Can a woman be 'called' by God into ministry to teach and preach men?

[phil112]

Bible was translated by King james bigotes

where it says WOMAN the origanal word is WIFE

Paul was telling the women not to take over their husbands in Public and not to wear gold ornaments or fancy braiding of hair.

The churches who think women cannot be pastors, do they allow people with necklaces and earrings?

I just am almost speechless! Are you telling me that Paul is teaching man's customs to Christians??? Really?? That is what you said. You are telling me, that Paul is telling the wives of his time that, and it is completely irrelevant to us??? You are telling me that PAUL is saying that, and it didn't come from Christ???
Paul would NEVER do such a thing.

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Are you telling me that Paul was teaching for doctrine the commandments of men and God allowed him to do that? Do you really think God let Paul insert his own rules into a book that God gave us for our salvation?
You no more believe in the bible than the other reprobate.

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Lip service isn't going to get you to heaven.

Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. [SUP] [/SUP]But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
[SUP] [/SUP]There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

I strongly urge you to earnestly judge yourself and diligently seek the face of the Lord, so that you may see the errors of you way.

Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?

There is balm in Gilead. We have the great physician. I urge you to take advantage of both and recover your health.

 

[KittenofMelchisedek]

If anyone thinks they should like to teach, they should know they will be held to a higher standard than others. If you can't be kind to your brethren, and you feel "called", then I submit that you are not answering. Here's a nice little story about a woman and the congregation that suffers her.

Revelation 2:20
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.


This is the only example I know of, of a woman heading a congregation. Jesus doesn't seem mad at her, even gives her space to repent. But with those who rejected scripture b y allowing her to teach, caused her to be used by the enemy to teach people evil things. I'm sure she teaches good things too, because that's how the enemy works. Notice that it's such an affliction the evil that comes from her, that those in the area who would rather she shut up, have only to "hold fast". In a time of great tribulation and judgement, NO other burden is put upon them. Someone needs to lead, and it is given to a man, and if he screws it up, God will judge him. If a woman teach and screw it up, judgement is upon everyone.

I will say this to you. It is part of my calling to reprove pastors, I have never understood why. All I know, is that it's never my words, and it's always in humility and love. Often all that's needed to encourage a man to take charge or stay on course, is one well placed word of scripture. No lecture after, no opinion, now judgement. Just a loving presence. Which is why a married woman is to be silent in churches, so her husband isn't distracted or discouraged. If women waited a minute before they started teaching, maybe a man would step up. If there really isn't a man to teach, have a woman read from scripture and spend the sermon part asking and answering questions like we do here, where we are teaching each other. Adam sinned willfully, but rebellion can be repented of.
Eve was deceived, and unfortunately, I gotta tell you, you can't fix stupid.

If you feel a calling to teach, by all means don't ignore it! Does that mean you get to teach men? No, you can teach other women, you can teach children, you can teach heathens as a missionary.

Deborah was assisting Barak to not be a wus. She wasn't teaching him or being in authority over anyone.
Prescilla would have helped her husband, we don't need to be told that she did the cooking and the cleaning, because that's what was done historically, and anything else would necessitate comment and not the other way around.

I often see women turn down Christ entirely because "the men wont let them be teachers or in charge", I see this attitude all the time, it is the attitude of Jezebel who declared herself to be a prophet. It is often accompanied by intense rage at the men (often including God), and often to the point of lashing out in anger. Funny, people often lash out in anger and then say they were joking....
Just some food for thought.

As for me, I see a woman like that, and I turn around and go the other way. It's sad really, how much of your dignity you can sell to feminism.

Oh and one more thing. To say that someone who holds to the teachings of the Bible, would have a woman refrain from telling someone about Jesus, is inflammatory and divisive.

 

[biscuit]

If anyone thinks they should like to teach, they should know they will be held to a higher standard than others. If you can't be kind to your brethren, and you feel "called", then I submit that you are not answering. Here's a nice little story about a woman and the congregation that suffers her.

Revelation 2:20
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.


This is the only example I know of, of a woman heading a congregation. Jesus doesn't seem mad at her, even gives her space to repent. But with those who rejected scripture b y allowing her to teach, caused her to be used by the enemy to teach people evil things. I'm sure she teaches good things too, because that's how the enemy works. Notice that it's such an affliction the evil that comes from her, that those in the area who would rather she shut up, have only to "hold fast". In a time of great tribulation and judgement, NO other burden is put upon them. Someone needs to lead, and it is given to a man, and if he screws it up, God will judge him. If a woman teach and screw it up, judgement is upon everyone.

