Calvinism is Gospel !

[Churchgoer]

Predestination vs free choice, possible God reveal to different individuals.

I feel we agree more than we disagree.

 

[brightfame52]

Calvinism is not Christianity and certainly it is not the gospel.

Yes it is the Gospel unfortunately you have been deceived into thinking its a mans doctrine.

 

[Genez]

Now it is true that the Gospel is to be preached, or proclaimed to all, but its also just as true that it should be made clear that Christs atoning death wasn't for all, but specifically for His Sheep Jn 10 or His Church Eph 5 and that He accomplished salvation for them, meaning He saved them from their sins.

Why do you want to believe that?

How can you preach the Gospel making that known to the hearers?

.

 

[brightfame52]

Why do you want to believe that?

How can you preach the Gospel making that known to the hearers?

.

What do you mean ?

 

[Churchgoer]

We don't know who will be saved, or predestined. So we preach gospel to whoever willing to listen.
We are not able to convert people. But we can spead seeds, water, nourish soil.... eventually God will make it grow, or not.

 

[pinebeach]

To whom ever you witnessing the truth to. Like Paul said to his hearers Acts 20:26-27

26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

27 ;For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Salvation is according to Gods counsel Eph 1:11

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

You simply cannot create an overiding doctrine by choosing certain verses that seem to coalescence in a direction you favor for one reason or another. What do you do with all the scripture that indicates choice? And by the way, Eph.1:11 is not a confirmation of Calvinism bias.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, Eph 1:11

Calvinists assume that God's predestination is equal to or means the same as His election. Yet, Paul is not talking about effectual predestination as equal meaning to 'election'. One of the major problems with Calvinism is well demonstrated with the mention of this verse.
While God says choose this day whom you will serve, the Calvinists say choose which verses best illustrate Calvinism even if that means faulty exegesis and lack of context. There is exegesis which is the process of drawing meaning out of a text BUT there is also eisegesis which reads meaning INTO the text.

Obviously a very big difference from one to the other. So, while so many Calvinists assume to be in good standing while exegetically expounding on scripture, they are actually performing a fine example of the opposite, by reading INTO scripture a meaning that it does not have.

The letter is written to 'the faithful in Jesus Christ' THEREFORE the SAVED AND IN CHRIST NOW are predestined to holiness, blamelessness and adoption. Paul is not saying FAITH is predestined he is saying those who are faithful in Christ are predestined
to be what God desires IN His Son. Only God through His Son can make us holy and so on, by His Son and it is His choice, His grace and mercy, to do so. The end result is what is predestined.

V. 13-14 in Chapt 1 tell us again how salvation occurs. We HEAR the gospel and BELIEVE that gospel (the word of truth) and then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. That is the order in which scripture presents the true gospel.

13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[GWH]

We don't know who will be saved, or predestined. So we preach gospel to whoever willing to listen.
We are not able to convert people. But we can spead seeds, water, nourish soil.... eventually God will make it grow, or not.

If God were going to MAKE souls believe or not, and if He were loving and just,
He would have made everyone elect and morally perfect from the beginning and saved the world from a whole lot of suffering.

Choice: 1. Either God does NOT force some to be elect and others to suffer in hell for eternity OR
2. God is NOT all-loving and just/fair/righteous.

As for me, I believe the first option.

 

[brightfame52]

You simply cannot create an overiding doctrine by choosing certain verses that seem to coalescence in a direction you favor for one reason or another. What do you do with all the scripture that indicates choice? And by the way, Eph.1:11 is not a confirmation of Calvinism bias.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, Eph 1:11

Im telling you the truth. Preaching the Gospel you preach the whole counsel of God, highlight all what God did to save people through Christ. Picking a particular people is part of it. Eph 1:11 is part of what is stated going back to Eph 1:3-7 ff

 

[Churchgoer]

If God were going to MAKE souls believe or not, and if He were loving and just,

This is your definition of God? Loving, just?
Or scripture ref.?

He would have made everyone elect and morally perfect from the beginning and saved the world from a whole lot of suffering.

Again, from human perspective.

Christiananity is God centered, not human centered.

Choice: 1. Either God does NOT force some to be elect and others to suffer in hell for eternity OR
2. God is NOT all-loving and just/fair/righteous.

As for me, I believe the first option.

personal responsibility is necessary. Blessings.

 

[pinebeach]

Im telling you the truth. Preaching the Gospel you preach the whole counsel of God, highlight all what God did to save people through Christ. Picking a particular people is part of it. Eph 1:11 is part of what is stated going back to Eph 1:3-7 ff

You obviously have not actually read the entire post...you would not have had time.

You are posting YOUR truth and not biblical truth and that is me telling YOU the truth.

