Can someone lose their salvation?

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eternally-grateful


YOU SAID: 2. Your right faith and eternal life is a gift. which means it can NEVER BE EARNED, yet you are trying to earn it, even if you deny you are doing this


Don't confuse "earning" salvation with being "obedient" because I'm saved.

The Lord did not save me to be "A WORKER OF INIQUITY" He saved me to do the works of what He made me....RIGHTEOUS!

For one to discipline his flesh to be subject to the Word of God, and to daily inventory the sin that may be in his life and to pray and strive to be more Christ like everyday....To think that anyone would see this as "Working" to earn your salvation is troubling...that's like saying that just because I wear suits and have a beard and choose to use the restroom that has MEN on the door, that I'm working to earn my title as a Man. I do those things because I am a Man, not because I'm trying to "Earn" the right to be called one.

 
IMINJC said:
eternally-grateful


YOU SAID: 2. Your right faith and eternal life is a gift. which means it can NEVER BE EARNED, yet you are trying to earn it, even if you deny you are doing this


Don't confuse "earning" salvation with being "obedient" because I'm saved.

The Lord did not save me to be "A WORKER OF INIQUITY" He saved me to do the works of what He made me....RIGHTEOUS!
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Then your his son, and that sonship can never be lost. if you think you can lose it, you are trying to earn it. and thus it is not a gift. and by the way, you also WILL be righteous, but not perfect

For one to discipline his flesh to be subject to the Word of God, and to daily inventory the sin that may be in his life and to pray and strive to be more Christ like everyday....To think that anyone would see this as "Working" to earn your salvation is troubling...that's like saying that just because I wear suits and have a beard and choose to use the restroom that has MEN on the door, that I'm working to earn my title as a Man. I do those things because I am a Man, not because I'm trying to "Earn" the right to be called one.
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My friend, if your saying do this every day or else. you are doing it to earn salvation. It is not troubling to say it, it is fact. Your trying to gain salvation by the law, and not by Grace through faith. Your trusting yourself to do the work, and not trusting Christ to WORK IN YOU to conform you to the image of his son. If you did, you would know you HAD eternal life, and would be his son forever, and never lose this sonship even when you screw up. And we would not be having this discussion, for you would believe as I do.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Then your his son, and that sonship can never be lost. if you think you can lose it, you are trying to earn it. and thus it is not a gift. and by the way, you also WILL be righteous, but not perfect



My friend, if your saying do this every day or else. you are doing it to earn salvation. It is not troubling to say it, it is fact. Your trying to gain salvation by the law, and not by Grace through faith. Your trusting yourself to do the work, and not trusting Christ to WORK IN YOU to conform you to the image of his son. If you did, you would know you HAD eternal life, and would be his son forever, and never lose this sonship even when you screw up. And we would not be having this discussion, for you would believe as I do.
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Boy does the bible teach something that is totally different on perfection. Heb. 10;14 "For by the ONE offering He has PERFECT FOR ALL TIME THOSE WHO ARE SANCTIFIED. (set aside) But ha what does the holy spirit know about it.
 
enochson said:
Boy does the bible teach something that is totally different on perfection. Heb. 10;14 "For by the ONE offering He has PERFECT FOR ALL TIME THOSE WHO ARE SANCTIFIED. (set aside) But ha what does the holy spirit know about it.
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Yeah, My bible does teach that those who are his are sanctified through his death. Not because of our works. And it is for all time, which is what I have been saying since day one. I am confused as to whether your mocking me or agreeing with me..lol
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Yeah, My bible does teach that those who are his are sanctified through his death. Not because of our works. And it is for all time, which is what I have been saying since day one. I am confused as to whether your mocking me or agreeing with me..lol
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I don't beleive this one or that one is made this way by there action. They are made this way by the action of God through Jesus Christ and I don't see a God who has a higher reguard for one person more then another because of there action. I believe in the long run all will come to see it and bow before Him. The point is we are in the body of Christ and if that body isn't perfect we are in disbielf. And salvation is of the lord and not of man God wills it to be and thereby it is.
 
enochson said:
I don't beleive this one or that one is made this way by there action. They are made this way by the action of God through Jesus Christ and I don't see a God who has a higher reguard for one person more then another because of there action. I believe in the long run all will come to see it and bow before Him. The point is we are in the body of Christ and if that body isn't perfect we are in disbielf. And salvation is of the lord and not of man God wills it to be and thereby it is.
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And this my friend, is what we must come to before we can truly repent and seek after the love of God, and trust in him and him alone for salvation. When we see ourselves as equal to all men, totally undeserving of Gods love and that he looks at us ALL as sinners, then and only then can we have enough humility to trust God, and get out of Gods way and allow him to save us.

