BORN AGAIN AND AGAIN

KelbyofGod · Jun 5, 2019

BTW, I appreciate your posts and replies. And I don't know how how to describe it (because I do acknowledge and agree that the Holy Ghost within us is incorruptible) but I do know that the process we go through (after initial baptism and receiving of the Holy Ghost) falls under the statement "ye must be born again".

To be honest, I fought the guy who told it to me similar to the way you provide retorts to me. But he wouldn't relent...and I knew he had the Holy Ghost and correct baptism...but he kept saying the same thing. Eventually I said "Either you're not hearing me saying I HAVE been born again...or you're talking about something deeper than what I'm seeing." He said "Let's pray". So we did, and then as he went through it one more time I was able to see what he was talking about (which has to do with a broader meaning of the word "born").

This isn't directly relevant to the topic but the guy was actually impressed that I was so quickly able to understand after praying, saying "Wow, that was fast!" and I was like "Hey, I MEANT IT when I was asking God to open my understanding if this was something He was trying to teach me."

I may say more when I read your quote again because I felt it was a good quote.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

KelbyofGod · Jun 5, 2019

seed_time_harvest said:

Oh, yeah. Now I remember what I wanted to add. I just listened to the Epistle to the Philippians where Paul said the following:

Philippians 3:12-15 KJV
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. [13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, [14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. [15] Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

And yes, I know there are some points of symantics that can be pointed out, but he uses both phrases at the same time. "NOT already perfect" and "Us, as many as BE perfect" in the same way that he refers to his ability to do the following things that might at first seem contradictory:

Philippians 4:12 KJV
I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

In one sense I am not arguing with you, but in another sense I am, because the highlight is on the "AND". It's not that he is to be full OR to be hungry.... he is to be full AND to be hungry. Same with our current topic. We have been born again AND we have need to be born again.

For your consideration.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

seed_time_harvest · Jun 5, 2019

KelbyofGod said:

Thanks. I hope to check out that video when I get home.

You appear to have a good deal of discretion to have noticed that renewing is the word most often associated with the mind (and cleansing of the flesh) in scriptures talking about rebirth. (I actually want to go reread them now.

)

The word more associated with spiritual rebirth is regeneration.

There are two areas of need in rebirth, whether the initial "born again" most people are talking about (which is pretty much an entirely different kind of birth than our first, fleshly birth), or the meaning of "born again" that I'm referring to now (which is a restoration / return to / maintenance of that state).

There's the need of washing away of the old (that defiles)....and the need of adding/creating the new.

Consider the first time this happens...the initial born again that most people are talking about:

When Jesus was talking to Nicodemus, and told him he needed to be born again, he didn't say there was only one piece...He mentioned two... 1. Born of water. 2. Born of the spirit.

Born of water is the cleansing portion.
Born of Spirit is the adding/creating portion.

Born of water happens at water baptism.
Born of the Spirit happens at spiritual baptism.

Born of water is the washing away (remission) of sins from us.
Born of Spirit is the adding/creating of the Holy Ghost in us.

If you look closely, slowly, carefully (and willing to let go of doctrines of men suggesting otherwise) you can see both pieces in the examples given to us in the bible. (Remember, it's safe to look with an open mind and heart because if it isn't in there it wouldn't be available to be found.)

Both John (the baptist) and Jesus taught and practiced water baptism. (John 4: 1&2) We know this.

But the cleansing baptism wasn't the only kind that was needed so Jesus also provides the spiritual baptism, which started on the day of Pentecost and continues (as does water baptism) unto this day. Check it out in the accounts of spiritual baptism....water baptism was still necessary and vice versa. Acts 2: 38&39, Acts 8:12-17, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:2-6.

One is not a substitute for the other. Both pieces are necessary.

So it is with the restoration / return to / maintenance of type of born again that I mentioned. The cleansing of/by the word (reading) is necessary AND the renewing of/by the Holy Ghost (prayer) is also necessary.

Hope that makes sense because it's not as easy to review and thoroughly proofread what is typed on my phone.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

you Got It ALL wrong,I suggest that once you hear the teaching on Spirit,Soul and Body you will understand the difference between Spirit and flesh.☺️

seed_time_harvest · Jun 5, 2019

KelbyofGod said:

After adam fell from grace he became separated from GOD he had put his own desire,mind,flesh first rather the WORD of GOD,and GOD IS a SPIRIT and those who worship have to worship HIM HIS SPIRIT to our spirit and our spirit to HIS SPIRIT and you can’t approach GOD with with your five senses or flesh .
WhenJESUS said you have to be born Again HE WAS talking about a spiritual rebirth not and not ANYTHING physical like water baptism.

For GOD SO loved the world that HE gave HIS only begotten son so that whosoever believes In HIM should not perish but have EVERlASTING LIFE.

After we are reborn of the SPIRIT of GOD then GOD gives a desire and HE equips us and we should renew our minds to match the new creation we have become.

3rdAngel · Jul 2, 2019

Wall said:

For me I believe you are both correct and not correct. God's word teaches we need to be spiritually born again on earth before we can be physically born again at the second coming. So you are right in saying that we are born again at the second coming but you are also wrong to think you will be physically born again without first being spiritually born again before the second coming.

