Building upon a lie

[Grace777x70]

Christians are already justified and sanctified in Christ. We need to know these things if we are ever going to grow up in Christ.

1 Corinthians 6:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Sanctified and justified here are in the Greek aorist indicative tense. It is a one time event in the past. It is also in the passive voice which means that it is something that was done to you - we didn't do it. God did by Christ and the Spirit of God.

It's time to start believing in what Christ has already done in His great work for us.

Ephesians 1:17-19 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

[SUP]18 [/SUP] The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

[SUP]19 [/SUP] And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

 

[Grace777x70]

We already are sanctified ( set apart ) because we are in Christ now as these scriptures clearly show. Sometimes our religious teachings are ingrained in our minds and when we hear something "different" we balk at them and of course it's heresy to us...as usual...

Christ is our sanctification:

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

Acts 20:32 ; Acts 26:18; Rom. 15:16; 1 Cor. 1:2; 1 Cor. 6:19; Heb. 10:10; Jude 1:1 - all these scriptures say that we as Christians are already sanctified/set-apart.

These scriptures are either in the Greek perfect tense or the past tense and they are passive which means it is something done to us - not us doing it.

Now, I believe as we work out the sanctification and life of Christ that is in us in our new creation that is in Christ now - we are then set apart/sanctified for use by the Lord here in this earth.

This is where godliness has great gain not only in this life but in the world to come. God rewards us for the work that He does through and in us. What a great salvation and awesome Lord we belong to!

 

[PeterJens]

We are perfect in our spirits which is the new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

This is a kind of instant perfectionism.

But where the fruit of this heresy shows itself is in the lack of love and inspiration
to walk in righteousness, but in continual defeat and condemnation.

So a brother will confess enormous anger at fellow believers, rather than realising this
shows them their hearts are in the wrong place, it confirms for them the other parties are
so evil and wrong.

But this is how God works. Our hearts testify to their spiritual maturity by what they bring
forth when provoked.

"The pure in heart will see God."

This is not a promise so much as a reality. How pure is your heart?
When you have worked on this aspect in your life, you will begin to truly see
what God has for you in the future.

Every out of control emotion, every unforgiven action held against another,
every wrong assessment of who you are and what you have done, will effect everything
you do, say and believe. You cannot escape who you are, but you can choose in Christ
to let the Lord change you. Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, this is His heart, and His
desire that we become more like Him every day, not as some crazy dream far off, but a
step along a long walk, arm in arm with our friend and Lord.

 

[Grace777x70]

We have a new heart now in Christ - I realize this goes against our humanistic mindsets and of course this spiritual truth is all heresy... - but scripture is very clear on this subject.

We are a new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. This doesn't mean our behavior always lines up with the truth of the inner man in Christ but the Holy Spirit is transforming us as we behold the glory of Christ. 2 Cor.3:17-18

In order to truly grow up in Christ we really need to see the truth of Christ's work in us and for us that believe.

Thank God that the gospel of the grace of Christ has given us believers a new heart!

I believe that scripture teaches that we have new hearts now in Christ as a new creation in Him. In the Old Testament David cried out prophetically "Create in me a clean heart O God".

Jesus Himself says to "clean up the inside of the cup and the vessel will be clean".

We don't need to search our hearts for wrong things - we need to have our minds renewed to the truth of Christ living in us now.

It's the flesh that "speaks" to us as all the "works" in Gal 5 are from the flesh. We are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 - but we are "in the Spirit" - our inner man in Christ.

We need as Christians to learn to live from this new heart that was "created" in us because of Christ's finished work for us.

I firmly believe we are confusing the "desires of the flesh which still has the law of sin in it" ( Romans 7:23 ) and wrongly calling it our heart. We have been circumcised with the circumcision of the Heart - called the circumcision of Christ and the body of flesh. Col 2:11. This is also called "being sealed by the Holy Spirit" Eph 1:13

The Holy Spirit "cut away" ( as in physical circumcision ) the body of the flesh from the inner man who is in Christ - the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:23

Here are the reasons why I believe we Christians have a new heart now in Christ and not a corrupted heart. We need to learn how to live from this new heart which is where Christ is in us as one spirit by the Holy Spirit.

The believers new heart in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.


By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.

 

[PeterJens]

We have a new heart now in Christ - I realize this goes against our humanistic mindsets and of course this spiritual truth is all heresy... - but scripture is very clear on this subject.
We are a new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. This doesn't mean our behavior always lines up with the truth of the inner man in Christ but the Holy Spirit is transforming us as we behold the glory of Christ. 2 Cor.3:17-18

The above contributor manipulates everything into his own understanding, but refuses
to see others.