Well said my friend!
 
eternally-grateful


YOU SAID: Again, this is where we disagree. If you do not teach OSAS (not the licentious form)


You see when we examine the phrase Once Saved Always Saved.. it implies that no matter what a person does after salvation, they will always be saved. They can choose to live a sexually perverted life style and have nothing to fear from the Lord, they can choose to murder at will and have nothing to fear from the Lord, they can choose to be habitual liars, cheaters, prostitutes, pimps, theives and mobsters and still have nothing to fear from the Lord. His coming wrath on the Day of the Lord does not apply to them. One would say that they have a licence to sin. You however, object to this foolishness theology. We both can agree, that this portion is a false doctrine.

Now what you would say is that those that were once a part of the Church, who now have left the Church have proved that they were never part of the Church by leaving, so they really didn't lose their salvation because they never had it in the first place. I get that and agree with it....but what do you say about the person who professes salvation in Christ and chooses to be a stripper and a prostitute, attends church regularly and refuses to give up her chosen life style?... I say this person is no different than those who were once a part and have left the church. They may be a little worse, since they continue to bring open shame on the congregation of the Lord. This person should be ministered to, but if she refuses to be converted, than she must be removed from the Lord's congregation until she repents. If she dies and never made the decision to repent of this life style, then according to the Word of God her soul will be lost forever.

If you have a different opinion concerning the fate of this persons soul, then we can continue our discussion based on what the Bible has to say about it.
 
IMINJC said:
eternally-grateful


YOU SAID: Again, this is where we disagree. If you do not teach OSAS (not the licentious form)


You see when we examine the phrase Once Saved Always Saved.. it implies that no matter what a person does after salvation, they will always be saved. They can choose to live a sexually perverted life style and have nothing to fear from the Lord, they can choose to murder at will and have nothing to fear from the Lord, they can choose to be habitual liars, cheaters, prostitutes, pimps, theives and mobsters and still have nothing to fear from the Lord. His coming wrath on the Day of the Lord does not apply to them. One would say that they have a licence to sin. You however, object to this foolishness theology. We both can agree, that this portion is a false doctrine.
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which is why I wish to separate myself from licentious teachings. Yes they teach this. However, that does not make me one of them.

However, I would be careful what I say, those people you speak of are the very people Christ went to, and one of the reasons the religious sector hated him, He did not come to them and puff up their religious deeds, he went to the sinners, and drank with them. It was a prostitute who rubbed her hair with perfume to anoint the feet of Christ was it not? And did not Paul call one of the sinners in the corinthian Church a Brother, even though he was in sexual sin that even the world considered evil? And tell us we are to go into the world of these sinners and bring them to Christ, but not associate with a brother who does it. For it is God who judges the world, we we can judge (discipline) a brother who is in sin?

The problem is, we ALL sin. And we all have our besetting sin. Yes Christians can and will struggle with all those sins you mentioned. But we have our own besetting sins, Which may not be as evil in our minds as those people, but are still sin worthy of death.

remember two things. If we look at the law, God imposed a stiffer penalty for certain sins based on the amount of damage and harm they can cause to a society. Just like their are stiffer disciplines for certain sins in the church, such as the ones you mentioned. But the eating of a peace of fruit was evil enough to separate man from God, Scripture states if we break the least of all Gods law, we are as guilty as if we broke all of them. We can't judge a persons salvic state based on what sin they struggle with, because we all sin.

the second. Paul said ALL THINGS ARE LAWFULL, but not all are profitable. A sinning brother in Christ will have it worse than a sinning non believer, Because they are chastened by God.

A licentious believer shows no change at all in attitude toward sin, They show no change in lifestyle, if you looked at them, you could not tell them as being different than they were before they supposedly accepted Christ.

A true believer will show works. Will show a change in attitude towards Christ, If you look at their whole life before and after, you will see a change. But guess what. They may still struggle with deep sexual sin. Am I going to say he is not saved, or call him licentious because he struggles with one bessetting sin? Who am I to judge (I will however, with my church, go through the cucles of discipline for that brother, up to and including excommunication until they discontinue their sin. Just like paul said in 1 cor 2.

