Calvinism - Total Depravity

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GODisLOVE7 said:
Well at least I can say I've posted something... Yeah, I personally do not do well with ego driven gun ranges... Best to sit on the sidelines, sift through the information, and gather whatever gems of knowledge I find and bring them directly to Him! He sorts out the riff raff... ;)
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You'll do fine as long as you choose to not be offended (and some will try hard to offend) and share the simple Truths of the Love of God and His Good News.

For instance, if a theological template says that some are elected for salvation, but others, oh, so sorry, you have no hope - that is NOT Good News, and therefore NOT the Gospel. Whosoever believes/receives Christ is saved. That is clear in the Scriptures.

Total Depravity? Makes all mankind out to be monsters - who wants to love them?! Yet love and the kindness of God is what draws mankind to repentance. And Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of GOOD and Evil, yes? So mankind does know how to do good, yes? Mankind's righteous acts outside of Christ are as filthy rags, yes, but to see mankind as totally depraved (instead of Lost, spiritually dead in Adam as Scripture tells us) is error and often results in arrogance and self-righteous, judgemental behavior instead of humbly loving others into the Kingdom, presenting them with the Good News of the Work of Christ and watching His love draw them!

When folks start pointing to theological systems instead of to the Work of Christ - their focus is off. A good thing to remember when perusing the Bible Discussion Forum! Welcome, and be careful out there!

Grace and peace to you,
-JGIG
 
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eternally-gratefull said:

God was not talking about "him" in Malachi, He was talking to th enation of Isreal (who he called Jacob) and refering to the nation of Edom (who he called Esau)

Also. the term hate means to love less. Much like in the NT when god told us if we d not hate our parents, our spouse and our children we can not be his disciple and walk in the kingdom. But Jesus did nto say HATE, God never told us to hate anyone. In fact it is against his character. God said we muist love him MORE than our parent child or spouse.
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Yeah I get the 7 assertions made by God against Israel in Malachi...God is contrasting his love for Jacob as opposed to Esau and using it as an example of his love for Israel as opposed to Edom.....both of us are right in our application IMO...
 
I see alot of comments that show we as "christians" dont apply the teachings of the Jesus Christ (if he is our Lord), I don't see love. Whether this post is posted a 100 times by different christians you as a christian should have the maturity to decide to either respond in love directing the person to the original post or keeping quiet and let others discuss the topic. So disappointed is our ability to do the very thing that keeps us from entering heaven. LOVE
 
JosiahUntoTheChrist said:
I see alot of comments that show we as "christians" dont apply the teachings of the Jesus Christ (if he is our Lord), I don't see love. Whether this post is posted a 100 times by different christians you as a christian should have the maturity to decide to either respond in love directing the person to the original post or keeping quiet and let others discuss the topic. So disappointed is our ability to do the very thing that keeps us from entering heaven. LOVE
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huh. and here i thought that was RIGHTEOUSNESS. ;)
 
JGIG said:
You'll do fine as long as you choose to not be offended (and some will try hard to offend) and share the simple Truths of the Love of God and His Good News.

For instance, if a theological template says that some are elected for salvation, but others, oh, so sorry, you have no hope - that is NOT Good News, and therefore NOT the Gospel. Whosoever believes/receives Christ is saved. That is clear in the Scriptures.
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The above sounds like good news, but it is not, it is just unreality. There are people here
who are convinced they know Christ yet will argue against His words, attack others as
anti-christs, and condemn people as sinners doomed to hell, yet be incapable of describing
the sin. What they call sin is not believing like they do.

Some are doomed to destruction, and some are elected to eternity. Why this is good news,
is because our enemy though blind and lost forever will behave as a thrashing beast not knowing
what or why they are and what we mean, but always love rules and conquers all.

How did Judas betray our Lord? He saw it all yet rebelled.
The Israelites saw God the Most High is fire at night, and a pillar by day, yet they still rebelled
and died. Korah was swallowed by the ground with his whole family.

All I am called to do is honour God, raise the flag of love and grace and follow. I will walk into
eternity and many will fall along the way, yet love holds true, and walking to the end is everything.

Why? Because this is love and eternity, all else is flowers that bloom and fade in the night.
As I face people dying, burdened by mortality coming to its end, in love and Jesus there is only
meaning, yet so many find it like a shell that goes from them, not to be grasped.

If you see Christ and the cross and how this expresses love, you know God, have seen Him, so now
follow and walk in it. The rest will become clearer, all else is mere shadows of the eternal.
 
The
Ugly said:
Nice post. (=
But if you have any hope of not being attacked then don't post in the Bible Discussion Forum. It is a notoriously vile, mean spirited, ego driven gun range.
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I see you've been here a while so maybe you can tell me why the moderators don't seem to enforce the rules in this section of the forum?
 
StanJ said:
maybe you can tell me why the moderators don't seem to enforce the rules in this section of the forum?
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*shrug* maybe they have free will?

btw it's disrespectful to complain about the moderators in the public forum. :(
 
What I have learnt?

That people hold many different theological positions yet their lives can be totally
flawed. Their theology covers up the cracks, and is extended where it should not go.

I have found I have been oppossed and disagreed with by a very diverse group.
When you dig down, often their insight is marred by unconfessed sin, emotional issues
they refuse to face and pure bigotry of one sort or another.

So until you find you can love your enemy, walk with a pure heart, you will find you
allegiances and opinions are all over the place. Jesus really meant the words, the
pure in heart will see God.

And if you believe all who take a view of faith, religion etc are saved, then you
have not been listening to Christ. Our temporal walk into eternity is a walk
of character and development, to produce someone like Christ. And though this
might appear impossible, follow Jesus and you will arrive.
 
