Can Catholics be saved?

[pinebeach]

PS: Yes, Catholics can absolutely be saved if they put their faith in Christ and understand the Biblical definition of salvation

All the Mary stuff etc should be put aside. In fact, you don't even have to change churches...with all the apostasy in so many so
called 'Christian' churches these days, I don't see much difference

 

[Meacham]

infants can't be sanctified? how about unborn babies?

thks

Huh?

 

[memberofthebride]

So you do not adhere to anything past the gospels, with the possible exception of Acts?

I study both the Old and the New, if the new seems to contradicts the Old I find out why.
there are no contradictions, but some things are difficult to understand
the Old is needed to understand the New,
some times I must be patient, it may take a few years before something can be understood
the Father and Christ do NOT Change.
there is a progression that must be understood in both. First is the physical and then the Spiritual
Passover, the physical was a lamb
the spiritual Passover is Christ.
Peter tells us Paul is hard to understand and has caused many to stumble
and I see many stumbling because of Paul and they demand they do so

Again, my path is the narrow one that only the few find, and I did not find it, I was dragged it to it.
what I do and what I believe, 98% never heard from the pulpit or understood from the Word.
When everything revolves around xmas, easter, sunday and grace, it is hard to see past.

 

[LTL]

I don't think being rude to Catholics is very helpful. Does it make you a better Christian? Don't think so. I don't agree with Catholicism, but calling Catholics fools is not going to help.

but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, I Peter 3:15

P,
I defend the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And when I see a fool, I am as nice as I can be.

Nevertheless, I am of the opinion that Lord Jesus has his role, and I, as his servant, have my role.
And my role is not to be lovey-dovey and soft and loving but to state the truth as is given to me by the Savior.

So no. I am not your typical Christian who loves others to salvation. My job is to stand firm against liars. And if someone is a fool, I will state as such.

You, on the other hand, can love them as you wish, but I will not. I will stand firm with the Savior, and I expect the same of others. And by the way, I respect those who stand for their doctrinal belief. But when that belief is evil, then there is no more respect from me, but call them out as the demons they represent.

So you are part of the problem in yielding to these "let's all get along at any cost" doctrines. The Catholic church is evil, and the leaders who wear their fish head hats are going to hell for bringing such doctrine upon the saints of God.

Wake up!

 

[pinebeach]

I study both the Old and the New, if the new seems to contradicts the Old I find out why.
there are no contradictions, but some things are difficult to understand
the Old is needed to understand the New,
some times I must be patient, it may take a few years before something can be understood
the Father and Christ do NOT Change.
there is a progression that must be understood in both. First is the physical and then the Spiritual
Passover, the physical was a lamb
the spiritual Passover is Christ.
Peter tells us Paul is hard to understand and has caused many to stumble
and I see many stumbling because of Paul and they demand they do so

I believe the old is a 'must have' foundation for understanding the NT.

I have read that "Paul is hard to understand" only in this forum, believe it or not. I know what Peter said...but what he stated was in reference to this:

There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures II Peter 3: 16

So Peter does not say disregard Paul so you don't get mixed up...he actually says that those who twist what Paul states, also gwist other scriptures to their own destruction, so take that as you will. He indicates that if someone stumbles, it is there own doing. If you see many stumbling over what Paul writes, then perhaps you have also twisted what he wrote because of the way you approach scripture...that is actually what Peter states...not my words.

Again, my path is the narrow one that only the few find, and I did not find it, I was dragged it to it.
what I do and what I believe, 98% never heard from the pulpit or understood from the Word.
When everything revolves around xmas, easter, sunday and grace, it is hard to see past.

This narrow path you describe as being dragged into; IMO it outside of biblical parameters but I have no misconception of 'dragged' you out of it. I'm not responsible for what you have accepted...being dragged into it included. I have not been dragged into anything, but through prayer and seeking Go, have understanding as He has granted and he journey is not over.

I will say you are certainly bold in your assertions but that does not mean correct. I would be interested in knowing what 'dragged' you into your 'path' but only if you want to spill the beans as this forum does not demand any one of us can deman something of another...unless of course you are a Calvinst or KJV onlyist

 

[Meacham]

where is this n

Infant Baptism!
Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

Acts 1:8
Witness of Augustine!

It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).

thks

You pretty much saying infants go to hell if they don’t get baptized. That’s ridiculous

Infant Baptism!
Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

Acts 1:8
Witness of Augustine!

