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Jim Jones believed in what he said. In fact all cult leaders believe in what they say so that is not a criteria to use.
S
Saint_7
Guest
Amen Glory Be to JESUS. Amen. Amen Bro keep preaching like that your praise worthy word glorifies JESUS in all our life's. Amen.
S
Saint_7
Guest
Amen. Glory be to JESUS. Amen. Sister wwjd_kilden I'm. Sorry for calling you a brother I didn't visit didn't realise that until after lol Keep preaching the truth about JESUS the truth glorifies JESUS in our life's. Amen.
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GreenNnice
Guest
Bottom line: Question is rhetorical. God can do anything He wants.
NOw, if I'd said , 'Will God call a woman to be a pastor?' The 'will' word would allow for the 'no' answer in my poll.
But, as worded, as I explain earlier in a post, the ONLY answer is 'yes.'
God CAN.
But, He won't green, the bible says 'no.'
No, the bible doesn't, actually say 'no,' it simply says that a 'overseer' or 'bishop' is to the 'husband of one wife.' And, just because Paul doesn't mention a single man, can they be an overseer or bishop, or another word, for those two, pastor?
Depends on how you want to rightfully divide Scripture but 1 Tim. 2:12 DOES say 'a man' or, 'the man' is not to have authority or teach over a woman, so, it would contradict what 1 Tim. 3 says , saying that a bishop is a HUSBAND (married man) , faithful to one wife.
'Course, I've pointed out, too, the last part of 1 Tim. 2:12 says 'she is to be quiet,' and, this speaks of her not talking over a man, or, teaching over a man. She's not to speak out, she's to, as verse 11 right before says, she is to LEARN and be SUBMISSIVE
So, figure it all out with how the Lord leads you to understand, but, you betcha!, God can and does and will continue to do things His way, and, I would just encourage you, IF a woman pastor crosses your path, I would give her a just chance to show you the FRUIT that is of her church and show you the reasoning for why she FELT called to go to seminary for three years and become a pastor, or, Sunday school teacher, or, evangelist, who was sharing the Gospel, but, in so doing, was, of course, in essence, teaching them of Christ.
NOw, if I'd said , 'Will God call a woman to be a pastor?' The 'will' word would allow for the 'no' answer in my poll.
But, as worded, as I explain earlier in a post, the ONLY answer is 'yes.'
God CAN. But, He won't green, the bible says 'no.'
No, the bible doesn't, actually say 'no,' it simply says that a 'overseer' or 'bishop' is to the 'husband of one wife.' And, just because Paul doesn't mention a single man, can they be an overseer or bishop, or another word, for those two, pastor?
Depends on how you want to rightfully divide Scripture but 1 Tim. 2:12 DOES say 'a man' or, 'the man' is not to have authority or teach over a woman, so, it would contradict what 1 Tim. 3 says , saying that a bishop is a HUSBAND (married man) , faithful to one wife.
'Course, I've pointed out, too, the last part of 1 Tim. 2:12 says 'she is to be quiet,' and, this speaks of her not talking over a man, or, teaching over a man. She's not to speak out, she's to, as verse 11 right before says, she is to LEARN and be SUBMISSIVE
So, figure it all out with how the Lord leads you to understand, but, you betcha!, God can and does and will continue to do things His way, and, I would just encourage you, IF a woman pastor crosses your path, I would give her a just chance to show you the FRUIT that is of her church and show you the reasoning for why she FELT called to go to seminary for three years and become a pastor, or, Sunday school teacher, or, evangelist, who was sharing the Gospel, but, in so doing, was, of course, in essence, teaching them of Christ.
A
allenblue
Guest
the reason women cant is because eve was eat of the fruit first.the bible speak of it plane women cant be over man an cant preach.no matter how much man trys to change God word,its still the same....Godbless
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phil112
Guest
God does not like for you to lie about His word, and that is a blatant lie.
A preacher must be able to "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine."
To rebuke or reprove a man is to wield authority over him. You need to quit lying about scripture.
