Many are called, but few are chosen=elect
Whosoever commits sin is a servant of sin, and a servant of sin abides not in the house forever= no eternal security for servants of sin.Building upon a lie
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Many are called, but few are chosen=elect
Whosoever commits sin is a servant of sin, and a servant of sin abides not in the house forever= no eternal security for servants of sin.
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
Actually the Joseph Prince "hyper grace" followers believe that they are perfect (even though they also claim to wilfully sinning all the time...go figure?) I think it must be an "escape from reality" concept, not sure?
But anyway, here is a post I made on it, which I find ironic seeing how people always try to accuse me preaching "sinless perfectionism" all the time, but they actually do. Here is the proof---->>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...self-righteousness-instant-perfectionism.html
Quote from article...
So if you want some fast food religion with greasy lies with that, just believe in the liberal doctrine and easy believism theology of Joseph Prince and the "hyper grace" cult movement. It has no power to actually save, but at least in your "own mind" you will be "perfect" from the word go. Just click your heels together 3 times and say "I am perfect from the minute I believe". LOL!!!
"For by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Heb 10:1
Christians have been made perfect forever by what Christ has done, not because we act perfectly.
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
Right. It is a warning to any who reject the grace of God and fall away back to trying to make themselves perfect by their own self effort.
H
heavenly_bound
Guest
well said bro. like you rightly said, it is in Him that we live, move and have our total being!!! The Church is still to catch up with the reality!!
Ahhh...so this is the whole quote of what I was actually saying... I agree with it all...doesn't it make sense to quote "all" of the post to see the "context"?...of course it does.....
if you are not a sinless perefectionist believer, then just say " I am not sinless and perfect ". that would put the issues to rest. until you make that statement, I stand by my saying that you do teach it.
Now wait a minute . . .
If we take this approach, then I can accuse someone of teaching something or of being something unless they specifically state that they are not that!
???????????????????????????????????????????????????
gb9 and many others here have a long history with this.....believe me it has merit which is why it is never answered.
It would ruin his religion because he says if anyone sins - they are not of God but of the devil.
Amen and Amen!
I already am having the forgiveness of Jesus because I am having Him and my forgiveness is in Him. In Him I have all the forgiveness I will ever get and all I will ever need!
H
heavenly_bound
Guest
so according to your theology this "wicked" creator full of vengeance call God, takes time to create a creature(man) in His image whom He will latter save only a few and the rest, He will find great pleasure in torturing them in hell fire; a hell fire He created, simply bc this creature call man ate His fruit!! What a god that is!Many are called, but few are chosen=elect
This type of god can only be the god made in the image of man!!
God created man in His image and man has ever since, return this favor by creating this God in his(man's) own image!!!!!
This is taking this "sinless perfection in the flesh" man-made doctrine for a test run. How does it stack up to the gospel of the grace of Christ? ( which of course the question is never answered )
It is a "hidden reef" amongst us believers that will cause young believers in Christ to have their faith ship-wrecked. Jude 1:12 talks about these kinds of things.
I say let's teach and preach the gospel of the grace and love of Christ so that we can grow up in Christ and be a blessing to help others grow up in Him too.
"For by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Heb 10:1
Christians have been made perfect forever by what Christ has done, not because we act perfectly.
So what if a person is no longer of those who "are being made holy"??
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
A person who is not being made holy by Christ, is a person who has not been made perfect by Christ. And Christians are those who have been made perfect by Christ "forever".
Originally Posted by gb9
if you are not a sinless perefectionist believer, then just say " I am not sinless and perfect ". that would put the issues to rest. until you make that statement, I stand by my saying that you do teach it.
gb9 and many others here have a long history with this.....believe me it has merit which is why it is never answered.
It would ruin his religion because he says if anyone sins - they are not of God but of the devil.
What you say may be so, and I have been around here long enough to know I may not agree with gb9 on many (some?) things either, but I still think we should still avoid making statements that someone believes something just because they do not specifically say they do not believe it!
(not sure I said that right! ?? - now what do I believe or not believe because I didn't say what?? )
"For by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Heb 10:1
Christians have been made perfect forever by what Christ has done, not because we act perfectly.
Being made holy is a process of purification that takes time, perfection is not reached in an instant by "self proclamation". Ceasing from sin and sinful thoughts is also a part of that purification process, which can only be done by the power of God's Spirit working in us.
2 Corinthians 7:1
7 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."
1 Thessalonians 4:1-8
4 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
Oh, I see --
So if I find that for a period of time in my life I am "not being made holy by Christ" - then I can know that I have not ever been made perfect by Christ (or thus - I can know that I was never really born again).
So, I can know that if for a time I am not being made holy by Christ, then I was never really a Christian to begin with.
Ouch! There goes my assurance of salvation! I am going to have to watch my works to make sure I keep being made holy!
Is that what you are trying to tell me?
It's not my theology, it was the words of the Lord....
Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth
Many are called, but few are chosen=elect
Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.
John 8:34-35
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Hebrews 10:26: The verb tense here is present tense -- so the interpretation winds up being similar to what we have in I John 3:6 - the one who is born of God does not continue/practice/keep on sinning.
For if we keep on/continue/practice sinning willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins.
For if we keep on/continue/practice sinning willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins.
Valiant wrote: (#294)
" 'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)
But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3.23-25).
'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)
'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).
'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).
'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).
I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).
But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).
Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).
Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).
He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)
And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world (Rev 17.8).
strange that GOD promised eternal security."
Reply: I don't think that it is strange that God promised eternal security -- look at the verses above carefully - it is there
- those who are coming to Him (John 6:37-39)
- the sheep who hear his voice and follow him (John 10:27-30)
- He is able to keep those who are his sheep (II Tim 1:12)
Amen - I don't think eternal security is strange - for those who are believing in Jesus Christ and are His sheep there is 100% security!
" 'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)
But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3.23-25).
'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)
'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).
'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).
'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).
I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).
But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).
Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).
Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).
He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)
And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world (Rev 17.8).
strange that GOD promised eternal security."
Reply: I don't think that it is strange that God promised eternal security -- look at the verses above carefully - it is there
- those who are coming to Him (John 6:37-39)
- the sheep who hear his voice and follow him (John 10:27-30)
- He is able to keep those who are his sheep (II Tim 1:12)
Amen - I don't think eternal security is strange - for those who are believing in Jesus Christ and are His sheep there is 100% security!
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This is what I believe the grace of our Lord Jesus has to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....
However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
( who are sanctified - this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive ).
Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.
Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.
Acts 26:17 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (perfect passive )
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.
There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....
However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
( who are sanctified - this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive ).
Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.
Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.
Acts 26:17 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (perfect passive )
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.
There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."