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2Thewaters
Guest
Beware the TRUTH!
it will CHANGE YOU
BEWARE BEWARE
the truth will change you!
that is what one demonic inpired elder once told me when I was a teen ager.
I recieved a NEW ENGLISH VERSION of the Bible and was reading it a nnd loved it
he came up and said
Watch out! dont go crazy!
people who read their Bible too much go crazy and leave the church
so I cut down in my reading and becdame like the world again
may that elder will recieve a hot reward for his evil influence on me
it took me 20 years to pick up the Bible again
and this time there was no demon possessed elder to warn me
and yes
reading your Bible WILL make you leave the false churches!
and will make you strong in the true churches!
so everyone should encourage everyone everywhere to read their Bibles and repent
repent repent and change
and if your Bible doesnt natch the old and new testament
change your religion to one who teaches the Bible.
it will CHANGE YOU
BEWARE BEWARE
the truth will change you!
that is what one demonic inpired elder once told me when I was a teen ager.
I recieved a NEW ENGLISH VERSION of the Bible and was reading it a nnd loved it
he came up and said
Watch out! dont go crazy!
people who read their Bible too much go crazy and leave the church
so I cut down in my reading and becdame like the world again
may that elder will recieve a hot reward for his evil influence on me
it took me 20 years to pick up the Bible again
and this time there was no demon possessed elder to warn me
and yes
reading your Bible WILL make you leave the false churches!
and will make you strong in the true churches!
so everyone should encourage everyone everywhere to read their Bibles and repent
repent repent and change
and if your Bible doesnt natch the old and new testament
change your religion to one who teaches the Bible.
2
2Thewaters
Guest
Those who discourage the old testament know it is because their religion doesnt hold to the word of God/
read it
follow it
and God expects you to change to be like him
the sacrificial system wa good and was the substitute until JEsus died and rose for us
now we have a PRIEST who fills in all the sacrifices
and there now REMAINS for us a sabbath rest for the people of God
look up bible verse
they have been hidden
search as for treasure
the enemy covered them with dry dusty religions
look
you will find
dig for word meanings
and the truths will pop up
I find new truths every day that have been hidden
the best and biggest Jewel is that to worship God you must KNEEL DOWN and worship him that is the definition of worship
uncover the dust
I dont go to a church that disrespects him by stadning in prayer.
read it
follow it
and God expects you to change to be like him
the sacrificial system wa good and was the substitute until JEsus died and rose for us
now we have a PRIEST who fills in all the sacrifices
and there now REMAINS for us a sabbath rest for the people of God
look up bible verse
they have been hidden
search as for treasure
the enemy covered them with dry dusty religions
look
you will find
dig for word meanings
and the truths will pop up
I find new truths every day that have been hidden
the best and biggest Jewel is that to worship God you must KNEEL DOWN and worship him that is the definition of worship
uncover the dust
I dont go to a church that disrespects him by stadning in prayer.
C
chubbena
Guest
In the earthly copy of the ark there's Aaron's staff that had budded, a jar of manna and the stone tablets. What's inside the heavenly original? Are the physical stone tablets in it? Like man is made in the image of God, is the earthly one a physical copy or a spiritual copy? What is the significance John saw and recorded in Revelation?
C
chubbena
Guest
The 'love one another' commandment is in "OT" just as 'love the Lord with all your heart' is. What's new is 'as I have loved you'.
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chubbena
Guest
It's that simple. The Word of God made His 'love your neighbor' commandments given through Moses even clearer i.e. to love to the point where one would lay down his life for his friends - just as He did to 'do not murder', 'do not commit adultery' etc.
L
Linda70
Guest
The reason why this article doesn't address "proper motive for following the Law and a benefit to it" is because the born again Christian is NOT under the bondage of the Law. The Law was fulfilled in Christ....and He has redeemed us from the CURSE (not benefit) of the Law (Galatians 3:13; 4:4-5).
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Here are more excerpts from that same article:
What Does the Old Testament Law Require? Galatians 3:10 speaks of a two-fold requirement:
(1) continual obedience
(2) obedience in all things. (Deuteronomy 11:22; 27:26; James 2:10). This is why no man can have righteousness through the law; as sinners we cannot fulfill its high demands.
What the Old Testament Law Cannot Do:
(1) It cannot justify (Acts 13:38-39; Galatians 2:16).
(2) It cannot redeem (Romans 3:24-31; Galatians 3:13-14).
(3) It cannot give an inheritance (Romans 4:13-14).