It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D.

even born again christians can reject Christ or faith

we born again by the spirit alone?
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

scripture says water and the spirit?

where is this n scripture?

thks

The Bible does not teach infant baptism as a requirement to be saved or regenerated. If your trying to say that infants where circumcised so infants should be baptized then you would have to exclude female infants in all baptisms. The household would be saved by sanctification just like an unbelieving spouse is set apart (sanctified) through the believing spouse as it says in 1 Cor 7:14. We do not baptize an unbelieving adult so we? So why would we baptize a baby? The only prerequisite to being baptized is faith and belief! No where in scripture does it teach infant water baptisms. You mentioned fetuses too. If a household had a pregnant mother and also babies who were not at a believing age(age of accountability) then it would make sense that if you were came to faith and belief in Jesus than your whole household would be in the faith because the parent or parents were as well. We have the book of James that teaches us if anyone lacks in wisdom to ask God who gives to all freely and without reproach.

 

[Meacham]

You pretty much saying infants go to hell if they don’t get baptized. That’s ridiculous





The Bible does not teach infant baptism as a requirement to be saved or regenerated. If your trying to say that infants where circumcised so infants should be baptized then you would have to exclude female infants in all baptisms. The household would be saved by sanctification just like an unbelieving spouse is set apart (sanctified) through the believing spouse as it says in 1 Cor 7:14. We do not baptize an unbelieving adult so we? So why would we baptize a baby? The only prerequisite to being baptized is faith and belief! No where in scripture does it teach infant water baptisms. You mentioned fetuses too. If a household had a pregnant mother and also babies who were not at a believing age(age of accountability) then it would make sense that if you were came to faith and belief in Jesus than your whole household would be in the faith because the parent or parents were as well. We have the book of James that teaches us if anyone lacks in wisdom to ask God who gives to all freely and without reproach.

Prerequisites to being saved is belief and faith.
Prerequisites to baptisms(the believers baptism)
Mark 16:16
Acts 8:12
Acts 8:13
Acts 18:8
Believing and then being baptized. Notice that coming to believe comes first before being baptized. A professing believer would be baptized!
1 Corinthians 1:16
Paul baptized them and sent them out to minister because they were of age.

 

[pinebeach]

P,
I defend the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And when I see a fool, I am as nice as I can be.

I thought I might help you to see how we can help others rather than offend them.

Nevertheless, I am of the opinion that Lord Jesus has his role, and I, as his servant, have my role.
And my role is not to be lovey-dovey and soft and loving but to state the truth as is given to me by the Savior.

Uhhuh. Alot people seem to see that around here and I often wonder if they would be that 'bold' to their pastor or other church members, allowing for the possibility they go to church or answer to anyone at all.

So no. I am not your typical Christian who loves others to salvation. My job is to stand firm against liars. And if someone is a fool, I will state as such.

Well, apparently your Bible reads a little different from the several different translations I have, not to mention what is available online. But good for you. Sorry though. You are far more typical than you seem to understand which seems to be why scripture flies in the face of such an attitude.

So you are part of the problem in yielding to these "let's all get along at any cost" doctrines. The Catholic church is evil, and the leaders who wear their fish head hats are going to hell for bringing such doctrine upon the saints of God.

You assume an awful about someone you do not know but there are many people who would tell you I do not fit your profiling of me and that would be outside of this forum because I don't say here what I have never said in public. But whatever

Well, you don't have to accept scripture of course, but that is on you and not on
one single Catholic. You are doing what you accuse them of doing.

 

[memberofthebride]

I believe the old is a 'must have' foundation for understanding the NT.

I have read that "Paul is hard to understand" only in this forum, believe it or not. I know what Peter said...but what he stated was in reference to this:

There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures II Peter 3: 16

So Peter does not say disregard Paul so you don't get mixed up...he actually says that those who twist what Paul states, also gwist other scriptures to their own destruction, so take that as you will. He indicates that if someone stumbles, it is there own doing. If you see many stumbling over what Paul writes, then perhaps you have also twisted what he wrote because of the way you approach scripture...that is actually what Peter states...not my words.



This narrow path you describe as being dragged into; IMO it outside of biblical parameters but I have no misconception of 'dragged' you out of it. I'm not responsible for what you have accepted...being dragged into it included. I have not been dragged into anything, but through prayer and seeking Go, have understanding as He has granted and he journey is not over.

