Born or inherited

[Zmouth]

I have other matters that I have to attend to presently but I will be back later this afternoon if you care to continue the discussion.

 

[mystic7]

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26

My brother when you read the context of the scripture James was rebuking believers of been partial and not excersing their faith

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Come and see---->>>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/114356-man-born-sin-nature.html

 

[kaylagrl]

So then Jesus was a sinner?

Jesus was God AND man. We are not as He was. We are fully human. Adam brought sin into the world, Jesus,the second Adam took sin away.

 

[kaylagrl]

Glad to hear you say that, that means that children born out of wedlock are not conceived in sin.

Jesus wasn't born out of wedlock, He was born of Mary by the Holy Spirit. Not the same as someone born out of wedlock. That is sin,of the parents,not the child.

 

[BeyondET]

So can you quantify what the spirit? If it not imaginary then surely you have some basis for your belief, I know I do anyways.

But your argument regarding believe that by acting on faith one's works are righteous need to consider the acts of ISIS, righteous is what righteous does and terrorizing and murderering innocent people is not righteous no matter how you try to paint it by faith.

first off I'm not arguing about anything I'm discussing and that isn't a argument that's your feelings in your own heart not mine. Second saying something about ISIS isn't Christinity they don't believe in Jesus the Son of God. So anything they do isn't righteous or of Christian faith. So to say I'm talking about ISIS is false that's the painting you are trying to paint.

 

[kaylagrl]

A babe doesn't need to ask Christ into their heart. A child doesn't need to understand unmerited favor. We don't have to understand either of those either. Neither of those things save us either. It is God who wills and who saves, nothing of what any of us do. Is he unable to save according to age, intelligence, or location? He saved me even before I knew I needed to be saved. He saved hubby when he went out of his way to prove how much he hated God. He saved a friend of ours when he was planning on killing the woman his father was going to marry. We have absolutely no need to understand squat before God saves us, because he does the saving. We just spend the rest of our lives in awe over what God di. Age doesn't matter to God. He saves out of his good will, not ours.

And Catholics haven't made money over dead kids since before I was alive.

Yes, but you have to accept Christ, the Bible says this. He doesn't save us against our will or without our knowing. And you have to be at an age to understand this.

The Catholic church may not teach that now but they did at one time.

 

[mystic7]

So why didn't he just come on down then? He apparently did it before without having impregnate a married female. So why not worship Allah, the same angel that delivered the Koran was the same one that told the woman that the child was is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. Since the Holy Ghost is the (Spirit and Word) then you should know who the Father was, and if you see who descended upon him beyond Jordan you hear something if that is how your faith came.

I should ask you if you are serious or just playing a game.

" the same angel that delivered the Koran was the same one that told the woman that the child was is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." you're kidding, right?

 

[kaylagrl]

So can you quantify what the spirit? If it not imaginary then surely you have some basis for your belief, I know I do anyways.

But your argument regarding believe that by acting on faith one's works are righteous need to consider the acts of ISIS, righteous is what righteous does and terrorizing and murderering innocent people is not righteous no matter how you try to paint it by faith.

Quote " righteous is what righteous does "

No,righteousness is what Gods Word says it is. And without Jesus none of us can be perfectly righteous.

 

[Depleted]

And Mary? My apologizes I need to study more. I need to find the Bible reference to this "dead spirit" you are stating, it's new to me.

Try Romans 6, but it really only makes complete sense if you read Romans all the way through. Paul builds doctrine from the ground up, do it's not just one brick.

 

[Depleted]

Yes, but you have to accept Christ, the Bible says this. He doesn't save us against our will or without our knowing. And you have to be at an age to understand this.

The Catholic church may not teach that now but they did at one time.

Part of what happens at salvation is we accept. It's literally an offer no one can refuse.

As for what the Catholics taught? Assuming your denomination came out of the protest that killed the Dark Ages, then we can blame your (and my) denomination for trying to get rid of James from the Bible too. I'm really not going to get into all the stuff people got wrong over the years and then go with they still think that. At one point in time most Christians didn't believe there was a trinity either.

 

[resurrection33]

Is one a born sinner or is sin inherited. Interested in your views.

I don't think we are either. We have all sinned, and everyone will, but it's because we have chosen to sin, not because we have to.