So until you find you can love your enemy, walk with a pure heart, you will find you allegiances and opinions are all over the place. Jesus really meant the words, the pure in heart will see God.
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I would agree .He did mean it. After all he is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases For it is he who performs that in in us at to that which he appointed to us, called a imputed righteous . Or as Philippians 2 informs us . "It God ,according to His work of faith, as a labor of His Love working in us to both will and do His good pleasure. We work out out our salvation that He has given us a free gift .Why would someone want to work for something that he freely given ? It could do despite to the grace of God. We are warned of them who do offer wonderfull works of pride that do despite the His grace.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Mat 7:23

It is He he who makes our hearts soft, washing it and renewing it with the water of His word . If He has begun the good work in us We have his confidence coming from His words of faith ....he will continue to work in us to finish it. He does not begin a work of faith and stop.

Who can say, "I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?" Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike abomination to the LORD.Pro 20:9

It the kind that have great, false pride in what they are do hoping they will be found with a righteousness of their own regardless how much matter just as long as it seem they get to glory in the flesh.

The blood of Chrsit cleanness the heart of all Christian of all sin making it pure enough to hear the Word implanted in us.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.1Jo 1:7
 
Article 1: The Effect of the Fall

Man, in the beginning, being made according to God’s image, was adorned in his mind with true and saving knowledge of his Creator, and of things spiritual; in his will and heart with righteousness; in all his affections with purity; and so was in all his parts and faculties holy (Gen 1:26-27†). But he, by the devil’s instigation, and liberty of his own will, revolting from God, bereaved himself of these excellent gifts (Gen 3:1-7†), and contrariwise, in lieu of them, gat in his mind horrible darkness, vanity, and crookedness of judgment; in his heart and will, malice, rebellion, and obduration; and in all his affections, impurity (Eph 4:17-19†).

Article 2: The Spread of Corruption

And such as man after the fall, such children he begat; namely, a corrupt issue from a corrupt father (Job 14:4†; Ps 51:5†): this corruption being by the just judgment of God derived from Adam to all his posterity (Rom 5:12†) (Christ only excepted [Heb 4:15†]), and that not by imitation (as of old the Pelagians would have it), but by the propagation of nature with her infection.

Article 3: Man’s Total Inability

All men therefore are conceived in sin, and born the children of wrath, untoward to all good tending to salvation, forward to evil, dead in sins, slaves in sin (Eph 2:1, 3†; John 8:34†; Rom 6:16-17†), and neither will nor can (without grace of the Holy Ghost regenerating them [John 3:3-6†; Tit 3:5†]) set straight their own crooked nature, no nor so much as dispose themselves to the amending of it.

Article 4: The Inadequacy of the Light of Nature

Certes, there are still in lapsed man some remains of the light of nature; by virtue whereof he retaineth some principles concerning God (Rom 1:19-20†), and of things natural, and of the difference between good and evil; as also he sheweth some care of virtue, and of outward discipline (Rom 2:14-15†): but so far short is he from being enabled by this inbred light, to come to the saving knowledge of God, and to convert himself unto him, that he does not make right use thereof in natural things, and civil affairs; nay, such as it is, he many ways defileth it all, and withholdeth it in unrighteousness; and by so doing becometh unexcusable before God (Rom 1:18, 20†).

Article 5: The Inadequacy of the Law

As it is with the light of nature, so it is also touching the Decalogue, or Ten Commandments, delivered to the Jews from God in special manner by the hand of Moses. For, inasmuch as the law doth indeed lay open the grievousness of sin, and more and more deeply attaindeth man at the bar of justice, but neither reacheth forth any remedy, nor affordeth strength to wade out of misery, and so, being weakened through the flesh, leaveth a sinner under the curse; it is not possible that by it a man should obtain saving grace (Rom 3:19-20†; 7:10, 13†; 8:3†; 2 Cor 3:6-7†).

Article 6: The Need for the Gospel

That, therefore, which neither the light of nature, nor the law could do, God bringeth to pass by the power of the Holy Ghost, through his word, or the ministry of reconciliation (2 Cor 5:18-19†) (namely, the gospel concerning the Messias), whereby it pleased God to save those that believe (1 Cor 1:21†), as well under the Old, as New Testament.

(Taken from the cannons of Dort)
 
Why label things. We either belong to Jesus Christ or we do not. He choses our inheritance and I for one am delighted and thankful that he included me. Praise God for his salvation and his son Our Savior if he included you also.
 
Josefnospam said:
Why label things. We either belong to Jesus Christ or we do not. He choses our inheritance and I for one am delighted and thankful that he included me. Praise God for his salvation and his son Our Savior if he included you also.
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I think we need labels to help us progress and put into action the right points and
avoid the bad. We can damage our souls, and not grow, not become the things
God wants us to be, or we can learn to walk and grow and become.

At the beginning labels probably matter more, because they give a structure
before we can feel and know the reality at work within us.

I used to flip out quickly and get blown off course, but now it takes a lot, and
I know how to feel the problems and bring them to the Lord to get back to the
place I need to be.
 
PeterJens said:
I think we need labels to help us progress and put into action the right points and
avoid the bad. We can damage our souls, and not grow, not become the things
God wants us to be, or we can learn to walk and grow and become.

At the beginning labels probably matter more, because they give a structure
before we can feel and know the reality at work within us.

I used to flip out quickly and get blown off course, but now it takes a lot, and
I know how to feel the problems and bring them to the Lord to get back to the
place I need to be.
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that last paragraph may be true in your non-internet life, but it does not really manifest itself here.
 
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