N
NightRevan
Guest
Well this delivery pretty much sums up why I am in full support of women's ministry, and says it better then I can, so I'll just post the link:
Women
Gah, the link won't work, well if you interested go to here (I hope
)
and go to Women's Service in the Church: the Biblical Basis:
[url]http://ntwrightpage.com/
Women
Gah, the link won't work, well if you interested go to here (I hope
)and go to Women's Service in the Church: the Biblical Basis:
[url]http://ntwrightpage.com/
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phil112
Guest
Well this delivery pretty much sums up why I am in full support of women's ministry, and says it better then I can, so I'll just post the link:
Women
Gah, the link won't work, well if you interested go to here (I hope
and go to Women's Service in the Church: the Biblical Basis:
[URL="http://ntwrightpage.com/"]http://ntwrightpage.com/
Interesting how people want you to listen to this man, or that woman, or read what she says about it, or he says about it, and completely turn their nose up at clear scripture.
The biblical basis, revan? I have given it to you and you rejected it.I am telling you people, you better think twice about rejecting God's word.
J
jkalyna
Guest
Well, let me say a word, but not to preach. Some say Deborah did a great work, but that was in the Old Testament. We did recieve a New one, and there is no greater work, than what Jesus has done. There was a lot of disorder in the Old, confusion. Since then the apostales wanted to put things in order, whether Jesus instructed them or not, I am a little leary, about what anyone says, except it be straight from the Lord. But, since we are born again of the spirit, it says God looks on the heart, inner , and that man looks on the outward, if there is a word from the Lord, from the HOly Spirit, a teaching, then it should be shared, or it says, "quench not the spirit." A mother teaches her children, about the Lord all the time, whether males or females, but I would not go to a church with a women Pastor, Minister, I think there should be order, and if the ones Jesus picked, and taught, have written these things, then, it is to be followed.
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NightRevan
Guest
Sorry quote from phil122:
Interesting how people want you to listen to this man, or that woman, or read what she says about it, or he says about it, and completely turn their nose up at clear scripture.
The biblical basis, revan? I have given it to you and you rejected it.
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
I am telling you people, you better think twice about rejecting God's word.
The Biblical basis is there the man in question is one the foremost NT scholars and historians of today who is committed to sola Scriptura, understanding what the Scripture actually say and how to correctly understand them, all he says draws from the Scriptures. Sure, you can disagree that is your prerogative. I could summarise my understanding of the Scriptures, but it is expounded much more eloquently and in-depth then I could do, so I thought I would put it there for the understanding and edification of everyone (whether they agreed with his exegesis or not), why are we afraid of working to see what Scriptures say and discuss it? So no I don't reject God's Word, not one bit, but I seek ever to understand it following the imperative of the Reformers started, of sola Scriptura alone, not what a current tradition of interpretation says, like the noble Bereans I will test and see in the Scriptures if these things be true.
And it is in that spirit alone that is given, for people to read and reflect for myself and allow God to guide them to understanding. And none of this is a salvation issue, so we can bear with each other on love and discuss it, reasoning together as brothers and sisters was important in NT times, and it's important now.
With that I shall leave this thread, may God bless you, your family and all you know with love, peace, protection and wise understanding, as may He do to everyone here, and may all here be as the noble Bereans, at least that is my prayer.
God richly bless you all :d
Interesting how people want you to listen to this man, or that woman, or read what she says about it, or he says about it, and completely turn their nose up at clear scripture.
The biblical basis, revan? I have given it to you and you rejected it.
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
I am telling you people, you better think twice about rejecting God's word.
The Biblical basis is there the man in question is one the foremost NT scholars and historians of today who is committed to sola Scriptura, understanding what the Scripture actually say and how to correctly understand them, all he says draws from the Scriptures. Sure, you can disagree that is your prerogative. I could summarise my understanding of the Scriptures, but it is expounded much more eloquently and in-depth then I could do, so I thought I would put it there for the understanding and edification of everyone (whether they agreed with his exegesis or not), why are we afraid of working to see what Scriptures say and discuss it? So no I don't reject God's Word, not one bit, but I seek ever to understand it following the imperative of the Reformers started, of sola Scriptura alone, not what a current tradition of interpretation says, like the noble Bereans I will test and see in the Scriptures if these things be true.