Now in the general you can build lots of theological buildings, which could be true, unless
your actual experience of people and life is different.

What matters is how you are inside and how you actually function. If you have not resolved
the basics of forgiveness, repentance, love, openness, Christ and the cross, one has just a
religion. The test of who we are is who we become, how we behave and what we do.

You know a teacher by their care about who you are, and what you do.
Jesus wanted us to be true to everything from the heart and walk simply with others in love.

You know how religious people are is when they justify themselves with convoluted reams
of verses that do not address their core values that they hold to.

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
Eph 1:4

Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Heb 12:14

 

[Chester]

Here is a guy explaining it out....there are many views on this scripture....we should never take obscure scriptures out of context - especially if they "seem" at first glance to contradict the abundance of very clear scriptures that say we are secure in Christ.

Jesus said - " No one can pluck them out of My or the Father's hand".

[video=youtube;FLcy0hlnqMM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLcy0hlnqMM[/video]

Here is an excellent thread on CC that shows both views. Every person can make up their own mind on this subject. I encourage others to take a look and listen to the witness of the Holy spirit within you.

Our loving Father is not looking for ways to keep us from Him. He loves us so much that He sent us His beloved Son to take our place so that we could be with them forever.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138679-hebrews-6-4-6-not-seems.html

I have two objections here: both are to do with your method and approach:

(1) While I agree that we should not interpret individual verses in a way that contradicts with the whole of Scriptural teaching, one must be careful about reversing the reasoning. The first step is what is the overall teaching of Scripture. This must be gotten from a study of individual verses, not from one's own doctrine. You state that "there is an abundance of Scriptures that say we are secure in Christ." That is pretty vague: I actually agree with the statement as you give it. The believer is secure in Christ. But the unbeliever is not secure in Christ (I think Scripture is just as clear on this one). I suppose you intend the preceding statement to be equivalent to "once saved always saved". But I do not think there is even one scripture verse that clearly states OSAS - and thus to say that "an abundance of Scripture" teaches OSAS - I vehemently disagree with this statement. You see it differently - OK - but that means neither you nor I should use the argument that - "interpret this verse by my own idea of what the whole of Scripture teaches". You admit that "at first glance it seems to contradict . . . " but because of your "false" (in my viewpoint) view of the whole of Scripture, you insist that the verse cannot mean a believer could fall away.

I am not here trying to convince you of my view (I have given up on that one - for now at least I just think your methodology is faulty!

(2) You said, "I encourage others to take a look and listen to the witness of the Holy spirit within you." -You don't say it in these words, but the slant is that the Holy Spirit will testify to your viewpoint. My preference is to leave this sort of manipulation out of the discussion. Is the Holy Spirit involved? Definitely!! But let's let Him do his work and not use Him as a tool to pull others to our view! Maybe my accusation is not true and you did not intend this, but it comes across that way . . . ??

 

[Grace777x70]

I have two objections here: both are to do with your method and approach:

(1) While I agree that we should not interpret individual verses in a way that contradicts with the whole of Scriptural teaching, one must be careful about reversing the reasoning. The first step is what is the overall teaching of Scripture. This must be gotten from a study of individual verses, not from one's own doctrine. You state that "there is an abundance of Scriptures that say we are secure in Christ." That is pretty vague: I actually agree with the statement as you give it. The believer is secure in Christ. But the unbeliever is not secure in Christ (I think Scripture is just as clear on this one). I suppose you intend the preceding statement to be equivalent to "once saved always saved". But I do not think there is even one scripture verse that clearly states OSAS - and thus to say that "an abundance of Scripture" teaches OSAS - I vehemently disagree with this statement. You see it differently - OK - but that means neither you nor I should use the argument that - "interpret this verse by my own idea of what the whole of Scripture teaches". You admit that "at first glance it seems to contradict . . . " but because of your "false" (in my viewpoint) view of the whole of Scripture, you insist that the verse cannot mean a believer could fall away.

I am not here trying to convince you of my view (I have given up on that one - for now at least I just think your methodology is faulty!

(2) You said, "I encourage others to take a look and listen to the witness of the Holy spirit within you." -You don't say it in these words, but the slant is that the Holy Spirit will testify to your viewpoint. My preference is to leave this sort of manipulation out of the discussion. Is the Holy Spirit involved? Definitely!! But let's let Him do his work and not use Him as a tool to pull others to our view! Maybe my accusation is not true and you did not intend this, but it comes across that way . . . ??

