BEWARE the Lawkeepers

[homwardbound]

From this truth it is implicit the laws are being observed in Love, therefore they are not to be ignored rather observed as Yeshua, Jesus, has taught us to do by His Example, and by His teaching. These quotes only support obedience in love, they do not negate the Commandments of Yahweh one iota.

They do negate mankind's selfish interpretations of the Law though?
True love from God is to love all, if I only love those that love me, how would I be any different that the unbeliever. the sinner the tax collector.
So to demand one be as me, is a transgression of God's love is it not?
What changes ones mind, condemnation, or the kindness of God in Love to all through Son?

 

[homwardbound]

Did God offer any avenues for forgivrness when He gave the Law?

yes, one a year sacrifice, an innocent pure animal shedding its blood to atone for sin, once a year, never purging the worshipers from sin, as waht Christ's sacrifice for you and all is to do, purge our conscience from sin, to thanksgiving and praise in Spirit and truth, where no sin is happening at all or forever. And we are not focused on whether we sin or not, why?
Because by the sowing of one self nature, one sins, even if not want to, re-read Romans 7, where with the flesh I serve thew Law of sin and death, and with the hidden man of the new heart (Holy Spirit of God) You serve God and all in God's type of Love as in 1 Cor 13:4-7 that is the gift God gives to those that go from death of Christ to the resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth

 

[2Thewaters]

There’s nothing easy about loving the way God says to love with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength.
But if we love Yahweh with all the heart, soul, mind and strength,
we’re going to love those who he died for to take away their sinfulness.

And we’re going to believe that their sinfulness is only a temporary thing,
that they’re never going to be afflicted with again. T

hat he’s going to make some Joel 2 people,
who live without sin, on the face of the earth,
who meet Jesus in peace,
being like him when he returns.

And they will be like him in every aspect of character

because they have allowed him to abide within
and they have believed that,
what he says, he speaks the word only and it is so.

They have believed his word has all power in heaven and on earth
to make these things so,
to put love in our hearts where there is none,
to perfect us with the last point of perfection that we’re ever going to reach on the face of the earth.

This is the last step into the kingdom
and all we have to do is believe that these things are so in us.

Now you can go and forget I ever said any of these things about these different aspects.
But if you forget these things you won’t do them. I

t will mean that you devalued everything that God put before us in his word,

and that you counted it worthless for your salvation,
and you turned your back on it,
and said I don’t need that kind of love;

It’s up to you to make the decision whether you’re right or whether God's word is right.

Same question we had when we first started in God's word

It’s up to you tonight whether you’re going to follow GODS WORD AND WHAT IT SAYS EVEN IF YOU DONT LIKE IT
or whether you’re going to throw it all away by walking away and forgetting what’s required of you
to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[homwardbound]

Absolutely, I cannot do this on my own.
And absolutely God is the only one who can do it in me.
Yet it is still important to study the word to know how to live. If we are waiting for God to show us when and how to love, then He already has in the commands. And every time I do, it is only because God has prompted me to.

So truth to the whole is from God and God alone right? God calls and one hears while others do not, and yet all will ave heard from God to the call for life and have made their choice to beleive or not right?
therefore there is no excuse oh man, when the day of the great white throne Judgment is at hand
Thanks Matt Brother

 

[homwardbound]

Interesting, I do all of the exact same things you just mentioned. And I do it by living out every Word that proceeds out of God's mouth as directed by the Holy Spirit.

Including the Law.

So then you are under the Law of Liberty is this true?

 

[homwardbound]

Perhaps the Law had not been restated to a nation that had been in captivity for over 200 years but it had been given prior to Sinai...

Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

Now how could this be true unless the Law had been around already?

I think what was taught and in place before Moses and the Ten given was the Law of Faith, hey we better start believing god at what God says and trust God for we are as dead, because we did not believe and ate from that tree of death, whether we know right or wrong it was and is the tree of death
That Christ hung on and condemned at the cross of for us all; if we beleive it to be truth, we might die to self with Christ on that cross and see new life in Spirit and truth you think?

