so want to get out of it. Oh Wait. I was baptised in water, in front of over 400 people. By my pastor after I gave my testimony.

well crap. there goes your argument, If I wanted to get out of it. I would never have done it freely, willfully, and excitedly.

Next!
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Baloney. Water baptism never saves in the Bible.
"What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved."

"

1 Peter 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believes him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes hath eternal life.

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believes on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believes not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto Jehovah;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believes on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he that believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Why did you CHERRY-PICK out verses that mentions "believing" while ignoring the verses that shows one must also repent, confess and be baptized, Lk 13:3,5; Mt 10:32,33 Mk 16:16?

Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

You shunned to give me all the counsel of God by cherry-picking just certain verses.


You also ignore that "believe" can be used as a synecdoche were it stands for baptism:

Acts 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:

Acts 2:44 And all that believed were together

So who were the ones that "believed" in verse 44? The ones baptized of v41 or the ones that rejected Peter's words and baptism?

The ones that "believed" in v44 are the ones that accepted Peter's words and were baptized, so "believed" of v44 INCLUDES baptism.

In 1 Pet 3:21 when Peter said "
baptism doth also now save us" Peter did NOT mean "baptism alone" saves but 'baptism" is being used as a synecdoche where it INCLUDES belief, repentance and confession.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Yep. I so want to get out of it. Oh Wait. I was baptised in water, in front of over 400 people. By my pastor after I gave my testimony.

well crap. there goes your argument, If I wanted to get out of it. I would never have done it freely, willfully, and excitedly.

Next!
Were you water baptised for remission of sins as Peter commanded in Acts 2:38?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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Rom 6 says nothing about a "spirit baptism".
Rom 6:

"We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein? Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?"

It is not baptized into water, but into Christ Jesus. Because Spirit Baptism puts on into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13), I take this as Spirit baptism. (or do you want 4 baptisms?)
There is not a drop of water in Roman 6.



"We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection; knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away, that so we should no longer be in bondage to sin; for he that hath died is justified from sin. But if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him; knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death no more hath dominion over him. For the death that he died, he died unto sin once: but the life that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Even so reckon ye also yourselves to be dead unto sin, but alive unto God in Christ Jesus."


Rom 6 is the one baptism of Eph 4:5 which is a literal immersion in water
If there is but one baptism, how do you account for John Bapt distinguishing water baptism from Spirit baptism, saying it was future? How do you account for Christ having a baptism which he said some apostles would also have? All were already water baptised. If this is a different baptism, how can there be but one?

What is your proof that the baptism in Eph 4 is water baptism?
Where does it say "water"?


the baptism of Christ's great commission that involved humans/disciples administering water baptism.
So what? How do you know that Mat 28 refers to the same baptism as Mark 16?

The baptism in Rom 6 involves a "burial" that one is "raised up from" which would indicate a burial in water from which one is raised up from to walk in newness of life.
How do you know that? How do you know that the baptism into Christ of Rom 6 is not a matter of being incorporated into Christ so that His experiences become the believer's experiences? So Christians were co-crucified, co-buried, co-raised, and seated with Christ in the Heavens.

Why does Rom 6 say baptised into Christ instead of into water?

Water baptism is what they obeyed from the heart Rom 6;17,18, where then they were justified.
So they were already justified before the water? Where does Rom 6:17-18 mention water? How do you know that Rom 6:17-18 means water baptism?

One can obey God's command to be water baptized, yet God never commanded anyone to be baptized with the HS for that baptism was only a promise made to the apostles in Acts 1;1-5. So no one can obey a promise made to another person.
How do you import obeying a command with Spirit Baptism? Spirit Baptism is not obeying a command. It is something God does to all believers. That is a big difference with water baptism. Water baptism is a human work which cannot save -- and you are forbidden to think it does. In fact to think that is itself a big sin. Eph 2! Spirit baptism is not a human work, but God's work."

In Rom 6;17,18 obeying by being water baptized, then they were FREED from sin.
Water baptism is not mentioned. You are making things up. Are you freed from sin?

Rom 6:7 says For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Water baptism is where the old man of sins dies and is buried freeing the one being baptized from those sins where he then rises to walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:7 does not say "freed" in the Greek.
And Rom 6:7 says nothing about water baptism. Water baptism does none of what you say. Incorporation in Christ (baptized into Christ) does have great effects.

Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ

So it is in water baptism that one is dead with Christ freeing him from sins/justified.


You make things up. Water is not in the passage.

Faith only ior baptism with the HS is not to be found in any of this in Rom 6.
the Baptism is baptism into Christ, not water.

Justification by faith has already been established in Romans.
Since all believers & only believers were Spirit baptized, it is faith in Christ which is essential for Spirit baptism.

The passage continues in Rom 7 where it says, "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ;"

Death was accomplied through the Body of Christ. This must be the same as Baptism into Christ (Rom 6). 1 Cor 12:13 tells us that it is Spirit baptism which puts us into the Body of Christ.

There is not a drop of water in Rom 6. The baptism is into Christ, not into water.


 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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48
Were you water baptised for remission of sins as Peter commanded in Acts 2:38?
Acts 2:38 mentions no water. The baptism in context is Spirit baptism. It is repent and be baptized eis (proposition of various meanings).
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
52
48
Why did you CHERRY-PICK out verses that mentions "believing" while ignoring the verses that shows one must also repent, confess and be baptized, Lk 13:3,5; Mt 10:32,33 Mk 16:16?
You are the cherry-picker, not I. You pick rare verses. I post the general counsel of God, by which your cherries have to be pitted.

The vast number of verses I posted cannot be called cherry picking. It is the truth of God repeated over & over. Here, have some more (It won't all fit in one post); These are at least water melons, not cherries:

Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. [This I gave before]

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.

2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Acts 2:38 mentions no water. The baptism in context is Spirit baptism. It is repent and be baptized eis (proposition of various meanings).

No. this is water baptism.

Only those who had received the gift of the spirit was commanded to be baptized. (not everyone like Seaby wants you to believe.

The english text is a poor text which did not interpret it correctly.