I will say you are certainly bold in your assertions but that does not mean correct. I would be interested in knowing what 'dragged' you into your 'path' but only if you want to spill the beans as this forum does not demand any one of us can deman something of another...unless of course you are a Calvinst or KJV onlyist

I had no religious experience other then a few times at some church where the minister ran off with some man's wife, when I was a young teenage. after that it was over.

I viewed "being religious" as being queer, a girly man. I was strong, very athletic a mans man.

Many things happened causing me to read the Bible for the first time in my life at 28.

What I read was not what I saw in the churches or in those that went to church.
What I knew about the bible I got from the movies.
I was ashamed I was begin to believe there was a God, I hid!
its a long story but here I am on that very narrow path and I am no longer ashamed!

I was called, I did not come on my own, I had zero interest , I was drugged in, loving and hating it,

 

[LTL]

I thought I might help you to see how we can help others rather than offend them.

Uhhuh. Alot people seem to see that around here and I often wonder if they would be that 'bold' to their pastor or other church members, allowing for the possibility they go to church or answer to anyone at all.



Well, apparently your Bible reads a little different from the several different translations I have, not to mention what is available online. But good for you. Sorry though. You are far more typical than you seem to understand which seems to be why scripture flies in the face of such an attitude.



You assume an awful about someone you do not know but there are many people who would tell you I do not fit your profiling of me and that would be outside of this forum because I don't say here what I have never said in public. But whatever

Well, you don't have to accept scripture of course, but that is on you and not on
one single Catholic. You are doing what you accuse them of doing.

I love it. Thank you for standing on your belief.
Nevertheless, the one church that brought together many false doctrines and then caused the world to accept those false doctrines is the Catholic church. Not to say that other churches do not have false doctrines. But the Catholic Church is demonic.

So, while I am not willing to offend those who are near me. They do understand my position with regard to following the Savior. But you; however, are a scriptorian. So you should know better.

 

[LTL]

Prerequisites to being saved is belief and faith.
Prerequisites to baptisms(the believers baptism)
Mark 16:16
Acts 8:12
Acts 8:13
Acts 18:8
Believing and then being baptized. Notice that coming to believe comes first before being baptized. A professing believer would be baptized!
1 Corinthians 1:16
Paul baptized them and sent them out to minister because they were of age.

M,
If someone has not sinned, do they need to be forgiven?
Do babies sin?
If someone has a problem seeing the correct answer for each question, then not only are you a fool, but you are brain-dead to the Savior's gospel message as well.

P, can I say fool and brain-dead in the context of the above verses?

 

[pinebeach]

I love it. Thank you for standing on your belief.
Nevertheless, the one church that brought together many false doctrines and then caused the world to accept those false doctrines is the Catholic church. Not to say that other churches do not have false doctrines. But the Catholic Church is demonic.

So, while I am not willing to offend those who are near me. They do understand my position with regard to following the Savior. But you; however, are a scriptorian. So you should know better.

The Catholic church is far from the only organization that has brought false doctrines to the forefront

But you are ok with offending me by saying I should know better. LOL! I simply offered scripture which you don't think applies to this forum/thread even though no one here is a Catholic bishop or priest but just regular people who wonder why such a believer as yourself seems to believe insults are the best way to go.

You should know better. You should also not include me in your insults.

 

[LTL]

The Catholic church is far from the only organization that has brought false doctrines to the forefront

But you are ok with offending me by saying I should know better. LOL! I simply offered scripture which you don't think applies to this forum/thread even though no one here is a Catholic bishop or priest but just regular people who wonder why such a believer as yourself seems to believe insults are the best way to go.

You should know better. You should also not include me in your insults.

Many people will be condemned to eternal hell because the papa causes them to take the mark of the beast. And I realize that you are not able to see the vile wickedness of these demons.

But you should have been exposed to the testimonies of the saints here on this site. If you were a new Christian, then that is one thing. But you are not. And I hope the best for you. Nevertheless, the saints placate way too much.

Stand your ground in Jesus Christ for the salvation of souls.

And yes, I do know some Catholics. And yes, I am nice to them. Because I know they are being fooled by demons. Nevertheless, I do try to teach them. But you simply want us to all get along. You should stand for your testimony in Jesus Christ. Not, let's all get along.

And I do feel for you. Obviously, a beautiful person. But someone needs to let you know how to stand. And I am doing my part.