 

[john832]

No. what they tell you is HOW TO OBEY THE COMMANDS.

Do those two. and you will not break the others. and do what he wants.

It is also called the law of love.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[john832]

no I am not. there you go assuming again,

as I said, you need to stop assuming things, your making yourself look bad.

OK, straightforward question...

Do we still have to obey the Ten Commandments?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OK, straightforward question...

Do we still have to obey the Ten Commandments?

straight up answer. Your question is to open ended.

If I say yes, I agree we are under law and not under grace, (since you put the word must in the question)

if I say no. I am seen as a person claiming it is OK to sin all you want. (again since you put the word MUST in there)

and neither would be true.

a better and more sincere question would be,

should we obey them, or even better yet,

Can you obey them as required by the law? And can you be honest with yourself by saying you can not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The assumption is these are just the ten,

the reality is this is so much more than ten, and to be honest, as jesus himself said, All can be fulfilled by just two.

 

[2Thewaters]

Sounds like you are trying to weasel out of the ten to me.

 

[2Thewaters]

straight up answer. Your question is to open ended.

If I say yes, I agree we are under law and not under grace, (since you put the word must in the question)

if I say no. I am seen as a person claiming it is OK to sin all you want. (again since you put the word MUST in there)

and neither would be true.

a better and more sincere question would be,

should we obey them, or even better yet,

Can you obey them as required by the law? And can you be honest with yourself by saying you can not.

if you cannot keep them it means you are not following the still small voice
so just get born again and you can keep tham it is that simple
this is what Jesus wants - true love for him not a cloak of religion to cover sinful lifestyle...

Jesus abiding there and he is full of love. And then the works of love appear.

And the works of love aren’t like the works of love that people do in their relationships with one another upon the earth. H

is love wasn’t anything like that.
He didn’t do any of those manifestations of worldly love, t
hat we call worldly love, t
hat we call love.

He had a love that he healed the sick and raised the dead,
and cast out demons,
and taught people to repent and turn away from their sins
so that they could go into the kingdom of heaven.

He taught a holy spirit filled inspiration love.
He only spoke the words of his heavenly father. A

nd he only did the works that his heavenly father gave him to do.

And so we see there that in order for us to love,

we’re going to have to only speak the words
that the holy spirit gives us to speak.
And we’re going to have to only do the works t
hat the holy spirit wants us to do. A

nd anything else is superfluous. A
nything else is self.

In everything that I’ve gotten out of the word of God
there is a putting away of self ,
putting away of the ‘I wants’
and a putting on of ‘Yahweh’s will be done.’

And putting away everything that we want to do,
and everything that we want out of life. A

nd instead, listening to his voice to find out what he wants us to do. M
ost of us have spent our lives doing what we want to do and we’ve become hardened in doing our will be done. A

nd praying the prayer of ‘my will be done not yours, O
God, but my will be done.’ A
nd that’s a very selfish,
self centered prayer
that presupposes that we know more than God what is best.

And that if he would only do our will
then things would be better.
Which is really a stupid way to pray.

But the thing about our relationship to God
and our relationship of salvation through Yahshua t

he messiah is that he says his way is the only way.
He says, “I am the way, the truth and the life;”
and “no man comes to the father but by me.”

And he means very clearly that his way... ,
it’s his way or no way.

And so none of us are going to get into the kingdom our way.

If love is required and you don’t have it,
and the word of God says we don’t have it

we have to get love from him.

And so it’s like this requires going to him directly
and pleading for that which we do not have.

It requires a ‘give it to me or I perish’ type of prayer.

And it requires a change of heart and mind.

It requires you to go before the throne
and go before the mercy seat
and plead for that which you need.

Thanking him for what he’s given you
is sort praying like the pharisee.

I thank you that I’m not like the other people.
I thank you that I’m not a sinner
like this guy in the back row.
I thank you that I’ve been given the Bible, the word of God .

Well that’s nice.
It’s nice that we thank him for these things.

But what he wants is for you to be with him throughout eternity.

And you can thank him for being Laodicea a long time

and it doesn’t get you into the kingdom of heaven
any more than it gets Laodicea into the kingdom of heaven.