(4) It cannot control sin in man (Romans 7:7-23; 8:2).
(5) It cannot free from sin and death (Romans 8:2).
(6) It cannot free a sinner from condemnation (Romans 8:1-4).
(7) It cannot bring righteousness (Romans 8:4).
(8) It cannot impart the Holy Spirit (Galatians 3:2).
(9) It cannot free from the curse (Galatians 3:10,14).
(10) It cannot impart grace (Galatians 5:4).
(11) It cannot enable a man to obey (Hebrews 7:18).
(12) It cannot make perfect (Hebrews 7:19).
The Old Testament Law Was a Temporary Covenant:
(1) It was given to prepare Israel for the coming of Christ (Galatians 3:19-25).
(2) It is abolished with Christ's coming (2 Corinthians 3:6-17).
(3) It was taken away when Christ died (Colossians 2:14-17).
What Was the Law's Purpose?
(1) It was given to reveal sin and to show man that he is a guilty sinner before God (Romans 3:19-20; 7:12-13; 1 Timothy 1:9-10).
(2) It was given to bring men to Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:24-25).
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Show me the "benefits" of keeping the Old Testament Law.
As believers living under grace we need to have our minds baptized and immersed in the EPISTLES, becoming more and more familiar with the great GRACE-ORIENTED COMMANDS that are found therein. Yes we are certainly to obey God’s commands, but the commands which God has given to us are based upon the believer’s glorious position in a crucified and risen Christ. These commands do not flow out of Mount Sinai, they flow out of Mount Calvary.
I'm not talking about being in bondage to the Law. I'm talking about doing it out of response to gracious salvation. And the benefits of keeping the OT Law is living a life in the way God wants you to live. Each of the Laws given have a physical and spiritual benefit to them. Pick one of the 613 and see if you can find a physical and spiritual benefit to your life if you did it today. If you can't find any or have trouble with one, feel free to ask me if you'd like.
The laws that were given at Sinai are the same laws given by Jesus because God and Jesus are one.
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chubbena
Guest
Good post but allow me to express a different opinion in prayer. In our prayers we speak with our Father like a child to his father, right?
A child would look up joyfully, probably jumping up and down too, while speaking to his father, when the relation is good, to tell how much he loves him, how much he feels loved and how happy he is in his love. Very much like David dancing before the ark.
There are times though, when he's made a mistake and has to ask for forgiveness. That's when he bows down. Again very much like David after he realized he committed the sin of adultery.
Of course there are times, more than any time, when we see the awesome wonders He has made, we are on all fours and worship.
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chubbena
Guest
Through the perfect obedience of Christ, we know through Christ we can do all things, including continual obedience in all His words. That takes faith.
We all know that, don't we?
Law was the content of the old covenant but not the covenant itself. The new covenant was promised through Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36. A new contract of putting His law in one's heart. That's what 2 Corinthians 3 is about. Does the new covenant still require animal sacrifices and various rituals for the removal of sin? That's what Galatians 3 is about. Now that His sacrifice has taken away our sin and the hostility towards gentiles, we could fully come to obey His commands and let the body of Christ rather than the world judge. That's what Colossian 2 is about.
It's a long one. You may read Psalm 119 to find out.
That's not biblical teaching.
One may see the epistle writers time and again said "as it's written". As Paul said "I believe in everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets." It's not the other way round.
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Linda70
Guest
Since you (and everybody else) are UNABLE to keep the Old Testament Law (ALL 613 commandments)....continual obedience and perfectly inALL things, you are guilty of breaking them all (Galatians 3:10-13; James 2:10). Therefore, there is NO benefit (spiritual or physical) in trying to keep the Old Testament Law.
I don't need to ask you about the "spiritual and physical benefits" of keeping the Old Testament Law, because if there were any, you would be able to list some of them. Since you didn't do this, I will continue to "walk in the Spirit" (Galatians 5:16)
If you want to keep yourself "under the Old Testament Law", then you better obey all 613 commandments perfectly and continuously...not pick and choose which ones that will "benefit" you. Otherwise, you are guilty of breaking all the commandments.
Have you forgotten why there was a Jerusalem Council in 51 A. D. and the purpose of that Council?
Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Acts 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Acts 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
Acts 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Acts 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Why are you putting a "yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" (verse 10). If you want to put that "yoke" upon yourself, go for it....but don't put that "yoke" upon the necks of other born again Christians.
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chubbena
Guest
A result of skipping Acts 15:21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.