 

[pinebeach]

Many people will be condemned to eternal hell because the papa causes them to take the mark of the beast. And I realize that you are not able to see the vile wickedness of these demons.

But you should have been exposed to the testimonies of the saints here on this site. If you were a new Christian, then that is one thing. But you are not. And I hope the best for you. Nevertheless, the saints placate way too much.

Stand your ground in Jesus Christ for the salvation of souls.

And yes, I do know some Catholics. And yes, I am nice to them. Because I know they are being fooled by demons. Nevertheless, I do try to teach them. But you simply want us to all get along. You should stand for your testimony in Jesus Christ. Not, let's all get along.

And I do feel for you. Obviously, a beautiful person. But someone needs to let you know how to stand. And I am doing my part.

You've been here what? just about 6 mths, and think you are teaching me? I am always open to actual instruction but not when the motive is to somehow appear to be the bigger better Christian who has an 'unction' from God and can overwrite scripture because they have the idea God needs them to do so.

This is the 1st time I have exchanged posts with you, as far as I can remember, and yet you act like you know all about me. No one
here knows all about me even though I have been here for yrs. This is a forum and wisdom dictates you don't tell your lifestory to strangers on a forum.

Your post here is contradictory to your actual response in this thread but why would that bother you when you are so capable of judging and correcting you don't need to look in the mirror. I'll let you know there are probably more people like you, or at least half, in this forum that are just like you.

But someone needs to let you know how to stand. And I am doing my part.

LOL! You have no clue who I know outside of this forum. You have no clue what I do or have done. You do not know me but are basing your entire nonsense on the one verse I posted because of your rude comments and name calling.

Actually, YOU need someone to let you know about your behavior and today, that person was me

Done with it and not responding to further of your dishonesty. All over a verse from the Bible. You can't make this stuff up smh

 

[pinebeach]

Oh wait wait! I see you do not attend church LTL. So, this is your opportunity to have a go at public speaking.

Got it. LOL! Never mind. I do understand much better now.

But do consider me a non-participant in your judgements as they are meaningless when someone ignores actual scripture but thinks they have a special calling from God because surely those words apply to everyone else.

Still done with it.

 

[Meacham]

M,
If someone has not sinned, do they need to be forgiven?
Do babies sin?
If someone has a problem seeing the correct answer for each question, then not only are you a fool, but you are brain-dead to the Savior's gospel message as well.

P, can I say fool and brain-dead in the context of the above

M,
If someone has not sinned, do they need to be forgiven?
Do babies sin?
If someone has a problem seeing the correct answer for each question, then not only are you a fool, but you are brain-dead to the Savior's gospel message as well.

P, can I say fool and brain-dead in the context of the above verses?

?

 

[tourist]

PS: Yes, Catholics can absolutely be saved if they put their faith in Christ and understand the Biblical definition of salvation

All the Mary stuff etc should be put aside. In fact, you don't even have to change churches...with all the apostasy in so many so
called 'Christian' churches these days, I don't see much difference

I fully concur with your estimation.

 

[LTL]

Oh wait wait! I see you do not attend church LTL. So, this is your opportunity to have a go at public speaking.

Got it. LOL! Never mind. I do understand much better now.

But do consider me a non-participant in your judgements as they are meaningless when someone ignores actual scripture but thinks they have a special calling from God because surely those words apply to everyone else.

Still done with it.

P,
don't give up so easily.

I was on a site like this years ago. And I had some friends. I remember one young woman named Natalie. Some great guys as well. It may have been this site.

But now that the tribulation is close, then you as well as others need to toughen up. Solidify your testimonies in Jesus Christ.

And I do believe you have strong testimonies. But if you take the mark of the beast which the Catholic Church will sponsor, then you will loose your salvation (Rev. 14:9-11).

 

[LTL]

?

The answer is no to each question.
Babies can not sin becasue they do not know good from evil.
Therefore, babies have no need to be forgiven.
And babies do not need to be baptized for the remission of sins.

Only a statnic church would come up with such a doctrine requiring babies to be baptized.
Did Jesus or his apostles baptize babies?

 

[Meacham]

The answer is no to each question.
Babies can not sin becasue they do not know good from evil.
Therefore, babies have no need to be forgiven.
And babies do not need to be baptized for the remission of sins.

Only a statnic church would come up with such a doctrine requiring babies to be baptized.
Did Jesus or his apostles baptize babies?

I agree with you. Did I miss something?