I thank you for making me rich
and increased in goods
and need of nothing.

I thank you for all this theology
and all this light that we have been given.
And it’s made me into a real jerk
if I don’t have Jesus abiding within.

And that’s the catch about going to heaven.

We have to have Jesus abiding within,
because he’s the only one going.
Everyone that goes is going to be abiding in Jesus.

And he’s going, and he’s going to take those with him that he knows,

that he knows personally inside and out.

Who have committed their lives to following him,

to following the light that he has given,
to following every word that proceeds from his mouth
and making it the light of our life.

The people of Joel 2 are a people
who march to and toward their master.

They march to the master and toward the master,
and they walk in his way.

And they don’t watch what people are doing on each side,
but they watch the master.

Follow Jesus.

 

[chubbena]

1. I agree, all scripture is given.

The law did its job, it led me to Christ.

2. I agree, those who love God keep his commands. They do it by fulfilling the law of love in themelves.

the law of moses can not help you do number 2. All if cna possibly do is give a starting point, but even then, there is so much more better examples. of how to love.

What is the greatest commandments in the Law? To love God and to love your neighbor.
Some interpret as all laws are hanged by these two.
Some interpret as all laws hang on these two.
To each his own.

 

[MrsRoseTreasure]

You might try not taking scripture out of context, which is the mark of the workers of iniquity:[SUP]19 [/SUP]“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

They are to go listen to the law of Moses being preached in every city. If there were not to keep the law why were they being sent to listen to the law? What sense does that make?

I wonder how Paul, a Torah Keeping Jew, is going to react in the kingdom when he realizes his words and letters intended to help others live like a better Jew were twisted and turned into an excuse to commit iniquity. I look forward to sitting at his feet and telling him how his letters encouraged me to keep the law, and not let others judge me for doing so. I wonder how he will react to you, specifically, telling others that Paul wanted them to sin and commit iniquity, because all of the law is done away with. I wonder if he'll laugh, or cry?

Here's some material that might help you understand Paul and the world he lived in a little better: The Pauline Paradox Series - Part 1 | 119 Ministries

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to COMMAND them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore WHY TEMPT YE GOD, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which NEITHER OUR FATHERS NOR WE WERE ABLE TO BEAR?

Act 15:11 But we believe THAT THROUGH THE GRACE OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WE SHALL BE SAVED, even as they.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is the greatest commandments in the Law? To love God and to love your neighbor.
Some interpret as all laws are hanged by these two.
Some interpret as all laws hang on these two.
To each his own.

I would say it is the second.

I have never heard the first.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if you cannot keep them it means you are not following the still small voice
so just get born again and you can keep tham it is that simple
this is what Jesus wants - true love for him not a cloak of religion to cover sinful lifestyle...

Jesus abiding there and he is full of love. And then the works of love appear.

And the works of love aren’t like the works of love that people do in their relationships with one another upon the earth. H

is love wasn’t anything like that.
He didn’t do any of those manifestations of worldly love, t
hat we call worldly love, t
hat we call love.

He had a love that he healed the sick and raised the dead,
and cast out demons,
and taught people to repent and turn away from their sins
so that they could go into the kingdom of heaven.

He taught a holy spirit filled inspiration love.
He only spoke the words of his heavenly father. A

nd he only did the works that his heavenly father gave him to do.

And so we see there that in order for us to love,

we’re going to have to only speak the words
that the holy spirit gives us to speak.
And we’re going to have to only do the works t
hat the holy spirit wants us to do. A

nd anything else is superfluous. A
nything else is self.

In everything that I’ve gotten out of the word of God
there is a putting away of self ,
putting away of the ‘I wants’
and a putting on of ‘Yahweh’s will be done.’

And putting away everything that we want to do,
and everything that we want out of life. A

nd instead, listening to his voice to find out what he wants us to do. M
ost of us have spent our lives doing what we want to do and we’ve become hardened in doing our will be done. A

nd praying the prayer of ‘my will be done not yours, O
God, but my will be done.’ A
nd that’s a very selfish,
self centered prayer
that presupposes that we know more than God what is best.