I will say this to you. It is part of my calling to reprove pastors, I have never understood why. All I know, is that it's never my words, and it's always in humility and love. Often all that's needed to encourage a man to take charge or stay on course, is one well placed word of scripture. No lecture after, no opinion, now judgement. Just a loving presence. Which is why a married woman is to be silent in churches, so her husband isn't distracted or discouraged. If women waited a minute before they started teaching, maybe a man would step up. If there really isn't a man to teach, have a woman read from scripture and spend the sermon part asking and answering questions like we do here, where we are teaching each other. Adam sinned willfully, but rebellion can be repented of.
Eve was deceived, and unfortunately, I gotta tell you, you can't fix stupid.

If you feel a calling to teach, by all means don't ignore it! Does that mean you get to teach men? No, you can teach other women, you can teach children, you can teach heathens as a missionary.

Deborah was assisting Barak to not be a wus. She wasn't teaching him or being in authority over anyone.
Prescilla would have helped her husband, we don't need to be told that she did the cooking and the cleaning, because that's what was done historically, and anything else would necessitate comment and not the other way around.

I often see women turn down Christ entirely because "the men wont let them be teachers or in charge", I see this attitude all the time, it is the attitude of Jezebel who declared herself to be a prophet. It is often accompanied by intense rage at the men (often including God), and often to the point of lashing out in anger. Funny, people often lash out in anger and then say they were joking....
Just some food for thought.

As for me, I see a woman like that, and I turn around and go the other way. It's sad really, how much of your dignity you can sell to feminism.

Oh and one more thing. To say that someone who holds to the teachings of the Bible, would have a woman refrain from telling someone about Jesus, is inflammatory and divisive.

Are you serious about Jezebel leading a congregation??? This woman was considered the most wicked in her days. She was a self-appointed prophetress who brought Baalism (idols) into Israel as a new religion. She was accused of seducing God's servants to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed to idols. She was eventually thrown from a window and the dogs ate her flesh. By today's standard, she would have labeled a 'witch,' and when does a 'witch' leads a congregation??
Sorry!! you got your story wrong!!

 

[biscuit]

to KittenofMelchisedek:

This a continuation of my post to you. Revelation 2:20 which you use as a reference for Jezebel leading a congregation, is really about one of the seven churches that Jesus was referencing to John. Jesus was making a reference to the Thyatira church , which covered the years 606 AD to 1520 AD, and He used Jezebel to negatively described some dark points regarding the church. In no shape or form was Jesus identifying her as a positive form.

 

[Cobus]

verses supporting please?

Sorry there is not ONE verse supporting women church preachers... not one! there is however many that support women to be silent... And after knowing God's word most men should also be quiet in church. The men today has so little knowledge about the Truth. And God sais HIS PEOPLE WILL KNOW THE TRUTH... and the TRUTH shall make them free... they are NOT free,,,,

but then the Truth is... MANY fasle teahcerrs and Christ's shall arise and mislead MASSES of people... How mislead is people today? God will NEVER appoint a female pastor, NEVER! Not even as a deacon in the church... NEVER.

Oh the ignorent, let them be ignorent, it will be a great fall when the times comes...

Most pastors (male and female) are sinners preaching a HOLY DOCTRINE to sinners.... what a shame, what a mess...

 

[KittenofMelchisedek]

Biscuit.....did you even read my post, or did you decide what I was saying halfway through and just start teaching me why I'm so wrong? If it was a positive thing, God wouldn't condemn them so harshly. Your first comment isn't even talking about the same Jezebel but rather an OT "witch" who's spirit is used in revelations to describe the rebellious spirit taking control and teaching that which is contrary to God. Also, if you let someone do the teaching to the point where the men are LEAD astray, guess who's leading them? the teacher. I just wanted to show the OP the one example I found of a woman teaching men, and how it didn't turn out so good for any of them.

I'm going to shut up now, because I'm not going to debate my point with someone who can't be troubled to read my whole post. Don't quote it then, if you don't want to read it. Just ignore it and move on or whatever, I don't care, but you cannot logically dispute something you don't understand, and you need to read someones comment before you can understand it.

 

[KittenofMelchisedek]

It's our fault as society for there being women leaders of churches. It's common now for men to let women lead them into a hole before they lift a finger. If you ask me they all belong in that hole. Does that make it a good thing? Not in the least.

It's hard even for a man, who God designed to be in charge, not to take over and start preaching some crazy stuff.

This is the first 100 years or so of women being allowed to go about unattached, and as a woman, I don't like it. I would much rather live in my fathers home time I'm married, but that's not the way in America. I am probably more traditional on this than any man here, because I think that when it says "suffer not", that means, whomever's responsible for that woman shut her up. I hope one day if I marry it's to a man that wont mind dragging me off with a hand over my mouth. I mean what if I have a demon? You want to just listen to it? We are way too hands off in this country. Like, Oh no she's talking, who can stop her. I see this happen during testimony time, you give the woman the mic and it starts off as testimony, and then she starts teaching. Ummm, just turn her mic off, how hard is that?

