Calvinism is Gospel !

[HeIsHere]

A quick apology up front: I know everyone here prefers brevity, so I’ll keep this as tight as possible. Create and control are not the same thing. To create is to bring something into existence with its own nature, limits, and capacities; to control is to manipulate something already made from the outside. God’s sovereignty rests in the first reality, not the second. Because He creates all things—including their purposes, boundaries, and futures—His rule is not the rule of a manager inside the system but of the One whose being is above it. Creation establishes dependence; control merely directs behavior. That’s why God’s sovereignty points to His transcendence: He governs the world not as a creature within it, but as the Creator who gives it its very being.

I can give you an example of transcendence if you like.

This kinda sounds like how Chat GPT talks/responds to me, hmmm

Sure go for it, I wil come back to your responses later today.

 

[Magenta]

This kinda sounds like how Chat GPT talks/responds to me, hmmm

I was using a character counter and it also told me that 71 (or 72?) % of my post
was ai generated. Which was 100% wrong. Just like you are most of the time!

 

[brightfame52]

This is it.

Once a soul is drawn by the Father to completeness?
Then, the Father hands that drawn soul over to the Gospel to make their salvation entered into!

Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, ​

and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and ​

still you do not believe. All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes ​

to me, I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to ​

do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose ​

none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will ​

is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will ​

raise them up at the last day.” John 6:35-40​

The Father must do a preparatory work in a person before they come to the Gospel which God intends for them to believe.

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up ​

at the last day." John 6:44​

Calvinists who can not understand how the mechanics of the human condition and functions. Are assuming that the sin nature resides in the human soul, and not solely in the flesh. Therefore, God must force salvation upon a person lest they never believe.

But it is the power of God's grace will suppress the sin nature in the flesh, so a soul can consider what they think of Christ.
Therefore? When grace is introduced into the equation.

Man while under the influence of grace suppressing his flesh is potentially at that moment not totally depraved.
It is only the soul that willfully rejects God while under the grace to suppress his flesh that fits the classification of 'total depravity.' For he would reject God even if he had no sin nature! Just like Satan and his angels rejected God!

grace and peace......

One cannot believe until God saves them out of the lost condition. Until then, the Gospel is hidden

 

[Vucesa]

So then human can absolve themselves of any responsibility for the actions or their deeds?

No. ABILITY is not the basis for accountability.

The basis for us being responsible is the law. Thats it. We violate a law willingly and are therefore responsible.

God on the other hand is not because there is no law that God can break. The law is for us, not God

 

[John146]

vs 9 is not saying they did not know what caused God's judgment against them because they knew it from Jonah's sign; they were saying that they didn't know if their repenting would suffice to remove God's anger against them, whether He would repent from it.

Agreed, and God did not do what he said he was going to do.

 

[HeIsHere]

No. ABILITY is not the basis for accountability.

The basis for us being responsible is the law. Thats it. We violate a law willingly and are therefore responsible.

God on the other hand is not because there is no law that God can break. The law is for us, not God

"The law" was given to Jews not the Gentiles.

 

[John146]

Salvation is according to purpose not chance 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

And if you've been following along, God's purpose was served. God was going to overthrow them in forty days. If he did so, his purpose would have been served. Nineveh repented so God repented and did not do what he said he was going to do. That's grace. His purpose was served.

 

[John146]

Before he was in the womb? What was he?
He had no flesh!

God was dealing with Jeremiah strictly by means of his soul!
The sin nature resides in our flesh. Not our soul.
It is the fallen flesh that influences our souls.

grace and peace ........

But the passage does not say, before he was in the womb, rather, before he was formed in the womb.

 

[pinebeach]

My lord, how can this be a thing... but they affirm it over and over again.
Makes no sense at all, how can anyone believe this!!!

Tragically ironic.

 

[brightfame52]

And if you've been following along, God's purpose was served. God was going to overthrow them in forty days. If he did so, his purpose would have been served. Nineveh repented so God repented and did not do what he said he was going to do. That's grace. His purpose was served.

Gods purpose in Salvation doesnt require no repentance. Christ fulfilled all conditions, in fact repentance is given to them saved according to Gods purpose. Im afraid you dont understand this matter.

 

[pinebeach]

As long as one is in a lost condition, they cannot believe the Gospel. Once one is saved they will believe the Gospel 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Notice Paul said but UNTO US which are SAVED the preaching is the power of God

I think this is as good a picture of total depravity as could serve any purpose. Oh, I am not calling mr bright here depraved; I am referring to the utter lack of understanding and the brainless idea that a person is basically shanghaied by God into salvation and then, and only then, do they believe the gospel.

It's shocking in it's deception and convoluted understanding of the actual simplicity of the gospel which has zero to do with Calvinism or by similar belief by anyone angrily saying they only believe scripture. A number of people say that here. Well, you do not believe the Bible and you might as well just call yourself a Calvinist.

It's like: how do you say you are a Calvinist without saying you're are a Calvinist?

mr bright...you do not, absolutely do not, preach anything to do with the cross and your statement that Calvinism is the gospel is utter foolishness, un-Christian and fits perfectly into the many isms that have been introduced into the world over the years to destroy the testimony of those who are actually Christians, believers in our Lord Jesus Christ.

