baptism of the Holy Ghost

[Euphemia]

by observable do you mean speaking in tongues out loud?

is it fair to say, then, that at the time a person is baptized by the holy spirit, they speak in tongues out loud?

Not every time, but often, they do.


.

 

[KennethC]

My point is that there are two separate events in the life of a believer---the obedience to the baptism in water, and the subsequent (mostly) baptism in the Holy Spirit (and fire---not water).


.

The baptism that places us in the body of Christ is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and only God can give that to His children.

It is the Holy Spirit that seals us to the day of redemption, but you in the past have placed people saved and having salvation that have not received the Holy Spirit yet or received Him at all.

That is false teaching and does not align with the Word of God !!!

It is a bad fearful thing to pass off teachings of man as coming from Christ, especially when they clearly do not align with scripture.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.


This scripture is Holy Spirit baptism not water baptism..............

 

[blondieindahouse]

Claims mean nothing. I know very young Christians (in years), even children, who are more mature spiritually than people who have been saved for decades.




Why do you so quickly go to a negative intention? Come now. Let's be adults. Perhaps you can reword your request in a more plain way?


.

The point I was making is that I find it rather telling those who claim this "extra" something something dont seem to ACT any holier or more empowered than those of us who dont claim this "extra" something something!
That was my point.

 

[KennethC]

Yes, every believer in the New Testament would have experienced the subsequent baptism of the Holy Spirit. Tongues is not the barometer of that experience. The tongues gift that Paul was talking about in conjunction with all the others is the prophetic gift that God uses to speak to the assembly. Of course not everyone has that gift, but we all, when baptized in the Holy Spirit are able to pray in tongues if we so desire to seek after it.

It is not a command to do so, but it is a blessing to us, as God edifies the believer who speaks to Him in such an intimate exchange.


.

That is a cop-out in the teachings you have received, as what Paul is speaking of in the speaking in tongues is the two ways the gift is ministered by the Holy Spirit.

Only in known human languages is it done openly to the members, anything else is to be done in private !!!

That is the point I am trying to get to you is that there is only 2 forms of tongues mentioned in scripture from the Holy Spirit.

That is it, no more no less, and one is done to edify the body (known human languages) and the other is to edify self (prayer language <----not to be done openly and out loud).

 

[Dan_473]

Neglecting water baptism, while commanded for the believer, doesn't keep people out of the family of God. Note well that only believers are commanded to be baptized, which means they have received salvation already. you cannot be saved by water, but the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin through our faith in Jesus Christ as Saviour.


.

I believe you wrote earlier, "The baptism in water and the baptism in the Holy Spirit---the baptism of fire---are both part of the baptism of Jesus Christ."

so, it sounds like if a person isn't baptized by the holy spirit, they aren't baptized by Jesus.

can a person be part of the body of Christ without having been baptized by Jesus?

 

[Dan_473]

Holy Spirit desires to anoint every believer. However, believers need to submit to Him in order to experience His in-filling, His baptism.

wait, the in-filling of the holy spirit is the same as the baptism of the holy spirit?

 

[KennethC]

by observable do you mean speaking in tongues out loud?

is it fair to say, then, that at the time a person is baptized by the holy spirit, they speak in tongues out loud?

If they are speaking in tongues and it is done out loud and it is not human languages and if there is nobody there interpreting it then it is wrong and thus not from the Holy Spirit !!!

The Holy Spirit will not administer His gifts contradictory to the ways mentioned in scripture.........

Now the spirit of anti-christ will mock and mimic things of God to fool people into thinking they are following Him when they are really following a lie !!!

 

[blondieindahouse]

That is a cop-out in the teachings you have received, as what Paul is speaking of in the speaking in tongues is the two ways the gift is ministered by the Holy Spirit.

Only in known human languages is it done openly to the members, anything else is to be done in private !!!

That is the point I am trying to get to you is that there is only 2 forms of tongues mentioned in scripture from the Holy Spirit.

That is it, no more no less, and one is done to edify the body (known human languages) and the other is to edify self (prayer language <----not to be done openly and out loud).

I had a friend start to do this blabbing thing when we were praying. I stopped the prayer ASAP. I told him it wasnt edifying me.The gift of tongues adheres to guidelines according to scripture. So in other words; if it doesnt,it is the wrong spirit.

Another time I had a bunch of ladies praying for me and they all started this babbling. I was very uncomfortable and needless to say,I fled from that false church

 

[Dan_473]

Good thread I too was very sceptical about tounges. I had been a believer for many years but had never been taught about tounges. One night I was going through a difficult time in my walk and just cried out to God to fix me my walk was like a rollercoaster with many dips and curves never really where I felt I should've after all this time. Right then the Holy Spirit just infilled me like rushing water and fire my whole being shook for nearly an hour.I fell asleep with such a peace and a spirit of thankfulness and in the morning I woke up with a peace and contentment I had never know. I have forever been changed by that experience and it is for any who would ask,seek or knock. There are many things God will reveal to those who draw near.He searches the whole earth looking for those who's heart is pure for Him.

yep

don't get drunk on booze (not saying that you were)
rather
be filled with the holy spirit.

 

[Euphemia]

I had a friend start to do this blabbing thing when we were praying. I stopped the prayer ASAP. I told him it wasnt edifying me.

Wow, knowing full well that tongues edifies the believer who speaks it, you would insinuate yourself into the prayer of a brother and stop Him from communing with God?

That is appalling. It isn't about you.

The gift of tongues adheres to guidelines according to scripture. So in other words; if it doesnt,it is the wrong spirit.

Another time I had a bunch of ladies praying for me and they all started this babbling. I was very uncomfortable and needless to say,I fled from that false church

This is what ignorance and envy of the gifts acts like. That is the kind discordant, negative spirit that the word of God denounces.