WE NEED TO BE SPIRITUALLY BORN AGAIN TODAY BEFORE WE CAN BE PHYSICALLY BORN AGAIN TOMMORROW.

Some scriptures for consideration...

1 John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.[6] That which is BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH; and that which is BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.

The water represents Jesus (the word of God) received through the spiritual baptism of dying to sin and being raised to walk in newness of life. The "NEW LIFE" of the christian is what is means to be spiritually born again.

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus when HE WAS BAPTISED AND WENT STRAIGHTAWAY FROM THE WATER AND LO THE HEAVENS WERE OPENED UNTO HIM AND HE SAW THE SPIRIT OF GOD DESCENDING AS A DOVE COMING UPON HIM.

Mark 1:8 I BAPTIZE YOU WITH WATER; BUT HE SHALL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; YOU WOULD HAVE ASKED HIM AND HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN YOU LIVING WATER.

John 4:13-14 13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Every one that drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 but WHSOEVER DRINKS OF THE WATER THAT I SHALL GIVE TO THEM SHALL NEVER THIRST; BUT THE WATER THAT I SHALL GIVE TO THEM SHALL BECOME IN HIM A WELL OF WATER SPRINGING UP TO ETERNAL LIFE.

John 7:38 HE THAT BELIEVES ON ME (the word) AS THE SCRIPTURE HAS SAID FROM WITHIN HIMSHALL FLOW RIVERS OF LIVING WATER

Acts 1:5 For JOHN INDEED BAPTIZED WITH WATER; BUT YOU SHALL BE BAPTIZED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT NOT MANY DAYS HENCE.

We need to be spiritually baptized and raised in newness of life (born again) by faith in God's Word to receive God's Spirit before we can be physically born again at the second coming..

1 Peter 1:23, BEING BORN AGAIN NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, BY THE WORD OF GOD WHICH LIVES AND ABIDES FOREVER.

.................

Emphasis in on being born again to "newness of life" through faith in God's word...

1 John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.[6] That which is BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH; and that which is BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.

John 6:63, IT IS THE SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE; THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING: THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU THEY ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE.

Romans 8:13-14 13, FOR IF YOU LIVE AFTER THE FLESH YOU SHALL DIE; BUT IF YOU THEOUGH THE SPIRIT DO MORTIFY THE DEEDS OF THE BODY YOU SHALL LIVE. FOR AS MANY AS ARE LED OF THE SPIRIT THEY ARE THE SONS OF GOD.

Romans 8:1-4 1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT 2, FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE HAS MADE ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH . 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4, THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

Galatian 5:16 This I say, WALK IN THE SPIRIT AND YOU SHALL NOT FULFILL THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH (σάρξ G4561; flesh here means carnal mind; sinful nature)

2 Corinthians 5:7 FOR WE WALK BY FAITH AND NOT BY SIGHT

1 John 3:3-10
3, And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; FOR HIS SEED REMAINS IN HIM; AND HE CANNOT SIN BECAUSE HE IS BORN OF
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: THE SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD.

1 Peter 1:23 BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE BY THE WORD OF GOD, which lives and stays for ever.

It is through faith in God's Word that we are spiritually born again to newness of life today...

1 John 5:4 FOR WHATSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD OVERCOMES THE WORLD; AND THIS IS THE VICTORY THAT OVERCOMES THE WORLD EVEN OUR FAITH.

We are spiritually born again today to walk in God's Spirit (see also Romans 6).

God bless.

dcontroversal · Jul 2, 2019

crossnote said:

Amen....these things are written that you may KNOW.....

Salvation is spoken of in all three tenses and is an immediate possession with present continuing results from a past completed action!

Wall · Aug 9, 2019

seed_time_harvest said:

Yup. Not sure what this has to do with being born again

JOHN 4 [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] GOD IS A SPIRIT: AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

How do true worshipers worship? In spirit and truth

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In Romans 7 we see that the law is spiritual

ROMANS 15 [25] But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.[26] For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.[27] It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. FOR IF THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

The gentiles have been made partakers of Gods law.

PSALM 119 [150] They draw nigh that follow after mischief: they are far from thy law. [151] Thou art near, O LORD; and all THY COMMANDMENTS ARE TRUTH.

worship in spirit and truth

ACTS 24 [13] Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. [14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, SO WORSHIP I the God of my fathers, BELIEVING ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAW and in the prophets:

Paul speaking

JOHN 14 [15] IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. [16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;

How are we to recieve this Spirit of truth spoken of in John 4? By the keeping of Gods 10 commandments. Ill bet most here claim to have the Holy Spirit. Ill also bet they will claim they dont keep Gods 4th commandment.

Jackson123 · Aug 9, 2019

3rdAngel said:

For me I believe you are both correct and not correct. God's word teaches we need to be spiritually born again on earth before we can be physically born again at the second coming. So you are right in saying that we are born again at the second coming but you are also wrong to think you will be physically born again without first being spiritually born again before the second coming.