 

[KittenofMelchisedek]

wow, I can't believe half the people voted yes.

God will use whatever he wants, whenever he wants, however he wants....but he will also be the same tomorrow as he is today, and as he was yesterday, and he's the one who calls. You think he's going to call someone to a permanent position (that's being called to ministry, it's long term, not just one morning cuz preachers sick) that he himself told us not to allow?
If teachings lead us astray than teaching is leading and leading is done by men therefor teaching of men is done by other men....I don't see any ifs and's or buts in scripture that would indicate that it would be ok. I've seen people speak with tears in their eyes about how it's a travesty that a homosexual isn't allowed to be a priest, ummmm, have these people read the Bible? Probably not and if they do they don't care what it says. So are they a Christian church? Because this is America, where it's my right to start my own church and call it Christ Chapel or something and teach elemental magik.

 

[biscuit]

Biscuit.....did you even read my post, or did you decide what I was saying halfway through and just start teaching me why I'm so wrong? If it was a positive thing, God wouldn't condemn them so harshly. Your first comment isn't even talking about the same Jezebel but rather an OT "witch" who's spirit is used in revelations to describe the rebellious spirit taking control and teaching that which is contrary to God. Also, if you let someone do the teaching to the point where the men are LEAD astray, guess who's leading them? the teacher. I just wanted to show the OP the one example I found of a woman teaching men, and how it didn't turn out so good for any of them.

I'm going to shut up now, because I'm not going to debate my point with someone who can't be troubled to read my whole post. Don't quote it then, if you don't want to read it. Just ignore it and move on or whatever, I don't care, but you cannot logically dispute something you don't understand, and you need to read someones comment before you can understand it.

Okay!! If you 'fumble' the ball, I am going to call you out on it. There are various levels of knowledge of bible expertise on CC, so don't think you can post anything and not have some of us call you out on it.

 

[ola]

God can call woman to *preach and lead in the Church, it depends on how that woman give her life to Christ.

 

[biscuit]

God can call woman to *preach and lead in the Church, it depends on how that woman give her life to Christ.

Please provide info from the Scriptures to back up your claim.

 

[The_highwayman]

Please provide info from the Scriptures to back up your claim.

Biscuit,
How do you account for the fact MEN in the church have laid down their rightful place in the pulpit for the last 50 years and God being God has risen up women to take certain roles, because men have laid down their rightful place as spiritual high priest of the home and the church.

or are you so blinded by a interpretation of a bad doctrine, that women need to be barefoot, round bellied and serving you with duct tape across their mouth!?!?!?

I know many active female missionaries that could smoke most male pastors today in teaching and preaching

I think most like you will be very shocked to find out the God is indeed no respecter of persons and the callings and the gifts are without repentance.

I cannot wait for the millions like you to get the much needed kick in the backside from Paul, as he says: That is not at all what I was saying...

 

[biscuit]

Biscuit,
How do you account for the fact MEN in the church have laid down their rightful place in the pulpit for the last 50 years and God being God has risen up women to take certain roles, because men have laid down their rightful place as spiritual high priest of the home and the church.

or are you so blinded by a interpretation of a bad doctrine, that women need to be barefoot, round bellied and serving you with duct tape across their mouth!?!?!?

I know many active female missionaries that could smoke most male pastors today in teaching and preaching

I think most like you will be very shocked to find out the God is indeed no respecter of persons and the callings and the gifts are without repentance.

I cannot wait for the millions like you to get the much needed kick in the backside from Paul, as he says: That is not at all what I was saying...

Just because there are women priests does not mean God approved of it. I guess posters will be saying next that God approved for gays to be priests & pastors. The OT & NT make it perfectly clear that God only wants males to preach from the pulpit. God doesn't change and He is not "political correct." Again, please show passages in the OT & NT that He approves of women and/or gays at the pulpit. If there are women priests and pastors preaching from the pulpit, then the church has disobey God.

 

[LovePink]

Hmm, is God the god of denominational religion? I don't think so, He is not the god of confusion. What religious system today did God give for worshipping Him? We are God's temple, we are called to be ambassadors, right? Time to rethink the "pulpit" of religious institutions and be Bereans of the doctines of men. I have no desire to lead men, but I enjoy fellowship, sharing & sharing in the gospel and the word of God with them. Ambassadors do not assimilate.

 

[The_highwayman]

Just because there are women priests does not mean God approved of it. I guess posters will be saying next that God approved for gays to be priests & pastors. The OT & NT make it perfectly clear that God only wants males to preach from the pulpit. God doesn't change and He is not "political correct." Again, please show passages in the OT & NT that He approves of women and/or gays at the pulpit. If there are women priests and pastors preaching from the pulpit, then the church has disobey God.