.

 

[Dan_473]

Well baptism my not have included any tounges with your experience. For me when I was first baptized with water I had no experience with tounges either. Was nearly 20 years later I was baptized with the Holy Spirit an one morning shortly after woke up with a song of tounges coming out of me. Having not been in a church that believed such things for twenty years I then changed churches lol

*one morning shortly after*

in this experience, then, tongues did not occur at the same time as the reported baptism of the holy spirit.

 

[KennethC]

I had a friend start to do this blabbing thing when we were praying. I stopped the prayer ASAP. I told him it wasnt edifying me.The gift of tongues adheres to guidelines according to scripture. So in other words; if it doesnt,it is the wrong spirit.

Another time I had a bunch of ladies praying for me and they all started this babbling. I was very uncomfortable and needless to say,I fled from that false church

Exactly if it is not ministered by the way the Word of God states then it is not of the Holy Spirit......

Speaking in tongues in front of others when the others don't know what in the world they are saying is wrong and not one of the tongues mentioned in scripture.

 

[KennethC]

Wow, knowing full well that tongues edifies the believer who speaks it, you would insinuate yourself into the prayer of a brother and stop Him from communing with God?

That is appalling. It isn't about you.



This is what ignorance and envy of the gifts acts like. That is the kind discordant, negative spirit that the word of God denounces.


.

If she heard them doing it then they were doing it wrong, thus it can not be by the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit will not lead a person to do His gifts in a way contradictory to what the Word of God says, and in prayer it is to be done in silent not out loud !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Corinthians 14:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.


One does have to speak with his voice...it is a good thing to not be loud and be a distraction in a church setting unless of course everyone is praying for a special reason or worshipping the Lord...

....I pray in the spirit while playing racquetball very quietly but if you were real close you might hear me...sometimes I just sing in to guess..that was they just think I am foreign and happy..lol

KennethC ...Do you speak in tongues in your prayer time with the Lord?

 

[blondieindahouse]

Wow, knowing full well that tongues edifies the believer who speaks it, you would insinuate yourself into the prayer of a brother and stop Him from communing with God?

That is appalling. It isn't about you.



This is what ignorance and envy of the gifts acts like. That is the kind discordant, negative spirit that the word of God denounces.


.

Your words are getting more colorful. Careful. Choose your words because I am certainly trying

Appalling?
He was praying for me!! The gift of tongues is for his communion in PRIVATE with God and it is not edifying me. There wasnt an interpreter present. So according to what paul told the corinthians he was out of order.
Envy of the gifts? LOL
Okayyyyyyyy
I have a gift. Mine is according to scripture

 

[Euphemia]

Exactly if it is not ministered by the way the Word of God states then it is not of the Holy Spirit......

Speaking in tongues in front of others when the others don't know what in the world they are saying is wrong and not one of the tongues mentioned in scripture.

Yes, it is unwise to erupt in tongues in the presence of those who do not understand the gift, and especially so when praying over that same person. It can cause offense, which in blondie's case, it did. That kind of offense can fester and cause the person to willfully continue in unbelief concerning tongues. The Christian must not allow that, because it hinders, and should study and ask God about this and wait for His voice in the matter.


.

 

[Euphemia]

If she heard them doing it then they were doing it wrong, thus it can not be by the Holy Spirit.

That is not necessarily so. What was wrong was insulting God and interrupting someone's communing with Him. If she was offended, she need only step away. Kindness is a fruit of the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit will not lead a person to do His gifts in a way contradictory to what the Word of God says, and in prayer it is to be done in silent not out loud !!!

Stopping someone from praying to God as if that person was praying to her is not of God. It is pride. Personal offense can lead a person to hurt people.


.

 

[Euphemia]

Your words are getting more colorful. Careful. Choose your words because I am certainly trying

Appalling?
He was praying for me!! The gift of tongues is for his communion in PRIVATE with God and it is not edifying me. There wasnt an interpreter present. So according to what paul told the corinthians he was out of order.
Envy of the gifts? LOL
Okayyyyyyyy
I have a gift. Mine is according to scripture

Is this person still your friend? How was His praying for you under the anointing of the Holy Spirit on your behalf insulting to you? There would have been power in it, and you short-circuited it. He was being edified in its use. Not you. The edification wasn't for you unless you joined in with him. You were out of order with intolerance for a fellow believer.


.

 

[KennethC]

1 Corinthians 14:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.


One does have to speak with his voice...it is a good thing to not be loud and be a distraction in a church setting unless of course everyone is praying for a special reason or worshipping the Lord...

....I pray in the spirit while playing racquetball very quietly but if you were real close you might hear me...sometimes I just sing in to guess..that was they just think I am foreign and happy..lol

KennethC ...Do you speak in tongues in your prayer time with the Lord?

Some times I do and some times I don't, but the point is that is to be done in silent........

There is nowhere in the Word of God that allows the speaking in tongues to be done aloud in front of others when no interpreter is interpreting. If you are doing that then you are doing it wrongly and thus can not come from the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit will not have His gifts done contradictory to what the Word of God says...

 

[blondieindahouse]

That is not necessarily so. What was wrong was insulting God and interrupting someone's communing with Him. If she was offended, she need only step away. Kindness is a fruit of the Spirit.



Stopping someone from praying to God as if that person was praying to her is not of God. It is pride. Personal offense can lead a person to hurt people.


.

Stopping someone from praying to God as if that person was praying to her is not of God. It is pride. Personal offense can lead a person to hurt people.

We were on the phone. I didnt hang up on him. I was being kind.
Misusing a gift can hurt people too and its better to call the offense rather than offend the Lord