Personally I think we all know in part and Paul says that those that think they know something - they don't know things as we ought to know it. We need each other in the body of Christ.

I can understand your reluctance about the video because he believes in eternal security and that a Christian cannot lose their salvation and you believe somewhat different.

All of us that have different beliefs on some subjects believe that we are basing things on the word of God and that the Holy Spirit is teaching us so that is the reason all of us say that we believe in what the scriptures teach. That is just the nature of the beast.

I firmly believe that we all need to listen to the Holy Spirit within us for all things at all times. No intent on manipulation - just a belief I have of the certainty that the Holy Spirit will teach us if we remain open to truth.

I like your way of communicating - it is so different from those that slander and call others names because they believe something different. Us grace believers have been called every name in the book - especially from those that espouse we are to walk in righteousness and purity.

I have seen others and myself called demonic, heretics, lovers of sin, reprobates...etc - one even changed my name to "greasy-gracist777x70".

I want to thank you for your Christ-like behavior in your exchanges with us. It shows the outward working of the real life of Christ that is in you.


Personally I believe a Christian can get his faith ship-wrecked and it has consequences in this life but this does not lose his eternal condition in Christ.

I also believe that there are various degrees of the manifestation of salvation in our lives. I will write a separate post explain my view on this subject.

 

[Marano]

You know the tree by the fruit, good works are the result of being born again, salvation is by faith alone and because you are saved, a born again Christian, you are being sanctified every single day of your life, if you claim to have been born again yet live in sin and iniquity and say you had an encounter with God you're a liar.

God's grace isn't a license to sin, it's the very thing that enables a lifestyle that is conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.

Salvation has nothing to do with the works men do after being saved since men would not be able to do those works if not redeemed by God's grace in the first place. It's the giving of God's grace in the form of belief in Jesus Christ that saves us.

 

[Grace777x70]

@ Chester.

I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."

There are different manifestation of salvation in Christ - one is going to be with the Lord - the other is concerning the things of this life on earth.

The promised land is a type of being in Christ now - it is not a type of heaven as there will be no giants to fight in heaven.

Moses did not get to rest in what God had already provided for the Israelites - but yet Moses is with God now.

The promised land is a type of living here on this earth by believing in the promises of God. Only Caleb and Joshua were the ones that got to experience the promises of God in the promised land because they believed in what God had said.

We can inherit now in this life some things that are of the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.

Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved " = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.

If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".

There is eternal salvation and there is manifestation of salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and we end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.

Jesus is either our Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or we are our own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith-righteousness - the other is works-righteousness.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

We don't need to search our hearts for wrong things

For a man who confesses to wilful sin I can see how you may not want to look inside, but ignoring sinful thoughts is very bad advice.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If Christ is truly in a person they will think like Christ thinks having the mind of Christ. They will also walk in righteousness as Christ also walked, not in ongoing wilful sin and wilful rebellion against keeping His commands and doing the Fathers will.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You know the tree by the fruit, good works are the result of being born again, salvation is by faith alone and because you are saved, a born again Christian, you are being sanctified every single day of your life, if you claim to have been born again yet live in sin and iniquity and say you had an encounter with God you're a liar.

God's grace isn't a license to sin, it's the very thing that enables a lifestyle that is conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.

Amen, but there are certain members of a cult here who try to confuse this message by saying they are born again of God's Spirit and are "in Christ" but they also confess to daily and wilful sin. We who are truly of God's Spirit and truly have Christ in us, know this can not be so, and is also contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith - Being in the faith means that we are in fact in Christ and are born again by the Spirit of God.

The righteous shall live by the faith of the Son of God - our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 1:16-17

Here all the good living moral priests were coming to the faith which is relying on Christ's sacrifice for sins. This shows that living by the law of Moses is NOT being in the faith.

Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.

Romans 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,

Romans 16:25-26 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past,

[SUP]26 [/SUP] but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

 

[Grace777x70]

In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Most sinning is willful whether we are honest and acknowledge it or not except for the Pharisees mindset of D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness.

The gospel of the grace of Christ is offensive to these types. It is a stumbling block to them just like Jesus said it would be.

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine is really a "hidden reef" amongst us and will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and upset their faith.

This is the real reason why they don't acknowledge that people willfully sin in their lives as they are learning to live from a life of Another in them. They are quick to condemn others and accuse them of loving sin.

