Beast with Two Horns Like a Lamb

[Therapon]

There's a lot of evil in the world and no one is really deceived by Islam, except the Muslims themselves. A false prophet is a wolf in sheep's clothing. How can this be Islam when they are so blatantly the wolf?

YOU know Islam is the wolf, but many do not. So-called Christian pastors are even inviting Muslim imams to preach from their pulpits. Our present president, the head of the CIA and many of our government officials are Muslims. Many so-called Christians think Islam is just another road to heaven, but they would not if they knew the Bible or were listening to the Holy Spirit.

That Islam is not is another road to salvation is easily provable from Scripture! One of the major tenets in Islam is that God has no Son, but the Bible says, "He that hath not the Son hath not the Father, but he that hath the Son hath the Father also."

 

[Therapon]

Does the pope not also stand against?

Maybe, but despite the many popular doctrines to the contrary, the Pope is is not a central figure in Bible preophecy.

 

[Therapon]

The beast of rev 13 is the same as the final beast in rev 7. It is NOT Islam, it is rome. Some people!!

You make these pontifical remarks as if they come down from on High, without a shred of biblical support. If the Leopard-Bear-Lion beast is not Islam, prove it from the Bible and history.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You make these pontifical remarks as if they come down from on High, without a shred of biblical support. If the Leopard-Bear-Lion beast is not Islam, prove it from the Bible and history.

I already proved it. Read my next post after this one..

Try learning true scripture. and not your twisted view of it!

 

[Therapon]

The beast is not Islam. it is Rome..

So where in Daniel is Rome mentioned? How about nowhere, so that is guesswork theology. Furthermore the traditional view you espouse was imagined long before Daniel was opened: Daniel 12:9 "And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end," which did not begin until the new nation of Israel was established in 1948 and Jerusalem was freed of Gentile control in 1967 so any views out of Daniel, thought up before the end-time began, have to be at best immaginary and at worst, false doctrine.

Furthermore, as detailed in the original post, Daniel 7's Lion-Bear-Leopard shows us that the Leopard-Bear-Lion beast of Revelation 13 is an empire in their same geographic area, but during the Christial era. Rome is in Revelation, to be sure, but in chapter 17.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So where in Daniel is Rome mentioned? How about nowhere, so that is guesswork theology. Furthermore the traditional view you espouse was imagined long before Daniel was opened: Daniel 12:9 "And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end," which did not begin until the new nation of Israel was established in 1948 and Jerusalem was freed of Gentile control in 1967.

Furthermore, as detailed in the original post, Daniel 7's Lion-Bear-Leopard shows us that the Leopard-Bear-Lion beast of Revelation 13 is an empire in their same geographic area, but during the Christial era. Rome is in Revelation, to be sure, but in chapter 17.

wow, are you serious? You are so steeped in your own theology you can't see truth as it is written.

the 4th beast was rome, The one who took over the greecian empire. it was this beast which was in power in the time of Christ, It was this beast which destroyed the city and sanctuary (AD 70) and it is the future prince of this beast (the iron and clay) which will commit the abomination which makes desolate, and become the world empire greater than its former self.

And you want people to actually give you an ear and think you know scripture?

second of all. The lion, bear leppard is only a symbol to show us that this beast has characteristics of the three it destroyed, or that it covers the same area, which we already know through history, Rome covered this area and more..

so either way, it proves it is rome not Islam.

Islam is a religion. NOT A GENTILE KINGDOM!

 

[Therapon]

Did you mean "it was Rome"?

So you are questioning, good. <smile> Most Christians today have their brains in neutral, regurgitating what they read in the "Left Behind" series or Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth," without ever once having an original thought or asking themselves, "What if those guys were wrong?"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you are questioning, good. <smile> Most Christians today have their brains in neutral, regurgitating what they read in the "Left Behind" series or Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth," without ever once having an original thought or asking themselves, "What if those guys were wrong?"

this is what they get when they listen to men. and not study to see if what they said is true or not..

 

[Therapon]

wow, are you serious? You are so steeped in your own theology you can't see truth as it is written.

The lion, bear leppard is only a symbol to show us that this beast has characteristics of the three it destroyed, or that it covers the same area, which we already know through history, Rome covered this area and more.so either way, it proves it is rome not Islam.

