Building upon a lie
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Romans 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Romans 5:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9[/SUP] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Romans 5:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9[/SUP] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
if you are not a sinless perefectionist believer, then just say " I am not sinless and perfect ". that would put the issues to rest. until you make that statement, I stand by my saying that you do teach it.You are the one who constantly implies things which I have not said. I always ask for proof from mine accusers, but never get any proof. So we know their witness of me is false.
And my sins were only forgiven after I put my faith in the finished work of Christ
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FreeNChrist
Guest
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Nope. That's just when you received the forgiveness that Jesus had already provided by His one sacrifice. Ephesians 1:7
Actually the Joseph Prince "hyper grace" followers believe that they are perfect (even though they also claim to wilfully sinning all the time...go figure?) I think it must be an "escape from reality" concept, not sure?
But anyway, here is a post I made on it, which I find ironic seeing how people always try to accuse me preaching "sinless perfectionism" all the time, but they actually do. Here is the proof---->>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...self-righteousness-instant-perfectionism.html
Quote from article...
So if you want some fast food religion with greasy lies with that, just believe in the liberal doctrine and easy believism theology of Joseph Prince and the "hyper grace" cult movement. It has no power to actually save, but at least in your "own mind" you will be "perfect" from the word go. Just click your heels together 3 times and say "I am perfect from the minute I believe". LOL!!!
Interesting! You here several times quote the Greek present tense as meaning that we have present continuous forgiveness. Exactly what I believe!
My sins are forgiven presently ongoingly at the very moment I commit them because I am believing in Jesus Christ.
Future sins are not yet "forgiven" - but I know that as I continue to believe in Jesus and hang onto his cross and his resurrection I have 100% assurance of forgiveness and the promise of eternal life! Hallelujah!
Exactly!! Jesus provided the sacrifice and the means for my forgiveness. When as a believer I sin, it is precisely at that moment in time that I receive the forgiveness of Jesus.
I am not sure why you said "nope" - you said exactly the same thing I did!
I guess our words just go by each other . . . . ?
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Close. You already HAVE the forgiveness of Jesus, because you have Him, and your forgiveness is in Him. In Him you have all of the forgiveness you will ever get, and all you will ever need.
Yes ..amen!...hallelujah!
We are sealed with the Holy Spirit from the day we believed.
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
In Christ - in Him - we have redemption - the forgiveness of sins.
We have present continuous forgiveness of sins because of the work that Christ has already done. The matter of sins has been taken care of by the work of Christ with the shedding of His blood.
Our sins are forgiven because of the blood Christ - not because we asked for forgiveness. That's when we experience it the first time "after" we hear that if we believe in His name - we have the forgiveness of all sins.
All sins include all future sins as every sin that we have ever done has been in the future of the shedding of the blood of Christ to take away those sins.
"Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world."
Matthew 26:28 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
Here is Peter preaching the true gospel to the gentiles for the first time.
Acts 13:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Here is Paul preaching the exact same gospel of the grace of Christ - again - the forgiveness of sins is there.
Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
We have to have our spiritual eyes opened up to receive this forgiveness of sins which Jesus blood already paid for.
Acts 26:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
The confession of sins does not cause forgiveness of sins - Jesus' blood bought this forgiveness.
God runs on a blood economy. Believing that Jesus' blood has taken away all sins and without the shedding of blood - there is no forgiveness of sins ( Heb. 9:22 ) - this causes us to receive what already is done.
We have the redemption now - because the sins are forgiven as Eph 1:7 and Col. 1:14 show.
The Holy Spirit witnesses to this fact about the forgiveness of sins that is in Christ's shed blood.
Hebrews 10:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.
Forgiveness of sins is a done deal. I realize this goes against some of our church upbringing and teachings but when you see the wonderful truth of the awesomeness of Christ's work - it doesn't make you want to go out and sin all you want - It has the complete opposite effect. It makes us want to know Him better and to believe in all that He has done for us and to trust Him with our lives!
We truly have a great, secure and perfect salvation in Christ our Lord and Savior! Let's believe in what He has already done and walk free to manifest His love and grace to others in this hurt and dying world.
Originally Posted by Grace777x70
if you are in fact in Christ - you would be in His presence despite your wilful sinning.
This truth applies to all of us.
Hebrews 7:26
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)
But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3.23-25).
'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)
'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).
'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).
'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).
I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).
But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).
Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).
Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).
He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)
[FONT=Georgia, serif]And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]they[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] whose name has not been [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]written in the book of life from the foundation of the world[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] (Rev 17.8).
strange that GOD promised eternal security.[/FONT]
in context it is clear that this means that HE IS N0T A SINNER. We all know that.
Correct, we can no longer look to earthly sacrifices for sin. Our only hope is in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Originally Posted by Grace777x70
if you are in fact in Christ - you would be in His presence despite your wilful sinning.
This truth applies to all of us.
Leviticus 22:3
Say unto them, Whosoever he be of all your seed among your generations, that goeth unto the holy things, which the children of Israel hallow unto the Lord, having his uncleanness upon him, that soul shall be cut off from my presence: I am the Lord.
Luke 13:24-28
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out."
Keep reading.....
[h=1]Hebrews 10:26-31[/h] [SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."