And that if he would only do our will
then things would be better.
Which is really a stupid way to pray.

But the thing about our relationship to God
and our relationship of salvation through Yahshua t

he messiah is that he says his way is the only way.
He says, “I am the way, the truth and the life;”
and “no man comes to the father but by me.”

And he means very clearly that his way... ,
it’s his way or no way.

And so none of us are going to get into the kingdom our way.

If love is required and you don’t have it,
and the word of God says we don’t have it

we have to get love from him.

And so it’s like this requires going to him directly
and pleading for that which we do not have.

It requires a ‘give it to me or I perish’ type of prayer.

And it requires a change of heart and mind.

It requires you to go before the throne
and go before the mercy seat
and plead for that which you need.

Thanking him for what he’s given you
is sort praying like the pharisee.

I thank you that I’m not like the other people.
I thank you that I’m not a sinner
like this guy in the back row.
I thank you that I’ve been given the Bible, the word of God .

Well that’s nice.
It’s nice that we thank him for these things.

But what he wants is for you to be with him throughout eternity.

And you can thank him for being Laodicea a long time

and it doesn’t get you into the kingdom of heaven
any more than it gets Laodicea into the kingdom of heaven.

I thank you for making me rich
and increased in goods
and need of nothing.

I thank you for all this theology
and all this light that we have been given.
And it’s made me into a real jerk
if I don’t have Jesus abiding within.

And that’s the catch about going to heaven.

We have to have Jesus abiding within,
because he’s the only one going.
Everyone that goes is going to be abiding in Jesus.

And he’s going, and he’s going to take those with him that he knows,

that he knows personally inside and out.

Who have committed their lives to following him,

to following the light that he has given,
to following every word that proceeds from his mouth
and making it the light of our life.

The people of Joel 2 are a people
who march to and toward their master.

They march to the master and toward the master,
and they walk in his way.

And they don’t watch what people are doing on each side,
but they watch the master.

Follow Jesus.

you still have not answered the question, are you sinless right now. and claim you will be sinless now until you die. and this is the only way you can be saved or not?

 

[2Thewaters]

You are going to get a temptation such as has never been on the earth before.

As in the days of Noah so shall it be at the coming of the son of man.
The people who believed in what they were being told, they knew it was inspiration, because they had heard inspiration before.

The ones who believed the message,
many of them didn’t get on board the ark.

It’s necessary for us to get on board the ark.

And the ark (love passport) in our situation
is to love God with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Jesus said, ‘If you love me, keep my commandments.’

And so it’s a different type of ark, isn’t it?

It’s an ark where Jesus tells us to do things and we do it because of love.

I have to receive power to do the different works that I have to do.
I have to put aside self in order to do what needs to be done.

I have to be empowered by the holy spirit to accomplish what I need to accomplish.

And I’ve told this many times. Many times I would get to a point ...It was like a mental block, and so I would stop and pray.

And many times I was still stopped.

It takes perseverance, it takes striving.

If God tells you to do something, he gives you the ability to do it.

And many of you came here from other places and he gave you the ability to get here. All his biddings are enablings.

He wants you to do something, so he tells you to do it.

He wants you to love so he tells you to do it.

When he tells you, ‘you don’t have love,’
and that he’s given you more time to get it,

by speaking that into existence,
it is a creation in everyone who believes it.

He’s putting love in you by the the word of God.

He’s told you that you can’t do it on your own.

We can do nothing of ourselves.

So he’s putting these things of 1 Corinthians 13 in you
by speaking them into existence.

And you’ve got to accept what he says as a new creation in you.

You have to believe that what he says in the word of God has the power,

the infinite power,

all power in heaven and on earth

that has been entrusted to the word made flesh, Yahshua the messiah.

You have to believe that he is empowering you to love
as you have never loved before.

Not as man loves but as Yahshua loved.
He, in his life, and correct me if I’m wrong,
but he went about doing good.

Okay. He gave his lunch to somebody, he fed the hungry,
he preached the gospel. He healed the sick.
He raised the dead and he cast out demons.