When you use all this scripture, words breathed by the Lord, to say they are wiping out the law because you don't understand their meaning, you are throwing dirt on what is of God.
Rom_7:12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and just and good.
Also, the law was never meant to save, there are lots of things it can not do. God gave it to us for a purpose, why not look for the purpose of this holy, just and good law instead of telling everyone to get rid of it?
Here is what scripture said when the Mosaic Law was given to us. Not a word about it saving us.
Deut 28 "And if you faithfully obey the voice of the Lord your God, being careful to do all his commandments that I command you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. 2 And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of the Lord your God. 3 Blessed shall you be in the city, and
blessed shall you be in the field. 4 Blessed shall be the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground and the fruit of your cattle, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock. 5 Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. 6 Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.
And the idea that when there was a new covenant (legal document) given, it cancelled all other transaction between us and the Lord, it just isn't so. Some are growing old and even becoming obsolete. When we are given the new earth they will become completely obsolete. But God is true and faithful, God doesn't say of His word that it is only for a select few humans, either. God is love, God loves His creation and cares for all who love Him equally.
B
BradC
Guest
Originally Posted by chubbena
Yet the mystery of the revelation had been revealed concerning Christ and the church to the Bereans.
If I may.
The Bereans were a mixture of dispersed Israelites and Greeks in a Gentile nation. They were privy to the scriptures, and at that time they only had what we know as the Old Testament, and even more hearing the scriptures in the Jewish temple built in that area. Paul convinced them of the truth using those scriptures, and they searched those scriptures to prove to themselves the truth Paul taught. They were considered as more noble and well rounded in the truth than those in Thessalonica.
Acts 17:10-12
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily , whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed ; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
To qualify that statement, the Bereans did not know or have knowledge of the mystery of Christ until Paul preached Christ to them from the scriptures they had. When this mystery was revealed to them, this is when they believed and the more they sought those scriptures the more Christ was revealed to them with conviction and more of them continued to be saved. Moses taught of the Christ to come but it was not the law that would save them, for no one has ever been saved by the law and no one has ever been given the gift of eternal life through obedience to the law. Salvation, righteousness and eternal life all come by the law of faith and through faith and never through any obedience to the law of any of the OT commandments.
When we come under the preaching of the gospel with conviction, we are then commanded to believe on the name of Jesus Christ for salvation. We can only reckon upon that message by faith and our obedience is one of faith and not to any law of commandments. If as a Jew I keep the Sabbath without fail, that will never bring me closer to being saved by grace through faith then any publican or sinner that lives in unbelief. If I keep the law perfectly all the days of my life it will never be enough to bring salvation or eternal life to my soul because I need God's righteousness to be saved and that comes through faith. You can search the law of the scriptures and do everything it tell you to do, but without the conviction of the Spirit and the goodness of God that leads to repentance there will be no salvation, no spiritual benefits and no right standing with God. You may have individual moral, physical, ethical and economic benefits concerning the flesh, but no spiritual benefits of the new creation that we have only in Christ.
Why do I need to keep all of the Law perfectly? Why did Paul and James say this?
There's no benefit to resting on the Sabbath?
There's no benefit to not killing your neighbor?
There's no benefit in not charging your brother interest?
There's no benefit in not having relations with your wife when she's having her period?
There's no benefit in leaving some of you produce for the poor?
There's no benefit in not returning your neighbor's property?
etc. etc. etc?
It sure sounds like there are some physical benefits there, yes?
Would you like me to explain how these things are a blessing spiritually as well?
Out of curiousity, how many specific commands are you aware of in the OT LAW? What specific commands in there do you find burdensome and detrimental to physically follow?
In all seriousness, maybe that would be a good thread to start: a list of all of the OT Laws and their physical and/or spiritual applications.
For what purpose do you think I put myself "under the Old Testament Law"?
Why do you think I (and many others here) follow the OT Law?
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Hehe, so you purify your heart by keeping the commandments?
Isn't that putting the cart b4 the horse?
Show me a Scripture supporting your deception.
nico=rule; laitians= laity.
Nicolaitians=those who rule over the laity/usurpers.
I agree with you in everything you wrote. I, however, have a problem with some professing Christians that use the truth you wrote as an excuse to neglect the teachings of the Pentateuch, and say they are irrelevant in Christ. They might go as far as to say that Christ did away with it when He said the opposite, preempting His death. In reality, the New Testament was not in effect until His death, and so everything that Jesus taught before His death is actually the OT.