I have been witness, part of, and heard of many of these disciplinary things in my church and others. You want to know the amazing thing? almost ALL have stopped before the final disciplinary thing takes place (taken in front of the whole congregation and challenged) I know of only a few who made it that far. And they were asked to leave the church and not come back, buy the church. Most of them stayed away for awhile. But guess what. The chastening of God always brings a true brother back. When they hit rock bottom because they lost their fathers provisions. They had no place else to turn, They came back and asked forgiveness, and it was granted. This is what paul meant when he said send them into the world so their flesh may be destroyed but their spirit saved. I have witnessed it a few times.

so we must be carefull, the fine line between licentiousness and grace can be a thin one.



Now what you would say is that those that were once a part of the Church, who now have left the Church have proved that they were never part of the Church by leaving, so they really didn't lose their salvation because they never had it in the first place. I get that and agree with it....but what do you say about the person who professes salvation in Christ and chooses to be a stripper and a prostitute, attends church regularly and refuses to give up her chosen life style?... I say this person is no different than those who were once a part and have left the church. They may be a little worse, since they continue to bring open shame on the congregation of the Lord.
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This person should be ministered to, but if she refuses to be converted, than she must be removed from the Lord's congregation until she repents. If she dies and never made the decision to repent of this life style, then according to the Word of God her soul will be lost forever.
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All manner of sin and blasphemy WILL be forgiven men. But blasphemy of the HS will not be forgiven now or ever.

She would only be condemned if she rejected Christ. Christ paid for her sin.

Now I would question her motives. I would question why she was doing it. And yes, If she did not stop, I would send her to the world. But I would never question if she was saved or not. I am not God. again, is she licentious? I can not know this unless I know her whole life and knew she did not change anything or do any work in the name of Christ.

The one who denies Christ denys the HS who is the one who teaches us all the Gospel. and commits the only unpardonable sin. That is why they were never saved. They never fully trusted the gospel he came to teach. No one will be tried for their sin at the great white throne judgment. They are condemned because they rejected Christ's offer of salvation, period.

The one who sins? We all sin. People want to focus on certain sins, And yes certain sins demand harsher punishment from the church. But we are all sinners. And not one of us deserve eternal life.

Again, as I said in another thread. If I go 5 miles an hour over the spead limit. I have sinned, the penalty of that sin is death

if I get angry at another driver, and have road rage instead of patience. I have sinned and the penalty of that sin is death.

If my neighbor has something I covet. I have sinned, the penalty of that sin is death

If I see someone in need, and refuse to help them, even though God has given me the ability to. I have sinned, the penalty of that sin is death.

If I have an evil thought, Or have pride. I have sinned, the penalty is death.

How often do we do these things every day? Thus how often do we receive a death penalty every day? If we saw ourselves from Gods perspective, we would realize just how "wretched" we all are, just like Paul did in Romans 7. And we would not sit in judgment of these people, for we would see ourselves as really no better than they are. We would instead love them more. and love heals many wounds, and helps stop many sins. Where judgment only alienates people.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
And this my friend, is what we must come to before we can truly repent and seek after the love of God, and trust in him and him alone for salvation. When we see ourselves as equal to all men, totally undeserving of Gods love and that he looks at us ALL as sinners, then and only then can we have enough humility to trust God, and get out of Gods way and allow him to save us.

Well said my friend!
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Ok let look at this for a second. I know the teaching of the church doctrine is man is undeserving of the love of God but I for one think this a flase statement because that would mean God is a fool. Why would He die for man if He didn't think we were worth it? As for repentence this is a act of God in the innterman to teach man the new creation but love and grace and has nothing to do with the salvation of the man. Jesus act is the only salvation of man and His belief and faith in God is the act that brings it upon the new creation of God. You must understand I have never agianst anybody they are all my kin. I do have a dislike for things that man has past down as truth.
 
eternally-greatful.


Just as I thought..You and I could serve together in the Lord, your thought process concerning things along these lines is not much different from mine. The only thing I would like to point out is that a woman who had been delivered and repented of the life style of prostitution washed Jesus feet with her hair...I'm sure you knew that, but I thought I should mention it. Paul did call the brother in sexual sin "brother" but he also instructed the church to cast him out and turn him over to Satan with the hope that he would repent lest his soul is destroyed on the day of the Lord. Also remember when the Rich Man addressed Abraham from the place of torment?, Abraham still referred to him as "Son".