And it is in that spirit alone that is given, for people to read and reflect for myself and allow God to guide them to understanding. And none of this is a salvation issue, so we can bear with each other on love and discuss it, reasoning together as brothers and sisters was important in NT times, and it's important now.
With that I shall leave this thread, may God bless you, your family and all you know with love, peace, protection and wise understanding, as may He do to everyone here, and may all here be as the noble Bereans, at least that is my prayer.
God richly bless you all :d
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oldernotwiser
Guest
well dear, if someone reads scripture to say a woman can't be called to the ministry i would have to ask if evangeline booth might have been an exception. if God calls you i think you had better answer that call. it sounds like his church could certainly use you in a pulpit.
G
GreenNnice
Guest
This is a long post, but, I hope, pray, the Lord leads us in understanding together, His Spirit speaking to us all, teaching......
I agree, JK, withi this, especially: do not quench the Spirit, just like 1 Thessalonians 5 teaches
Who are you speaking to, oldernonethewiser ?
---
Just to reiterate, anyone who says that God cannot 'call' a woman to ministry, and, don't emphasize the 'call' word, emphasize the 'can' word
God can .
-----------
Now, for those who keep insisting that a woman is NEVER called by God, I just ask you to show where that is in Scripture??????
Is that so much to ask
A bishop or overseer is to be the 'husband of one wife.' OK, so a single man is not mentioned. Can THAT MAN in his state of singleness be a pastor, then, or, is he having to be a 'husband of one wife?'
--------Don't you see how taking Scripture at face value relates to understanding the Word ?
Paul speaks of a wife not to speak to her husband during church when the pastor is speaking, this per in 1 Cor. 14:34-35, and, speaks of her to ask questions to her husband at home, she's to be quiet during the church service or gathering place or worship which was often in people's houses, like Apollos and his wife, who taught out of theirs.
Can't you, therefore, see the correlation that a woman is to learn and be quiet when a pastor is speaking in the church.
Can't you see the coherence in these two passages saying the same thing to TWO different people groups: Corinthians, Ephesians.
Church(es) in Ephesus were spoken to by Paul in 1 Tim. 2, the whole chapter speaks about worshipping, and, submitting to those, like kings, who are in authority over you, for that is best way for people to understand the gospel and who Christ is.
Women are NOT to speak while a man, who is a PASTOR, in a worship service, IS SPEAKING to them.
What are they supposed to do, green?
They are to 'learn in full submission,' per 1 Tim. 2:11, and, further, verse 12 goes on to state they are not to teach over THAT man, who is a pastor who is speaking to them, teaching them something.
What are they supposed to do, green?
They are to 'be quiet,' or , some versions say , 'to be in silence.'
Interpret this Scripture set however you want but both 1 Cor. 14:34-35 AND 1 Tim. 2:11-12 say THE SAME thing.
They are a reiteration of the same missive by Paul, exhorting women to not be out of line in church. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with God suffering that a woman ever become a pastor. She can
How, green? How can she, huh, can she, can she, huh-huh?
By being 'called' by God And, for that matter, the same thing goes for a man, he should NOT become a pastor, or, teacher, unless CALLED by God The Lord leads. "...you follow Me."
Now, here are the two Scripture passages that speak of the same thing, with the same coherence and correlation to each other.
1 Cor. 14:34-35 :
Women[SUP]f[/SUP] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[SUP]g[/SUP] 36Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?
1 Tim. 2, I will list it in its entirety so proper context can be shown the highlighted words above spoken of .
1I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.
8Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11A woman[SUP]a[/SUP] should learn in quietness and full submission.12I do not permit ("suffer," some versions) a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[SUP]b[/SUP] she must be quiet.