And set the captive free.
And he accomplished what his heavenly father wanted him to accomplish.

What he wants you to accomplish
is to overcome all your differences between you and anybody,
regardless of how bad they are,
regardless of how wicked they are,
regardless of how they hate you.

He wants you to overcome all that.
And he’s told you that without this love (this passport)
you cannot go in.

He set you aside until you get that.
And you can say, well he set someone else aside;
it wasn’t me.
I didn’t cause all this trouble.
You can say that,
but I know it’s not right because the word of God was sent out to you and everybody else in the church.

And if it was sent out to you and to everybody else in the church
then it means you’re the one it’s talking about.

And since you’re the one it’s talking about,
you can get over the idea that you’re righteous and somebody else is not righteous.

He has something to give us.
And what he’s given us is here in 1 Corinthians 13;
he’s giving us patience with one another.
He’s giving us kindness toward one another.
He is taking away our enviousness toward one another.
He’s taking away our vain display of self before one another.
He’s taking away our boasting to one another.
He’s taking away our indecent behavior toward one another.
He’s taking away our vain pursuit of our own stuff
and our own things and our own possessions.

He’s taking away our self defensiveness
so that we don’t protect ourselves
when someone attacks us.

We don’t need to defend ourselves.
Yahshua is our defense.
So he’s taking away all our defenses.

Do you remember when King David went out against Goliath?
He put on the kings armor and it was too heavy for him.
He put it aside and he went out without armor.
And it was a good thing,
because when he went out onto the field of battle,
Goliath saw that his opponent was a child who didn’t even have on armor.

And so Goliath thought that he didn’t need armor either.
But David had a different kind of armor;
he had the angels and the heavenly father protecting him.
He didn’t need to defend himself.

He was just there to win.
He wasn’t there to fight.
Jesus is taking away our thinking of evil.
He’s taking away our evil surmising.

Praise Jesus.

 

[KohenMatt]

The Law is to love and not one can love without first
1 John 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.

And all true love is shown through Mercy to all, you think?

Yes, love is often showed through mercy, but even that mercy should be demonstrated in some way, whether in word or deed or spirit, or all of the above.

 

[KohenMatt]

well sorry, But I can not buy this. I don't know you, and maybe you are one of the FEW (are there any? I really do not know. I have never met one) who can do this. But I have to be honest, and say I can not believe you.

If your so focused on the law. You will not be doing what God wants you to do to the person he has brought into your life. You will be focused instead on how good you are at following the law. And not even realise how bad you still are at truly following the law.

I am not speaking from what I believe, I am speaking from what I have experienced first hand, And saw for 30 years with people trying to do what you claim we should do.

Well let me say, with all do respect, you are wrong.

My focus is always on God and His Kingdom and seeing it built up. The reason why you might think I'm focusing on the Law so much is because were in the middle of a thread about the Law.

When I meet someone who is in need physically, mentally, emotionally, or spiritually (which is pretty much the root of all of those other struggles) I don't focus on their flesh or mine. I want what God wants, and I want to love them how they need to be loved, not necessarily the way I or they think they should be loved. But the fact of the matter is that that love will be demonstrated one way or another, and that is where the Law can come in. You might think I'm focusing on it by wanting to know how to love them, but in knowing God and His character and knowing how He wants me to live, serve, minister and love other through His instructions, I'm better prepared to do.

When you start a new job, you usually have to ask your boss how to do things right. What to do and when to do it. But eventually, you figure it out and you don't need to keep going to your boss for instruction. But you still do the things you were taught. You don't need your hand held anymore. You don't need the "tutor" or the "schoolmaster". You've already been taught.

And I've never once said how good I am at following the law. Any successful obedience I do doesn't mean squat unless it's done with the right heart and spirit. Sadly, I falter more than I should. Fortunately, there is forgiveness and redemption through God's atonement sacrifice. And that is the same forgiveness offered to Israel when they failed.

 

[KohenMatt]

I believe he is talking to me (wink)

Actually, no. I was talking to Waters