If we both had to work together in dealing with such matters in our Lords Church, I would be proud to work at your side. I find nothing wrong with how you see these things, it is certainly scriptural and it may not be as aggressive as me, but compassion in these situations is certainly superior to aggression because our Lord is most certainly compassionate to us.
 
eternally-greatful


Oh yeah...the girls name was ROXANNE...I believe "Sting" from the rock group "The Police" testified about her. LOL!

Depending how old you are will determine if you get this joke or not. LoL
 
If you can't 'righteous' your way into it then you can't sin your way out of it!
 
Some of you guys need to stop beating your heads against the wall and get it that salvation is not something that man walks in-and-out of at his own will.
 
The entire debate of conditional security versus unconditional security is a complete farce if the salvation in question is not salvation at all.

The church system today erroneously teaches that salvation is positional in application. It is viewed as a package or a provision.

In the Bible Jesus came to set man free from sin (Joh 8:36) as well as offer Himself up as a propitiation on behalf of sinners that their past sins be forgiven (Rom 3:25).

Jesus was clear that if you sin you are a servant of sin (Joh 8:34). Paul taught the same thing when he said that you are a slave to sin if you yield to it (Rom 6:16).

The church system basically teaches that you can be set free positionally but in actuality you are still in bondage. Under this theology salvation only deals with the consequences of sin and not with sin itself.

The Son of God was manifested that He might destroy the works of the devil. The works of the devil have been destroyed in a true believers life because they have been buried with Christ, crucified their flesh with Him.

It is through suffering with Christ that one is able to live with Him.

2Ti 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

No longer in bondage to the lusts of the flesh but rather living according to the will of God.

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Thus those that are truly Christ's live a crucified life not yielding to the flesh in sin.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

What the church system has done is replace all this with a form of gnosticism. Thus salvation is achieved through holding to a certain set of perceived facts apart from how one actually lives.

This was one of the errors that was infiltrating the early church even back in John's day.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

It is quite evident that John was refuting gnostic philosophy which was rooted in neoplatonism when he wrote 1st John. The Gnostics taught that the flesh was inherently evil while the soul could remain pure and this disconnected practical lived out righteousness from purity of the soul.

This philosophy is rife within the church system today due to the prolific influence of Augustine of Hippo in the 4th century and this is a topic well worth researching in order to gain some background into the prolific errors today.

Salvation is not some provision or package, salvation is a state of present existence where one is walking in the light of God with a pure heart and has been reconciled to God through the blood of Jesus Christ.

One is not clean when they are still practically filthy like the gnostics taught.

Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:




If one is walking in purity and turns back to the defilement in the world they are no longer in a saved state.

One cannot be made clean by a shower then go and jump in the mud pit and still claim to be clean.



2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 
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I think everyone should define what they think Salvation means because I see at least two definitions floating about.
 
Skinski7 said:
The entire debate of conditional security versus unconditional security is a complete farce if the salvation in question is not salvation at all.

The church system today erroneously teaches that salvation is positional in application. It is viewed as a package or a provision.
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Scripture says I HAVE BEEN SAVED by faith. Not that I might be saved if I am a good boy.

Scripture says I HAVE BEEN BORN OF GOD. Not that I might be

Scripture says I HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED, Not that I might be

Scripture states I HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. Not that I might have, or I have conditional life

Scripture says I WILL BE RAISED BY CHRIST, not that I might be, or will be delivered to him for judgment.

Scripture says I HAVE BEEN ADOPTED AS HIS SON, not that I might be

Scripture says NOTHING CAN SEPARATE ME FROM THE LOVE OF GOD, Not that I can separate myself, or anything else can

I can go on and on, but those with open eyes and hearts can see the reality of what Scripture says.

If I am saved, My Position is IN CHRIST. and I posses all these things.

However, My CONDITION will waver, I start as a babe, I grow as an adolescent and hopefully to maturity. But I will never be perfect. And some may never make it to maturity.

One day, after this life, when I am resurrected. My condition will match my position, and I will be perfectly sanctified which means I will be glorified, All based on what Christ did.

any one who has a question. Just read Gods word and see what Promises God has assured all who are his children.
 
Here is another great article on eternal security as taught in the church system today, it goes right along with Skinskis excellent article on the same.

The key is what is a real saving faith, lets all be sure we know and have it not according to man but according to God!


