Thank you ladies for making these important points.
I'm always a bit surprised, but very saddened, to hear about people -- usually grown adults -- who have never been taught that having boundaries is not only ok, but necessary, and wind up being abused because of it.
Now more than ever, I think it's important to teach people in the church the necessity of boundaries and realistic expectations -- especially with social media trying to tell us every aspect of what we need to be, do, have, and look like to be a "real Christian."
I'll probably sound like a heathen for saying this, but I can't follow most Christians on social media because they either make their lives sound like holier than thou standards that everyone must meet, or try to preach some kind of prosperity theology I don't believe ("Have enough faith and everything will go perfectly, and if it doesn't, it's always because you don't have enough faith or you did something wrong.") Sometimes things just go wrong, and we're not always to blame for it.
I can't follow people claiming to be perfect -- I'm looking for real people, warts and all -- and in return, maybe they can accept my warts, too.
For almost 2 years, it's been on my heart to post a series of threads in the Singles Forums about having more realistic expectations of each other. One topic that I always think about is why I think the definition of a man "provider man" needs to be changed to be more in line with today's economy (i.e., he's most likely going to need his wife to work.)
No, I'm definitely not advocating going against God's Word. But what I'm saying is, I think women need to be taught that expecting a man who's 6'4", makes $200,000 a year (and can get away with working only 40 hours a week to do it,) provide a house in an upscale neighborhood with iPhones and top schools for all of the 4 children she wants to stay home with, all while sitting on the church board -- just might be a tad unrealistic.
Men might have to realize that they might not marry a woman who looks like an Only Fans model (who stays looking that way after birthing 2 kids) and is willing to marry someone 55 when she's 25.
Are there exceptions? Sure. Are they likely? I'm guessing not as much as people would like to think. Men can't expected to be lifelong ATM's and women can't be expected to look like models for the rest of their lives. But this seems to be what many expect, and then we wonder why we're all single.
I can't speak for the men, but as a woman, I've found that church culture does not support women making or having boundaries. If we try to speak up about many things that seem to "disagree" -- especially as a single woman -- we're scolded for not being submissive, accused of having a Jezebel spirit, or of being an evil Western feminist.
Standing up for oneself is not being a Jezebel or straight feminism, and I don't think the church understands that.
Men need to know that it's ok for them to NOT give women everything they ask for or expect, and women need to be assured that it's ok for them to speak their minds without being ignored or accused of rebellion.
This is one reason why, if I got married, I'd need for us to have a church family. I completely understand that some people feel differently -- I'm just speaking for me. But let's say my husband wanted to buy a house I didn't think we could afford. If he was dead set on it, I'd want to know I could prayerfully ask our pastor and elders to help us seek God in making the correct decision. And if they all told me I was wrong, I'd have no choice but to step down.
But I have learned in many instances that just because someone is gifted in one area, it doesn't mean they're gifted in all areas (maybe my husband is an amazing at his work, but terrible with finances -- ask me how I know about this situation!!) Just because a man leads the household doesn't always mean he can manage its finances (again, ask me how I know.) I would hope our church family would know him and I, and our situation enough, that if I'm raising an alarm bell, it's for a good reason.
I personally think that unrealistic expectations -- from both sides of the table -- are why marriages are crumbing, and in many cases, just not happening at all.
Is there a way to teach people, both men and women, to temper our expectations and make them more realistic? I don't know. I've always said the Christian dating pool is worse than the secular world because every single Christian holds tight to the mantra, "God only wants the best for me!" And most assume that's God's best means He's created some fantasy person just for them.
I have always been concerned about the loneliness and mental health of men, most especially when my Grandma died and I saw how it affected my Grandpa. He said that men have no other social channels but their wife, so when she dies, they lose the only connection they have.
I've been wanting to write threads exploring how we might be able to help the "man as the provider" role more down-to-earth and compassionate of men's needs. But I don't like it when gender-related topics are only talked about from the perspective of one gender, so I'd also write threads about topics like women setting boundaries but still respecting their husband, and how to make their husband feel cherished instead of a charity donor.
I haven't done this though, because I've already seen the firestorm of memes and comments in other threads about how women will only marry billionaires and do nothing but take advantage of the vast swarm of (alleged) suitors in line. Do women like that exist? Absolutely. I forbid my guy friends from dating them!
But the problem is that I don't see the women with those attitudes posting here -- none of the women I'm friends with or keep in touch with on this forum think like that -- and it's very discouraging to read posts that assume all women are evil.
Likewise, we have many members with grown adult children in the forums. Maybe it's just me, but the constant disparaging women seem to tell parents, "You failed so miserably at raising your daughters, we have to warn everyone else to stay away from them!"
Not exactly edifying, if I may say so.
Likewise, if I write threads encouraging men to have realistic views of women, I don't want to open the door for anyone to throw all the guys into a bucket and start dumping on all men, either.
And so, I've tried to keep the topics light with a goal of trying to help build community rather than tear it apart, like everything else in society seems to do.
I'm just thankful to
@Lanolin for writing this thread and giving us the opportunity to talk about some very important points.
May God bless you!