Bearing fruit

[blue_ladybug]

Grace is grace. Plain and simple as that. Ain't no hyper, hypo, grace. Just grace, pure grace.

 

[God4me]

earlier I agreed with you. but now I say, look in the mirror when you make this statement. I know why you and others do not like me, I am brash give it right back. I do not fear lying legalists. but why yall are so harsh with grace777x7 is beyond me. he is one of the nicest guys, uses a ton of Scripture, and constantly glorifies God 's grace through Christ.

Just because he is nice, it doesn't stop his false teachings deceiving people.

 

[gb9]

Just because he is nice, it doesn't stop his false teachings deceiving people.

this coming from a guy who thinks it is a sin not to wear a suit and tie to church. so your falsehoods are meaningless. grace777x7 speaks tons of truth. I do not agree with everything he says, but he out-truths you by leaps and bounds.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

I believe there is a true Grace of God and a false one though.

Someone can turn the grace of God into something corrupt

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ

So although grace is grace, someone might refer to the kind of grace they are speaking of (and rather than the true grace of God) in the sense as it might be put forth by the scripture, and they are simply putting a difference between, but in the sense of which they might be speaking.

 

[gb9]

I believe there is a true Grace of God and a false one though.

Someone can turn the grace of God into something corrupt

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ

So although grace is grace soeone might refer to the kind of grace they are speaking of (and rather than the true grace of God) in the sense as it is put forth by the scripture they are simply putting a difference in the sense of which they might be speaking.

correct. no one here is doing this though. certainly not grace777x7. he glorifies the Grace of God toward us, without it we all burn because we all deserve hell. all of us. we do not " be good enough" to earn grace. it is a gift. this is what he says everyday. but since this does not line up with your works-based mindset, you attack it.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

correct. no one here is doing this though. certainly not grace777x7. he glorifies the Grace of God toward us, without we all burn. all of us. we do not " be good enough" to earn grace. it is a gift. this is what he says everyday. but since this does not line up with your works-based mindset, you attack it.

I gave an example, but I dont much care who it is, if it is a different grace than what one might perceive as Gods in truth I would rather not turn Gods grace or truth into a lie, so for me its good to put a difference when speaking of which doctrine one is against so not to confuse others in that you are speaking against what you might believe is Gods true (verses anothers false).

 

[gb9]

I gave an example, but I dont much care who it is, if it is a different grace than what one might perceive as Gods in truth I would rather not turn Gods grace or truth into a lie, so for me its good to put a difference when speaking of which doctrine one is against so not to confuse others in that you are speaking against what you might believe is Gods true (verses anothers false).

the only grace that is a false grace would be where one said " you just receive God's grace, and then it does not matter what you do, how you live." that is " false grace" as you pointed out from Jude. but just because a person talks more about the Grace of God than speaks against sin, that does not mean " false grace" .

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

the only grace that is a false grace would be where one said " you just receive God's grace, and then it does not matter what you do, how you live." that is " false grace" as you pointed out from Jude. but just because a person talks more about the Grace of God than speaks against sin, that does not mean " false grace" .

The true grace of God teaches against indulging in sin and/or obeying sin in the lust thereof

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

As Grace is given for the obedience of the faith.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Being righteous to be saved and to stay saved is completely different to being righteous because you are saved and thus empowered by God.

It's not a straw man at all.

Either you are righteous by Him or by you.

If you want to play the Scripture new and old game, I can pull out plenty of verses myself.

Speaking of straw men, labeling people by their doctrine as "hyper grace" or "false grace" teachers is about as dishonest as you can be.

I've noticed you complain about being labeled and defend those accusations, so afford others the same respect, people are not Joseph Prince clones.

They read Scripture and they believe what they believe. Just as you do. None of us are perfectly correct. We can all learn from each other if we choose to serve one another in humility and honor. Just as Christ empowers us to do.

It is a straw man because no one here is preaching "self righteousness" or "DIY self righteousness" that is constantly being injected into every thread in order to try to misrepresent those who preach and teach an obedient walk of faith by being empowered by Christ our righteousness. If I had a nickel every time Grace 777 has used that straw man phrase in these forums, then I would have a truck load of nickels. LOL They also try to inject the "legalism" and "works Salvationism" straw man into many discussions against those who oppose their false doctrine, but no one here is preaching we are saved by our own self righteous works of the law, that is totally false.

And those whom you say we have labeled as "Hyper grace" followers are in fact just that, because they constantly bombard the forum with "Hyper grace" doctrine. Hyper grace is a doctrine that people follow, but we who know the truth have exposed that doctrine for what it is, a false grace message. So no, there is no false labeling when it is openly known by them who profess it. So it's no big secret who these Hyper grace followers are, or who the Joseph Prince followers are, as they have posted and supported all kinds of his teachings and videos on these forums.

They confess openly that they follow the Hyper grace teaching of Joseph Prince, but we do not confess that we preach "works Salvationism" or "DIY self righteousness" And that is the big difference between the truth and the lie.

 

[gb9]

The true grace of God teaches against indulging in sin and/or obeying sin in the lust thereof

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

As Grace is given for the obedience of the faith.

if you keep reading, Titus 3 sums up the grace of God nicely.

 

[Cee]

Exactly.

Grace empowers to not sin.

That's why we don't need to force people to be righteous. We teach them about grace. And His grace works in us the will and power to follow Him.

But this is missing the biggest point in Scripture, following Him looks like love, peace, gentleness, patience, etc. And these qualities are missing from those who only preach against sin. It is they who are false teachers with no fruit, completely blind by their self-righteousness. Because preaching against sin does not empower us to love. And without love, we are in sin.