Eternal Security is a Myth!
By Mike DeSario


Jesus said, "He who endures to the end shall be saved!" (Mt 10:22) MANY refuse to believe it and FEW remain in the faith that 'once believed' in His Name. The false teachers have millions convinced that genuine eternal salvation can be had in a moment's time and kept without the slightest bit of effort put forth by the participant. But NOTHING could be further from the truth!

Taken on face value the Bible clearly teaches a Conditional security, showing that God's Grace Works in concert with man's Obedience resulting in a Steadfast and enduring faith that purifies the heart & has Victory over the world! (1 Pet 1 :22, 1John 5:4, Rom 2:7) All else is the 'devil's faith' (James 2:19) and works only spiritual death and ruin. Those who remain in bondage to the inward corruption of sin have NOT the faith spoken of in the Bible. They may have assurance of
sins forgiven through the doctrines of men, but reality speaks for itself. Destitute of the Spirit and Void of personal holiness, they wander in the wilderness of time drifting ever closer to the great Judgment. (Mt 7:21-23)

In the Bible the word 'Keep' means to Hold Firmly, Guard, attend to carefully and Watch. When Jesus said, "IF you love Me you will KEEP My Commandments!" He meant exactly that. You will indeed HOLD FAST to My Word, Carefully Guard and Watch so that what you have attained by FAITH will not slip away and become of no value. Thus the Gospel message proclaimed: (check Heb2:1-2)

"By this Gospel you are saved, IF you HOLD FIRMLY to the Word which I preached, unless you have believed in vain." 1Cor 15:2

The Message and the Condition in a nutshell. Rejected outright by MOST professing Christians because it interferes with their doctrine. Yet the Word stands firm. Grace through faith saves you on the CONDITION you HOLD FIRMLY to the truth. Otherwise NOTHING in Scripture makes sense!

When you are told time & time again to: Hold Fast, Keep yourself Pure, Add to your faith, Make every effort to enter by the Narrow Gate and Guard your heart, to WHAT purpose would it serve IF salvation was unconditional? Faith would indeed 'Make Void the law' under such a notion. But Clearly FAITH establishes the law (Rom 3:31) That's why obedience to God's Commands is not optional.

Addressing every argument opposed to the Conditions of Scripture is NOT the purpose of this tract. Awakening you to the perils of believing in Vain is! Remember Scripture states that the devils believe and tremble.
The ONLY difference between you and them is WHAT you DO with God's Word! You are either receiving it to the saving of the soul, or hearing and NOT doing. (James 1 :21-27)

Jesus said you MUST CONTINUE to put His Word into practice! Luke 8:21 That's the difference between those who will make it and those who won't. Dig DEEP! Luke 6:48

But that means nothing to you. You're once saved always saved, once a son always a son, nothing can separate you from God's love and no one can snatch you out of His hand! Correct? You can produce reams of explanation by the most imminent Bible scholars of our time that PROVES salvation is unconditional and NOTHING can effect its outcome once you have received it! It's not of works lest any man should boast!
But True Salvation is WORK from Start to Finish. The Work of faith with Power! 2Thess 1:11 It's the Word of God WORKING in you as you RECEIVE, OBEY and PUT it into PRACTICE! (Luke 11:28)

Eternal life will be given ONLY to those who by Patient Continuance in DOING GOOD seek for glory, honor, and immortality. Those who are self-seeking and DO NOT OBEY the truth will receive indignation and wrath." Rom 2:7-8

This has NOTHING to do with man's opinion. It is simply stated and easily understood. If you want to inherit eternal life, you will OBEY what it says. If you are looking for a loophole, you will find it in the teaching of men. Everything Christ taught about entering His Kingdom involves Diligent Obedience. The Means of Grace include ALL the elements of His teaching: Repentance, Faith, Self Denial, Obedience, Endurance and Hope. Eliminate any ONE of these from your preaching and the Gospel has lost its effectiveness to transform the hearts of men.