 

[HeIsHere]

Im telling you the truth. Preaching the Gospel you preach the whole counsel of God, highlight all what God did to save people through Christ. Picking a particular people is part of it. Eph 1:11 is part of what is stated going back to Eph 1:3-7 ff

And do you tell them Jesus bore their sins on the cross?

 

[brightfame52]

You simply cannot create an overiding doctrine by choosing certain verses that seem to coalescence in a direction you favor for one reason or another. What do you do with all the scripture that indicates choice? And by the way, Eph.1:11 is not a confirmation of Calvinism bias.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, Eph 1:11

Calvinists assume that God's predestination is equal to or means the same as His election. Yet, Paul is not talking about effectual predestination as equal meaning to 'election'. One of the major problems with Calvinism is well demonstrated with the mention of this verse.
While God says choose this day whom you will serve, the Calvinists say choose which verses best illustrate Calvinism even if that means faulty exegesis and lack of context. There is exegesis which is the process of drawing meaning out of a text BUT there is also eisegesis which reads meaning INTO the text.

Obviously a very big difference from one to the other. So, while so many Calvinists assume to be in good standing while exegetically expounding on scripture, they are actually performing a fine example of the opposite, by reading INTO scripture a meaning that it does not have.

The letter is written to 'the faithful in Jesus Christ' THEREFORE the SAVED AND IN CHRIST NOW are predestined to holiness, blamelessness and adoption. Paul is not saying FAITH is predestined he is saying those who are faithful in Christ are predestined
to be what God desires IN His Son. Only God through His Son can make us holy and so on, by His Son and it is His choice, His grace and mercy, to do so. The end result is what is predestined.

V. 13-14 in Chapt 1 tell us again how salvation occurs. We HEAR the gospel and BELIEVE that gospel (the word of truth) and then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. That is the order in which scripture presents the true gospel.

13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.

"Friend, you accuse me of reading into the text, yet you are performing the ultimate eisegesis by forcing man's free will into a text that excludes it.

1. You confuse the sealing of the Spirit in Eph 1:13 (which is assurance given to the believer) with the quickening of the Spirit. A dead soul cannot spiritually hear or believe the gospel unless they are first made alive

1. You claim God only predestined the 'end result' and not the individuals. But the text says He predestinated 'us' (persons), not an empty plan. If God only predestined the destination but man chooses to get on the bus, then God does not work 'all things' according to His own will—He would be waiting on the will of man.
2. Paul says we were chosen that we should be holy (v. 4), not because we were already holy or faithful on our own. Election is the root; faith and holiness are the inevitable fruits flowing from it. Bow to the text!"

---

 

[brightfame52]

You obviously have not actually read the entire post

I did, your post is no different from the typical freewill arminian, I have read those arguments a couple of hundred times before you.

 

[HeIsHere]

If God were going to MAKE souls believe or not, and if He were loving and just,
He would have made everyone elect and morally perfect from the beginning and saved the world from a whole lot of suffering.

Choice: 1. Either God does NOT force some to be elect and others to suffer in hell for eternity OR
2. God is NOT all-loving and just/fair/righteous.

As for me, I believe the first option.

They will find a verse to hide behind instead of being honest about how they change the character of God.
The potter and clay passage comes to mind.

 

[rogerg]

There is no invitation to the non elect for salvation, Christ didn't die for them, The Father never chose them and gave them to Christ, the Spirit will never regenerate them, they were made as vessels of wrath to be fitted for destruction. Rom 9:22

If God is the God unto salvation for everyone, why then did God claim Himself the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - of the living - and not have also included Ishmael and Esau?

[Mat 22:32 KJV] 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

 

[brightfame52]

And do you tell them Jesus bore their sins on the cross?

I dont tell nobody that. I tell them that God has chosen a people in Christ before the foundation and that same People Christ died to redeem them from their sins. How that Jesus came to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21

Now if they belong to the elect, God will give them Faith in Christ. if they one of them Sheep, thats a start

 

[brightfame52]

If God is the God unto salvation for everyone, why then did God claim Himself the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - of the living - and not have also included Ishmael and Esau?

[Mat 22:32 KJV] 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Good point. And why is it stated He Jesus came to help specifically the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16-17

16bFor verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

 

[rogerg]

And why is it stated He Jesus came to help specifically the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16-17

Because Jesus came only for Abraham's spiritual seed - those who are Christ's brethren - but not for everyone

 

[HeIsHere]

I dont tell nobody that. I tell them that God has chosen a people in Christ before the foundation and that same People Christ died to redeem them from their sins. How that Jesus came to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21

Now if they belong to the elect, God will give them Faith in Christ. if they one of them Sheep, thats a start

Sigh.

I guess that is why "stealth Calvinism" was put into action.

 

[brightfame52]

Sigh.

I guess that is why "stealth Calvinism" was put into action.

Is that all you have to say ?