God has always made a way, your belief is based on a doctrine and nowhere in the Bible does it say in black and white or red that a woman cannot be a pastor, BISHOP is not the same word for Pastor.

You are dodging the real issue, so I will ask you again. Are not men who were called by God to be the spiritual head of the house and church that lay down this responsibility also living in disobedience? and does not the Bible show that while God does not change he has at times repented of things. for your dull ears, that means to change his mind and go a different direction?

The fact is that even the Baptist denominations keep it very quiet that men have stopped being the spiritual high priest of their homes and churches for decades.

I guess you are one of the million that believes PAUL is the way, the truth and the Life,because nowhere in the Bible does GOD say or Jesus say a woman cannot preach or teach the word...pay attention Biscuit, I said preach and teach not Pastor.

Please never ,ever again suggest I agree with Gays or Lesbians in the pulpit, because I don't and stay on topic.

 

[KittenofMelchisedek]

If you believe women belong in the pulpit, you might as well not care if she likes girls in bed more than a man.

Please by all means, call me out. I want to be corrected if my argument is inaccurate. Just read the whole post first ;-)

Oh and btw, on the topic of gender roles....Paul wrote quite a bit of SCRIPTURE so if you don't like it, take it up with the Holy Spirit. And yes bishop and deacon are different roles, both are for men, although women can deacon as an adjective. (ie she deaconed, or served) So if a woman wants to be the head of a nicolaitan institution which is hated by Christ. I say LET HER, just don't participate, leave the presence of that congregation if you have to. People are going to do what their going to do. This is a part of the falling away that must happen before the return of our Beloved.


In my opinion, it's healthy to be barefoot, women are designed to carry babies, and a little duct tape goes a long way.

 

[GreenNnice]

Can a woman be used by God to change a church around?

Do you think there are any examples out there of a woman pastor coming in to a congregation that was 'dead,' that was not doing things to produce fruit, and, through her leadership, the church turned around to be no longer losing members but gaining members and missionary funds increased and overall health of church financially.

Who is in control of that growth?
Who did God deem worthy to lead that change?
Whose faith do you think grew as a result of this church becoming 'alive,' again

Now, you understand what I mean by the word 'called.'

Also, no, no, NO, the proper order, per Paul speaking in 1 Tim. 2:13,14 is man, first. Don't understand me wrong, please. But, as Paul does not want to 'suffer' listening to a woman speaking to him in church or teaching him, in a pastoring role, he explains why in those two 1 Tim. verses: man (Adam) created first. Woman (Eve) deceived, not man.

Again, just because God tells us to do something, or, not do something, in this case, being women in authority teaching and preaching to men, it does not mean that a woman will NOT come up to God and say, 'I want to pastor. I CAN do this !'

And, so.......God, then, increases that woman's faith as she, maybe, is called to attend seminary, and , provided funds to do so and work opportunities to learn ministry before going out on God's will to pastor her own congregation.
--------
And, why are there so many who say 'no' to God not being able to have a woman 'called' to ministry? It should be zero 'no' and ALL 'yes.' Just should. Otherwise, you are wanting to play God, or, read God's mind, thinking that woman is rebelling against God's will for her life, without, actually, knowing what God knows.

What does God know that I don't know, green? I can read the bible and know all Truth?

True, but, the bible does tell us that only God KNOWS that person's heart

 

[LovePink]

Kitten,

No need to be so extreme. Although, I am amused.

In my opinion, it's healthy to be barefoot, women are designed to carry babies, and a little duct tape goes a long way.

... lol,

Keep calm and go make me a sandwich.

Comes to mind, haha.

 

[FORHISGLORY]

Paul stated that he didn't permit women to teach men. There's no record of a woman Pastor anywhere in the New Testament. The passage that really should speak to our churches today concerning the role of women can be found in 1 Timothy 2:11-15.It's unfortunate that women and churches operate outside the boundaries of scripture.

 

[phil112]

If you believe women belong in the pulpit, you might as well not care if she likes girls in bed more than a man.

Please by all means, call me out. I want to be corrected if my argument is inaccurate. Just read the whole post first ;-)

Oh and btw, on the topic of gender roles....Paul wrote quite a bit of SCRIPTURE so if you don't like it, take it up with the Holy Spirit. And yes bishop and deacon are different roles, both are for men, although women can deacon as an adjective. (ie she deaconed, or served) So if a woman wants to be the head of a nicolaitan institution which is hated by Christ. I say LET HER, just don't participate, leave the presence of that congregation if you have to. People are going to do what their going to do. This is a part of the falling away that must happen before the return of our Beloved.


In my opinion, it's healthy to be barefoot, women are designed to carry babies, and a little duct tape goes a long way.

I can't say as I agree with much of your beliefs, but you aren't far off here.