Now, notice the continued correlation of thought as verse 36 of 1 Cor. 14 relates to 1 Tim. 2:13-14
13For Adam was first formed (, or, 'originated, some versions), then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
OK, so that all said, there is a deep MISunderstanding to think that Paul is not speaking of the SAME THING in two different places in New Testament scrptures . Women are to be quiet when someone is speaking, they are not FIRST in the order, man is, so, all the WIVES and women out there, who are thinking they are FIRST need to realize they are SECOND in the order, which, however, does by NO means exclude them from, sometimes--albeit, more 'exception' than 'rule,'-- being CALLED by God to help people learn the gospel who are not listening to others. I can think of ONE people group in particular that women can REACH men for the gospel who will not listen to other men.
Who is that, green?
Gay community, homosexuals, same sex married folks or just single and bitter or,. hmm, yes, A lot of times, men, speaking of that gender here, for this example, are gay because they were hurt or abused by a woman, as a child, or, adult, in past marriage to his wife, etc. That's no secret, men don't just be gay, something happens to them, right, or, they just have it in their dna, go ahead believe that too, that's not the point to what's being said here.
God knows all our hearts, I mean, God knows everything right, knows our inner feelings of our heart, when we don't, we only can THINK we know someone's inside heart, but, no, they don't.
But, yes, I don't want to get tooo off topic, but, that's ONE REASON why God could call a woman to a church that is predominantly with men who are GAY. God wants NO ONE to perish and He will reach them anyway He so 'calls.'
I agree, JK, withi this, especially: do not quench the Spirit, just like 1 Thessalonians 5 teaches
Who are you speaking to, oldernonethewiser ?
---
Just to reiterate, anyone who says that God cannot 'call' a woman to ministry, and, don't emphasize the 'call' word, emphasize the 'can' word
God can .
-----------
Now, for those who keep insisting that a woman is NEVER called by God, I just ask you to show where that is in Scripture??????
Is that so much to ask
A bishop or overseer is to be the 'husband of one wife.' OK, so a single man is not mentioned. Can THAT MAN in his state of singleness be a pastor, then, or, is he having to be a 'husband of one wife?'
--------Don't you see how taking Scripture at face value relates to understanding the Word ?
Paul speaks of a wife not to speak to her husband during church when the pastor is speaking, this per in 1 Cor. 14:34-35, and, speaks of her to ask questions to her husband at home, she's to be quiet during the church service or gathering place or worship which was often in people's houses, like Apollos and his wife, who taught out of theirs.
Can't you, therefore, see the correlation that a woman is to learn and be quiet when a pastor is speaking in the church.
Can't you see the coherence in these two passages saying the same thing to TWO different people groups: Corinthians, Ephesians.
Church(es) in Ephesus were spoken to by Paul in 1 Tim. 2, the whole chapter speaks about worshipping, and, submitting to those, like kings, who are in authority over you, for that is best way for people to understand the gospel and who Christ is.
Women are NOT to speak while a man, who is a PASTOR, in a worship service, IS SPEAKING to them.
What are they supposed to do, green?
They are to 'learn in full submission,' per 1 Tim. 2:11, and, further, verse 12 goes on to state they are not to teach over THAT man, who is a pastor who is speaking to them, teaching them something.
What are they supposed to do, green?
They are to 'be quiet,' or , some versions say , 'to be in silence.'
Interpret this Scripture set however you want but both 1 Cor. 14:34-35 AND 1 Tim. 2:11-12 say THE SAME thing.
They are a reiteration of the same missive by Paul, exhorting women to not be out of line in church. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with God suffering that a woman ever become a pastor. She can
How, green? How can she, huh, can she, can she, huh-huh?
By being 'called' by God
And, for that matter, the same thing goes for a man, he should NOT become a pastor, or, teacher, unless CALLED by God The Lord leads. "...you follow Me." Now, here are the two Scripture passages that speak of the same thing, with the same coherence and correlation to each other.
1 Cor. 14:34-35 :
Women[SUP]f[/SUP] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[SUP]g[/SUP] 36Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?