Islam is a religion. NOT A GENTILE KINGDOM!

And it sounds like you, brother, have been so indocrinated by your views that you cannot even look at the possibility that they might be wrong. Like I quoted in an earlier post: Daniel 12:9 "And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end."

The end-times began with new Israel being established in 1948 and Jerusalem being freed of Gentile control in 1967, so any doctrines proposed from Daniel prior to those dates have to at best be pie-in-the-sky and at worst totally false doctrine. And when was the futurism you appear to support brought into the church? In 1591, by the Jesuit priest Ribera during the counter-reformation.

I am not trying to be offensive sir, but it would sure be nice if the people on this thread could look at Scripture and history without their questionable traditions getting in the way.

 

[Therapon]

this is what they get when they listen to men. and not study to see if what they said is true or not..

And it is extremely difficult to look at Scripture with fresh eyes, not allowing any of our questionable traditions to get in the way. I know, because I received my formal education from Columbia Bible College and Seminary, once the most conservative Dispensational school in the country. It took th Lord 35 years to break me out of their doctrinal straitjacket.

 

[shrimp]

Maybe, and I'm just throwing this out there, Thereupon and eternally-gratefull, you guys could present a little bit more clearly your ideas and beliefs, providing what you believe to be adequate proof, without trying to tear the other down. Cause, and I'm not sure if I'm the only one, I don't understand what either of y'all are saying, nor do I see, in most cases, evidence to back up your theories. I hope I don't sound mean or rude, I really am interested but I don't understand either of you and the added bickering isn't helping my confusion.

 

[Enow]

Of course Satan has his mark on his servants all over the world, but careful analysis of Revelation 13 shows the Mark of the Beast to be on the servants of the Leopard-Bear-Lion, in other words that mark is biblically on Muslims.

Not yet, it isn't.

Is it not written that those that receive the mark are destined for the lake of fire? If it is already on muslims, then how is it that there are stories of Jesus appearing to some of them in dreasm and they are now believing in Jesus Christ?

Plus, the significance of that mark is that those with the mark will only be able to buy and sell.

So you may want to hold back on such conclusions of that mark being on muslims, because that mark is not here yet.

 

[Enow]

YOU know Islam is the wolf, but many do not. So-called Christian pastors are even inviting Muslim imams to preach from their pulpits. Our present president, the head of the CIA and many of our government officials are Muslims. Many so-called Christians think Islam is just another road to heaven, but they would not if they knew the Bible or were listening to the Holy Spirit.

That Islam is not is another road to salvation is easily provable from Scripture! One of the major tenets in Islam is that God has no Son, but the Bible says, "He that hath not the Son hath not the Father, but he that hath the Son hath the Father also."

What about the prophesy involving that dream of that statue in Danile 2nd chapter?

Daniel 2 KJV - And in the second year of the reign of - Bible Gateway

How does that fit in? Doesn't that prophesy refers to more kingdoms than just the three that you mentioned?

Isn't the going teaching of the general consensus in christian circles that the former Roman Empire will be the the rise of the NWO with those nations you have mentioned?

 

[Therapon]

I already proved it. Read my next post after this one..

Try learning true scripture. and not your twisted view of it!

In my opinion, you have not. Instead, it appears you have interpreted Scripture to fit your doctrine. Quick example: Daniel's Lion-Bear-Leopard are provably the empires of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece.

But according to you, Revelation 13's Leopard-Bear-Lion beast is not an empire in the same geographic area?

I would be rolling on the floor laughing my head off if your avoidance of such an blindingly obvious truth wasn't so tragic.

 

[shrimp]

Nevermind then. I have lost interest and will therefor bow out of this thread. Good day, gentlemen.

 

[Therapon]

[QUOTE=Enow;920280]What about the prophesy involving that dream of that statue in Danile 2nd chapter? How does that fit in? Doesn't that prophesy refers to more kingdoms than just the three that you mentioned? Isn't the going teaching of the general consensus in christian circles that the former Roman Empire will be the the rise of the NWO with those nations you have mentioned?[/QUOTE]

1. Yes, there are four kingdoms in the Great Image, the last being the two legs of iron, universally accepted as Rome. However, after the fall of the Roman empire, the next power to take control in the Holy Land was Islam, the Leopard-Bear-Lion beast of Revelation 13, so I was focusing on them.