The true grace of God teaches against indulging in sin and/or obeying sin in the lust thereof

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

As Grace is given for the obedience of the faith.

 

[gb9]

It is a straw man because no one here is preaching "self righteousness" or "DIY self righteousness" that is constantly being injected into every thread in order to try to misrepresent those who preach and teach an obedient walk of faith by being empowered by Christ our righteousness. If I had a nickel every time Grace 777 has used that straw man phrase in these forums, then I would have a truck load of nickels. LOL They also try to inject the "legalism" and "works Salvationism" straw man into many discussions against those who oppose their false doctrine, but no one here is preaching we are saved by our own self righteous works of the law, that is totally false.

And those whom you say we have labeled as "Hyper grace" followers are in fact just that, because they constantly bombard the forum with "Hyper grace" doctrine. Hyper grace is a doctrine that people follow, but we who know the truth have exposed that doctrine for what it is, a false grace message. So no, there is no false labeling when it is openly known by them who profess it. So it's no big secret who these Hyper grace followers are, or who the Joseph Prince followers are, as they have posted and supported all kinds of his teachings and videos on these forums.

They confess openly that they follow the Hyper grace teaching of Joseph Prince, but we do not confess that we preach "works Salvationism" or "DIY self righteousness" And that is the big difference between the truth and the lie.

the LIE is that we can be good enough to be saved by our own merit. the lie is we have to be " good enough" for God to accept us. the truth is God accepts us, then we go and do good. you have it backwards. Titus 3.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The true grace of God teaches against indulging in sin and/or obeying sin in the lust thereof

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

As Grace is given for the obedience of the faith.

Amen, and Amen.

 

[Cee]

You say you don't, but your teaching says it.

And I have yet to see you to show how you don't. You teach righteousness to stay saved. Yes or no?

It is a straw man because no one here is preaching "self righteousness" or "DIY self righteousness" that is constantly being injected into every thread in order to try to misrepresent those who preach and teach an obedient walk of faith by being empowered by Christ our righteousness. If I had a nickel every time Grace 777 has used that straw man phrase in these forums, then I would have a truck load of nickels. LOL They also try to inject the "legalism" and "works Salvationism" straw man into many discussions against those who oppose their false doctrine, but no one here is preaching we are saved by our own self righteous works of the law, that is totally false.

And those whom you say we have labeled as "Hyper grace" followers are in fact just that, because they constantly bombard the forum with "Hyper grace" doctrine. Hyper grace is a doctrine that people follow, but we who know the truth have exposed that doctrine for what it is, a false grace message. So no, there is no false labeling when it is openly known by them who profess it. So it's no big secret who these Hyper grace followers are, or who the Joseph Prince followers are, as they have posted and supported all kinds of his teachings and videos on these forums.

They confess openly that they follow the Hyper grace teaching of Joseph Prince, but we do not confess that we preach "works Salvationism" or "DIY self righteousness" And that is the big difference between the truth and the lie.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

the LIE is that we can be good enough to be saved by our own merit. the lie is we have to be " good enough" for God to accept us. you have it backwards.

Show me where I have said what you just accused me of. And when you cannot, then we will know for sure just who the liar really is.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

if you keep reading, Titus 3 sums up the grace of God nicely.

I might not understand why you assume I havent read Titus 3 but its a good chapter as are the rest of them.

 

[gb9]

when yesterday, you just threw up 1st John 3-8 and wrongly said that verse means that if a person sins, he is of the devil, and would thereby be disqualified from salvation. 1st of all, that is talking about I sinful lifestyle, not individual mistakes and failures. if that were the case, he just contradicted himself from chapter 1. 2, by mis-interptating that verse. you ( wrongly) implied that a person has to be sinless for God to accept them, meaning we save ourself by our own merit. so, you did not directly say it, but you certainly implied it.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You say you don't, but your teaching says it.

And I have yet to see you to show how you don't. You teach righteousness to stay saved. Yes or no?

Then you do not understand what I teach. And here is the answer to your question...

Abiding in Christ's righteousness to stay saved, yes. That is what Jesus referred to about abiding in Him and He in us, but He also told us of the consequences if we do not remain in Him.


Now you answer me this. If one who is previously saved does not remain and abide in Christ's righteousness, but turns away from the faith back to unrepentant wilful sin, not to return again, are they still saved? Yes, or no?

 

[Cee]

Well good now you have an idea how people are hearing your teaching.

So abiding in His righteousness to stay saved.

What empowers us to abide in Him?

Is it you or is it Him?

Then you do not understand what I teach. And here is the answer to your question...

Abiding in Christ's righteousness to stay saved, yes. That is what Jesus referred to about abiding in Him and He in us, but He also told us of the consequences if we do not remain in Him.


Now you answer me this. If one who is previously saved does not remain and abide in Christ's righteousness, but turns away from the faith back to unrepentant wilful sin, not to return again, are they still saved? Yes, or no?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

when yesterday, you just threw up 1st John 3-8 and wrongly said that verse means that if a person sins, he is of the devil, and would thereby be disqualified from salvation. 1st of all, that is talking about I sinful lifestyle, not individual mistakes and failures. if that were the case, he just contradicted himself from chapter 1. 2, by mis-interptating that verse. you ( wrongly) implied that a person has to be sinless for God to accept them, meaning we save ourself by our own merit. so, you did not directly say it, but you certainly implied it.

Still waiting for my own words in a quote to prove your false accusations.