You are wrong. Dead wrong, could not be more wrong and the lunacy of thinking God somehow saves a person unawares and they suddenly 'get it' so they understand the gospel, is the exact and opposite of what actually is presented in scripture.

I pray in Jesus Name, that those who are ensnared in the tenticles of Calvinsim would be set free and come into a biblical and freeing understanding of the actual gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen

 

[pinebeach]

A quick apology up front: I know everyone here prefers brevity,

That's not true.

 

[pinebeach]

Gods purpose in Salvation doesnt require no repentance. Christ fulfilled all conditions, in fact repentance is given to them saved according to Gods purpose. Im afraid you dont understand this matter.

That is not true. Why do you misrepresent the facts according to the Bible? Jesus died and rose again in order that we might repent of our sins and trust in the forgiveness of God through Him.

37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38;And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40;And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41;So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. Acts 2

There is NO forgiveness of sin without turning from it, repenting of it, and accepting the fact that Jesus died because humans cannot save themselves. God does not force His Son on anyone, but be advised of this:

9Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place

and gave Him the name above all names,

10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father. Phil 2

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 16 verses 15-17 ~ What about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

 

[Dave123]

Yeah you do. Yeah but its not believe and get saved. One needs to be saved b4 they can believe, a lost man cant believe because he lost and the Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

12 Corinthians 4:2-4"But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them."

They were judicially blinded. Paul qualifies that passage in the previous chapter. While the context is smaller, Israel, it's the same spiritual reality applied to everyone in the NT. They can still believe.

2 Corinthians 3:14:16 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

In short, you don't need to judicially blind those who already cannot see. Yet, even blinded, they can still repent and believe.

See Romans 11:7-8, 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11, Acts 26:18, John 12:40,42, 1 Corinthians 1:18.

In your passage Paul is emphasizing that his and those with him in ministry's message is not done in craftiness, or scheming and scamming, promising health, wealth, and happiness, signs of wonder, etc. Those are the things that Satan used to blind them to the truth. They cannot see the truth through their own idols. As Alistair Begg once said, the truth will look like a lie to those who are grounded in lies." Jesus said that we must become as children. I think that should be considered within this context. A child's receptivity allows them to accept truth without the cynicism and complex deception that adults often build up.

1 Corinthians 1:22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Dave

 

[HeIsHere]

One cannot believe until God saves them out of the lost condition. Until then, the Gospel is hidden

Christ Jesus lived, was crucified, died and rose from the dead. He then appeared to His followers in His resurrected body.

This happened real time.

But I do know there are traditions that operate in the realm of hidden knowledge that is not the Gospel.
I have to wonder if Calvin was schooled also in the mystery religions.

• Luke 12:2-3: "There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known".
• Mark 4:22: "For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open."
• Matthew 10:26: "So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known".

 

[HeIsHere]

They were judicially blinded.

Are you saying that the Gentiles were also judicially blinded like the Jews.

Was this before or after they refused the truth?

 

[brightfame52]

I think this is as good a picture of total depravity as could serve any purpose. Oh, I am not calling mr bright here depraved; I am referring to the utter lack of understanding and the brainless idea that a person is basically shanghaied by God into salvation and then, and only then, do they believe the gospel.

It's shocking in it's deception and convoluted understanding of the actual simplicity of the gospel which has zero to do with Calvinism or by similar belief by anyone angrily saying they only believe scripture. A number of people say that here. Well, you do not believe the Bible and you might as well just call yourself a Calvinist.

It's like: how do you say you are a Calvinist without saying you're are a Calvinist?

mr bright...you do not, absolutely do not, preach anything to do with the cross and your statement that Calvinism is the gospel is utter foolishness, un-Christian and fits perfectly into the many isms that have been introduced into the world over the years to destroy the testimony of those who are actually Christians, believers in our Lord Jesus Christ.

You are wrong. Dead wrong, could not be more wrong and the lunacy of thinking God somehow saves a person unawares and they suddenly 'get it' so they understand the gospel, is the exact and opposite of what actually is presented in scripture.

I pray in Jesus Name, that those who are ensnared in the tenticles of Calvinsim would be set free and come into a biblical and freeing understanding of the actual gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen

The Gospel is permanently hidden to them that are lost, and so they believe not. 2 Cor 4:3-4

 

[brightfame52]

12 Corinthians 4:2-4"But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them."

They were judicially blinded. Paul qualifies that passage in the previous chapter. While the context is smaller, Israel, it's the same spiritual reality applied to everyone in the NT. They can still believe.

2 Corinthians 3:14:16 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

In short, you don't need to judicially blind those who already cannot see. Yet, even blinded, they can still repent and believe.

See Romans 11:7-8, 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11, Acts 26:18, John 12:40,42, 1 Corinthians 1:18.

In your passage Paul is emphasizing that his and those with him in ministry's message is not done in craftiness, or scheming and scamming, promising health, wealth, and happiness, signs of wonder, etc. Those are the things that Satan used to blind them to the truth. They cannot see the truth through their own idols. As Alistair Begg once said, the truth will look like a lie to those who are grounded in lies." Jesus said that we must become as children. I think that should be considered within this context. A child's receptivity allows them to accept truth without the cynicism and complex deception that adults often build up.

1 Corinthians 1:22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Dave

Man is born blind spiritually.

 

[Magenta]

Luke 19 verses 9-10 ~ Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man too is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”