But then, we are just learning. The Lord knows we are going to sin. The important thing, I believe, is that we learn from our mistakes.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Romans 7:14-25
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[crossnote]

among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
(Eph 2:3)

 

[Depleted]

Yes, but you have to accept Christ, the Bible says this. He doesn't save us against our will or without our knowing. And you have to be at an age to understand this.

The Catholic church may not teach that now but they did at one time.

Sorry, I didn't cover this last time. Got interrupted. But God really does save us against our will. John 3:19-21

Free will doesn't save.

 

[crossnote]

Sorry, I didn't cover this last time. Got interrupted. But God really does save us against our will. John 3:19-21

Free will doesn't save.

​.................

 

[Zmouth]

" the same angel that delivered the Koran was the same one that told the woman that the child was is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." you're kidding, right?

Let me guess, your teacher didn't tell you about the Angel of the LORD. But then again that would be a stupid question to ask wouldn't it?

So can you tell which one came from the Quran, and which ones didn't?

For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no rasor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb:

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat ny unclean thing: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death.

The Quran has it's written accounts too, just as the OT has it accounts, even as the NT contains the writings such as Luke 16:29-31:

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Of course this one should be obvious:
And it came to pass the day after, that he went into a city called Nain; and many of his disciples went with him, and much people.
Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her.
And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her, and said unto her, Weep not.
And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise.
And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother.
And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

 

[TonyJay]

Let me guess, your teacher didn't tell you about the Angel of the LORD. But then again that would be a stupid question to ask wouldn't it?

So can you tell which one came from the Quran, and which ones didn't?

For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no rasor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb:

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat ny unclean thing: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death.

The Quran has it's written accounts too, just as the OT has it accounts, even as the NT contains the writings such as Luke 16:29-31:

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Of course this one should be obvious:
And it came to pass the day after, that he went into a city called Nain; and many of his disciples went with him, and much people.
Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her.
And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her, and said unto her, Weep not.
And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise.
And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother.
And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

The only reason the Quran contains anything that could point to Jesus Christ is to pervert His true identity.
Yes, they may hold Him to be a prophet, but Islam then dismisses Him because Mohammed is, apparently, a greater prophet.
Thus Christ Jesus is damned by faint praise in the Quran and in the beliefs of Islam.

However, Christ Jesus, is the Son of God; part of the eternal Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; Mediator between God and man, fully God yet fully man, conceived of the Holy Spirit, sinless and perfect in every way, crucified on the cross, and died, for our sins, was buried, yet saw no corruption, rose on the third day; ascended into Heaven, now at the right hand of the Father, interceding on our behalf.

And that is only scratching the surface of who Christ Jesus is and what He has done on our behalf!
You know, someone should write a book on this....

 

[Katy-follower]

Born sinners, inherited from Adam and Eve.

But kids are held blameless until the age of accountability.

Agree with this. All are born sinners (including babies) but God would not send a baby to hell.

I *personally* believe that the bar/bat mitzvah represents the age of accountability in God's eyes, which if this is true would be 13yrs for a boy and 12 yrs for a girl, the ages when they are recognized as being adults.

 

[Zmouth]

Quote " righteous is what righteous does "

No,righteousness is what Gods Word says it is. And without Jesus none of us can be perfectly righteous.

Can you expound upon what your consider the word of God. I suspect that by your phrase "Gods Word says" that you consider your opinion, or interpretation if you will, of the scriptures to be the God's word. Unfortunately, the error with that assumption is that your opinion is God's word then you would have to consider the other person's opinion as God's word as well.

Proverbs 11:23 presents the statement, "The desire of the righteous is only good" so if your opinion righteous is not what righteous does but is only what your opinion of Bible believes is righteous then have you not read 1 John 3:7-8 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning."

Jesus wasn't born out of wedlock, He was born of Mary by the Holy Spirit. Not the same as someone born out of wedlock.

I am glad to hear you say that Jesus wasn't born out of wedlock since the scriptures clearly establish that Joseph was the husband of Mary before life was conceived within the child.

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35

Consider your statement that Jesus was born by the Holy Spirit, I take it you consider petro and aqua be the same substance since they are both liquids. If you don't then why would you consider Jesus to have been conceived of the Holy Spirit since if you would rightly divide the word you would find that the Holy Spirit does not signify the same entity represented by the term Holy Ghost.