1 Tim. 2, I will list it in its entirety so proper context can be shown the highlighted words above spoken of .
1I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.
8Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11A woman[SUP]a[/SUP] should learn in quietness and full submission.12I do not permit ("suffer," some versions) a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[SUP]b[/SUP] she must be quiet.
Now, notice the continued correlation of thought as verse 36 of 1 Cor. 14 relates to 1 Tim. 2:13-14
13For Adam was first formed (, or, 'originated, some versions), then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
OK, so that all said, there is a deep MISunderstanding to think that Paul is not speaking of the SAME THING in two different places in New Testament scrptures . Women are to be quiet when someone is speaking, they are not FIRST in the order, man is, so, all the WIVES and women out there, who are thinking they are FIRST need to realize they are SECOND in the order, which, however, does by NO means exclude them from, sometimes--albeit, more 'exception' than 'rule,'-- being CALLED by God to help people learn the gospel who are not listening to others. I can think of ONE people group in particular that women can REACH men for the gospel who will not listen to other men.
Who is that, green?
Gay community, homosexuals, same sex married folks or just single and bitter or,. hmm, yes, A lot of times, men, speaking of that gender here, for this example, are gay because they were hurt or abused by a woman, as a child, or, adult, in past marriage to his wife, etc. That's no secret, men don't just be gay, something happens to them, right, or, they just have it in their dna, go ahead believe that too, that's not the point to what's being said here.
God knows all our hearts, I mean, God knows everything right, knows our inner feelings of our heart, when we don't, we only can THINK we know someone's inside heart, but, no, they don't.
But, yes, I don't want to get tooo off topic, but, that's ONE REASON why God could call a woman to a church that is predominantly with men who are GAY. God wants NO ONE to perish and He will reach them anyway He so 'calls.'
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God made man and God made the woman. Each has a different nature. God knows what each is best suited for according to His purposes. It is always best when we unite our purpose with what God has purposed. There will always be a few rebels in every crowd. Many will not be receiving reward in the last day.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
[1Cr 14:34-38 KJV] 34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
[1Ti 2:9-14 KJV] 9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
[2Ti 4:3 KJV] 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
[1Ti 2:9-14 KJV] 9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
[2Ti 4:3 KJV] 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
That said, I also want to say that women tend to be more open to spiritual things; this is both a blessing and a curse.
I
IloveyouGod
Guest
I'm Christian Coptic Orthodox. So my church goes exactly by the bible. We have LOTS of women who serves in the church n' I'm one of them. We teach Sunday school, serve the youth n' A LOT more. However, during the Divine Liturgy, the Priest is praying, women do not go up n' give the sermon or read the bible according to Saint Paul's saying.
Now if anyone wants to comment, kindly please direct your comment/question to me personally. Do not think of criticizing my church.
Now if anyone wants to comment, kindly please direct your comment/question to me personally. Do not think of criticizing my church.
I
IloveyouGod
Guest
I guess now that I see people liking my post about women's service in my church, I could say that I was able to clarify that that's what Green is saying to you here, that women are allowed to serve/preach in church. Like I said, we don't read the bible or give sermons while the Divine Liturgy is running. BUT we do read the bible n' give sermons n' preach in other different occasions/services outside the 2 hour of the Divine Liturgy. God bless you all. N' again, feel free to ask me any question if you'd like.
N' again, feel free to ask me any question if you'd like.
P
phil112
Guest
You can't have it both ways. Either you go exactly by the bible or you don't. May I point out it is hypocrisy to claim you do when you don't. Paul was unequivocal in his teaching. He said, and I quote: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man". He did not say, "well, maybe sometimes it's okay".I guess now that I see people liking my post about women's service in my church, I could say that I was able to clarify that that's what Green is saying to you here, that women are allowed to serve/preach in church. Like I said, we don't read the bible or give sermons while the Divine Liturgy is running. BUT we do read the bible n' give sermons n' preach in other different occasions/services outside the 2 hour of the Divine Liturgy. God bless you all.