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been quarantined in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.


The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )

 

[AbigailZeke]

Wow, all I can say is, foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you?!

 

[gb9]

Amen, but there are certain members of a cult here who try to confuse this message by saying they are born again of God's Spirit and are "in Christ" but they also confess to daily and wilful sin. We who are truly of God's Spirit and truly have Christ in us, know this can not be so, and is also contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

notice the they and we. notice the heavy implication that " true " Christians do not sin daily or willfully. ( I will half give you props on the willful part , but daily, 100% no. anyone who says this is a liar- to him who knows to do good and does not do it, it is sin. that KILLS the consistently daily thing. a day here and there, o,k,, but consistently no.)

now, this is what he said, what I called him on back in the summer ( and will not stop doing so, this is false teaching ). now, the words sinless perfectionism are not used, but the only way to meet this standard set forth here is to be sinless and perfect. which no one is.

so, he yells at me for sladering him for saying that he teaches sinless perfectionism , which he claims he does not, but then makes posts like this, which sure does imply it. you know, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.............. I rest my case.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70


These are really baby Christians too - even if they can read all the Greek and Hebrew scriptures - or even if they can quote 1/2 the bible or pray in tongues for 5 hours a day. Their slandering, hatred and malice filled words reveal their age in the Lord. 1 Peter 2:1-3




Simple....the post stands on it's own as Peter says. Maturity in Christ can be seen by certain behaviors. Slandering and malice are signs of a baby Christian no matter how their minds may have progressed in their own natural understandings.

1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,


[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

But you interjected the phrase, "even if they can quote 1/2 the bible or pray in tongues for 5 hours a day". I don't think you can elevate your opinions to that of the apostle Peter.
Just more twisting.....

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70


These are really baby Christians too - even if they can read all the Greek and Hebrew scriptures - or even if they can quote 1/2 the bible or pray in tongues for 5 hours a day. Their slandering, hatred and malice filled words reveal their age in the Lord. 1 Peter 2:1-3




Simple....the post stands on it's own as Peter says. Maturity in Christ can be seen by certain behaviors. Slandering and malice are signs of a baby Christian no matter how their minds may have progressed in their own natural understandings.

1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,


[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

But you interjected the phrase, "even if they can quote 1/2 the bible or pray in tongues for 5 hours a day". I don't think you can elevate your opinions to that of the apostle Peter.
Just more twisting.....

I interjected that phrase because supposed being able to quote the scriptures and praying all the time is not synonymous with being a mature Christian.

Their slandering and malice filled behavior exposes their true age in Christ - to see if quoting scripture or praying is a sign of maturity - just look at the Pharisees and scribes of Jesus' day you will see why I say that. ....it's all good....

 

[Chester]

Personally I think we all know in part and Paul says that those that think they know something - they don't know things as we ought to know it. We need each other in the body of Christ.

I can understand your reluctance about the video because he believes in eternal security and that a Christian cannot lose their salvation and you believe somewhat different.

All of us that have different beliefs on some subjects believe that we are basing things on the word of God and that the Holy Spirit is teaching us so that is the reason all of us say that we believe in what the scriptures teach. That is just the nature of the beast.

I firmly believe that we all need to listen to the Holy Spirit within us for all things at all times. No intent on manipulation - just a belief I have of the certainty that the Holy Spirit will teach us if we remain open to truth.

I like your way of communicating - it is so different from those that slander and call others names because they believe something different. Us grace believers have been called every name in the book - especially from those that espouse we are to walk in righteousness and purity.

I have seen others and myself called demonic, heretics, lovers of sin, reprobates...etc - one even changed my name to "greasy-gracist777x70".

I want to thank you for your Christ-like behavior in your exchanges with us. It shows the outward working of the real life of Christ that is in you.


Personally I believe a Christian can get his faith ship-wrecked and this will have consequences in this life and he can also lose his eternal condition in Christ. -- see note below (For the original words see post #407)

I also believe that there are various degrees of the manifestation of salvation in our lives. I will write a separate post explain my view on this subject.

Very true that as humans we only know "in part"

A great post with a great spirit and attitude - You are a great brother in the Lord!

-- and with just a little help in theology it turns out great! (See the "minor" changes I made in your next to last paragraph
- the words now not in dark print! LOL!!

 

[Stephen63]

I am not here trying to convince you of my view (I have given up on that one - for now at least I just think your methodology is faulty!

Only from the floor-up.