2. Yes, the general consesus among Christian eschatologists is that a New World Order under Antichrist will be the final government on the planet before Jesus returns. The events in the Holy Land of 1948 and 1967 opened prophetic Sctiptures in a new way so I no longer believe that popular scenario to be correct.

For instance, it can now be proven that the beasts in Revelation, the Two Witnesses, the Seven Seals, and the Seven Trumpets are not events in our future! In fact, all have been fulfilled during the Christian era and we are just moments away from King Jesus appearing in the sky! There isn’t going to be a seven-year tribulation in our future and no waiting for a final Antichrist, either. Just ever increasing natural disasters and unrest among peoples, particularly around Israel and the rest of the Middle East, until the last trumpet sounds and we’re in the eternal kingdom of God. Difficult realities to accept, perhaps, but true all the same.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And it sounds like you, brother, have been so indocrinated by your views that you cannot even look at the possibility that they might be wrong. Like I quoted in an earlier post: Daniel 12:9 "And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end."

You can't use this. Using it the way your trying to use it, No one should even listen to you, because no one could know.. PS. I do not even follow what I was brought up. So I am not going of what I was indoctrinated in..

The end-times began with new Israel being established in 1948 and Jerusalem being freed of Gentile control in 1967, so any doctrines proposed from Daniel prior to those dates have to at best be pie-in-the-sky and at worst totally false doctrine. And when was the futurism you appear to support brought into the church? In 1591, by the Jesuit priest Ribera during the counter-reformation.

I am not trying to be offensive sir, but it would sure be nice if the people on this thread could look at Scripture and history without their questionable traditions getting in the way.

Not to be offensive sir. But it appears you have gone so far to the other side, you wish to get rid of everything they believe. and insert your own view.

1. Daniels prophesies state that the beast will be in power until overthrown by Christ himself at his return.
2. It states that 3 1/2 years after the abomination of desolation this will occure..

Also to note. Jerusalem is still under gentile rule. if it was not, there owuld be no dome of the rock, there would be a jewish temple.

Stop thinking irrationally and start thinking logically. You would see your theory is based on not scripture. but personal view. The fact you refuse to admit rome was the 4th beast proves it.

 

[Therapon]

Maybe, and I'm just throwing this out there, Thereupon and eternally-gratefull, you guys could present a little bit more clearly your ideas and beliefs, providing what you believe to be adequate proof, without trying to tear the other down. Cause, and I'm not sure if I'm the only one, I don't understand what either of y'all are saying, nor do I see, in most cases, evidence to back up your theories. I hope I don't sound mean or rude, I really am interested but I don't understand either of you and the added bickering isn't helping my confusion.

I'm truly sorry, my dear, I'm a Bible teacher who hates debate. I don't ask people to come on a thread I began just to disagree with what I post. Got any suggestions?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And it is extremely difficult to look at Scripture with fresh eyes, not allowing any of our questionable traditions to get in the way. I know, because I received my formal education from Columbia Bible College and Seminary, once the most conservative Dispensational school in the country. It took th Lord 35 years to break me out of their doctrinal straitjacket.

I grew up steeped in scofield and darbyism. It took opening my eyes to things which did not make sense and did not line up with scripture to get me to study to change my view.

the problem I find is most theologies have some fact mixed in with alot of personal views which do not line up with scripture. It does not mean we throw everything in the belief out. it means we take what is scriptural in that belief, and line it up with the rest of scripture to see what is reality. You seem so set against all forms of dispensationalism, you want to throw it all out, and refuse to see the parts which they got correct!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In my opinion, you have not. Instead, it appears you have interpreted Scripture to fit your doctrine. Quick example: Daniel's Lion-Bear-Leopard are provably the empires of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece.

But according to you, Revelation 13's Leopard-Bear-Lion beast is not an empire in the same geographic area?

I would be rolling on the floor laughing my head off if your avoidance of such an blindingly obvious truth wasn't so tragic.

wow, you don;t listen do you?

My post was to show who the final beast was. Had nothing to do with who the first three were. Do you ever listen to anything anyone says?? or do you always read with your blinders on?

The roman empire held ALL the land the first three beasts held. Thus it IS the same geographical location.. But I already said this, you ignored what I said. so be it..