WE NEED TO BE SPIRITUALLY BORN AGAIN TODAY BEFORE WE CAN BE PHYSICALLY BORN AGAIN TOMMORROW.

Some scriptures for consideration...

1 John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.[6] That which is BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH; and that which is BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.

The water represents Jesus (the word of God) received through the spiritual baptism of dying to sin and being raised to walk in newness of life. The "NEW LIFE" of the christian is what is means to be spiritually born again.

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus when HE WAS BAPTISED AND WENT STRAIGHTAWAY FROM THE WATER AND LO THE HEAVENS WERE OPENED UNTO HIM AND HE SAW THE SPIRIT OF GOD DESCENDING AS A DOVE COMING UPON HIM.

Mark 1:8 I BAPTIZE YOU WITH WATER; BUT HE SHALL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; YOU WOULD HAVE ASKED HIM AND HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN YOU LIVING WATER.

John 4:13-14 13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Every one that drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 but WHSOEVER DRINKS OF THE WATER THAT I SHALL GIVE TO THEM SHALL NEVER THIRST; BUT THE WATER THAT I SHALL GIVE TO THEM SHALL BECOME IN HIM A WELL OF WATER SPRINGING UP TO ETERNAL LIFE.

John 7:38 HE THAT BELIEVES ON ME (the word) AS THE SCRIPTURE HAS SAID FROM WITHIN HIMSHALL FLOW RIVERS OF LIVING WATER

Acts 1:5 For JOHN INDEED BAPTIZED WITH WATER; BUT YOU SHALL BE BAPTIZED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT NOT MANY DAYS HENCE.

We need to be spiritually baptized and raised in newness of life (born again) by faith in God's Word to receive God's Spirit before we can be physically born again at the second coming..

1 Peter 1:23, BEING BORN AGAIN NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, BY THE WORD OF GOD WHICH LIVES AND ABIDES FOREVER.

.................

Emphasis in on being born again to "newness of life" through faith in God's word...

1 John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.[6] That which is BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH; and that which is BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.

John 6:63, IT IS THE SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE; THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING: THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU THEY ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE.

Romans 8:13-14 13, FOR IF YOU LIVE AFTER THE FLESH YOU SHALL DIE; BUT IF YOU THEOUGH THE SPIRIT DO MORTIFY THE DEEDS OF THE BODY YOU SHALL LIVE. FOR AS MANY AS ARE LED OF THE SPIRIT THEY ARE THE SONS OF GOD.

Romans 8:1-4 1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT 2, FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE HAS MADE ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH . 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4, THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

Galatian 5:16 This I say, WALK IN THE SPIRIT AND YOU SHALL NOT FULFILL THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH (σάρξ G4561; flesh here means carnal mind; sinful nature)

2 Corinthians 5:7 FOR WE WALK BY FAITH AND NOT BY SIGHT

1 John 3:3-10
3, And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; FOR HIS SEED REMAINS IN HIM; AND HE CANNOT SIN BECAUSE HE IS BORN OF
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: THE SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD.

1 Peter 1:23 BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE BY THE WORD OF GOD, which lives and stays for ever.

It is through faith in God's Word that we are spiritually born again to newness of life today...

1 John 5:4 FOR WHATSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD OVERCOMES THE WORLD; AND THIS IS THE VICTORY THAT OVERCOMES THE WORLD EVEN OUR FAITH.

We are spiritually born again today to walk in God's Spirit (see also Romans 6).

God bless.

Yep, I believe when we accept Jesus mean born again. It not make us perfect over night, but It is a proces, take a time.

To produce the fruit Will take a time. Start with flawer, unripe fruit than rise fruit.

But we can tell the different between born again and death

There is No movement in death person, but there is a movement in a baby.

seed_time_harvest · Aug 10, 2019

Wall said:

I was just saying that the only way to worship GOD IS In Spirit and In Truth and the only way to do that Is to be born again.

There are the ten commandments which was against us because of the weakness of our flesh and no man could keep and then there are the two commandments that JESUS was talking about when HE said If you love me you will keep my commandments and If GOD has made the Spirit of the believer just and perfect HE will also equip them and remember that JESUS Is the VINE and we are the branches receiving sustenance from the VINE and displaying spiritual fruit establishing the law.

And remember love Is a fruit of the Spirit.

Galations 5:22-23
King James Version

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

mailmandan · Aug 10, 2019

Wall said:

What do you believe it means to "keep" the commandments? Do we receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the 10 commandments or by believing the gospel? (John 7:38-39; Acts 11:17; Galatians 3:2; Ephesians 1:13) Are you trusting in keeping the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on keeping the 4th commandment) in order to obtain salvation?

Do you believe that Christians who do not keep the Sabbath with all it's rules and regulations which was part of a covenant with Israel under the old covenant (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) and is not binding on Christians under the new covenant (Colossians 2:16-17) have not received the Holy Spirit and will not be saved?

*What do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16)

Search

BORN AGAIN AND AGAIN

KelbyofGod

Senior Member

KelbyofGod

Senior Member

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member

3rdAngel

Member

dcontroversal

Banned

Wall

Senior Member

Jackson123

Senior Member

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member

mailmandan

Senior Member