Jesus said to both BELIEVE & ENDURE! (John 3:16, Mt 10:22) He said both to OBEY and DENY yourself! (John 15: 14, Luke 9:23) Faith not accompanied by ALL of these is inoperative, destitute of power to save the soul! That's why Jesus said to Build on the Solid Rock of His Truth! (Mat 7:24) It requires effort to enter into life. Faith is Both Substance & Evidence. Thus it moves the soul toward Steadfast obedience to God's Word. (Heb 11:1, 6-8)
"You are to be presented to Him holy & blameless, IF you CONTINUE in the faith GROUNDED, STEADFAST and IMMOVABLE!" Col 1:22-23

Does this describe your faith? The Bible assures us that we have become PARTAKERS of Christ IF we HOLD FIRMLY the beginning of our confidence STEADFAST to the end!" Heb3:14
Diligence, Obedience and Steadfast endurance describe those who will inherit the Kingdom. NOT head knowledge, church attendance and the doctrines of men. You can trust in a cliché' or in the AUTHORITY of God's Holy Word. It's your choice. But God gives eternal life ONLY to those who OBEY Him! Heb 5:9.
The BIGGEST lie Satan ever told is that you can 'sin and not die' (Gen 3:4) Based on the assumption that God's Warnings do not mean what they say. In other words, "IF" doesn't mean "IF"!

Craftiness of the highest order, corrupting you from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ (2Cor 11:3) But millions have embraced this lie to their eternal ruination along with its evil companion that teaches NO EFFORT is required to enter into life, only faith in Christ. Ignoring the SINGLE element of FAITH that ACTIVATES Gods Saving Power... OBEDIENCE! (1John 2:3-5)

Thus we have multitudes of professing Christians with the faith of devils. Destined to burn in eternal fire unless the LIGHT of the Glory of Christ should shine on them, split the Veil blinding their mind and awaken them to a life of Steadfast obedience to God!

Christ is not a Minister of sin and Grace will not make up for your lack of obedience to the truth. Religious deception is a powerful force and a Gospel that appeals to your self-indulgence is not easily overcome by the simple Truth of Scripture. Jesus said that the Kingdom of heaven is taken by violent and forceful action! Mt 11:12, if then the Righteous are saved with great difficulty, 1Pet 4:18, and we are Commanded by Jesus to STRIVE to enter by the Narrow Gate, Luke 13:24 WHAT will the end be of those who OBEY NOT these things?

Grace through faith saves you, but you are NOT exempt from OBEDIENCE to enter into life. The warnings stand. Follow the doctrines of men who explain these things away if you wish, but KNOW beyond ALL doubt that 'eternal security' is a MYTH!

"He who ENDURES to the end shall be saved!" Mt 10:22 "Behold I come quickly, HOLD FAST what you have that NO ONE may take your crown!" Rev3: 11


Contact: Mike DeSario, [email protected]​


Mikes web site Standing the Gap​


Mikes Phone Number (330) 686-2540​
 
Tommy4Christ said:
Here is another great article on eternal security as taught in the church system today, it goes right along with Skinskis excellent article on the same.

The key is what is a real saving faith, lets all be sure we know and have it not according to man but according to God!


Eternal Security is a Myth!
By Mike DeSario


Jesus said, "He who endures to the end shall be saved!" (Mt 10:22) MANY refuse to believe it and FEW remain in the faith that 'once believed' in His Name. The false teachers have millions convinced that genuine eternal salvation can be had in a moment's time and kept without the slightest bit of effort put forth by the participant. But NOTHING could be further from the truth!

Taken on face value the Bible clearly teaches a Conditional security, showing that God's Grace Works in concert with man's Obedience resulting in a Steadfast and enduring faith that purifies the heart & has Victory over the world! (1 Pet 1 :22, 1John 5:4, Rom 2:7) All else is the 'devil's faith' (James 2:19) and works only spiritual death and ruin. Those who remain in bondage to the inward corruption of sin have NOT the faith spoken of in the Bible. They may have assurance of
sins forgiven through the doctrines of men, but reality speaks for itself. Destitute of the Spirit and Void of personal holiness, they wander in the wilderness of time drifting ever closer to the great Judgment. (Mt 7:21-23)

In the Bible the word 'Keep' means to Hold Firmly, Guard, attend to carefully and Watch. When Jesus said, "IF you love Me you will KEEP My Commandments!" He meant exactly that. You will indeed HOLD FAST to My Word, Carefully Guard and Watch so that what you have attained by FAITH will not slip away and become of no value. Thus the Gospel message proclaimed: (check Heb2:1-2)

"By this Gospel you are saved, IF you HOLD FIRMLY to the Word which I preached, unless you have believed in vain." 1Cor 15:2

The Message and the Condition in a nutshell. Rejected outright by MOST professing Christians because it interferes with their doctrine. Yet the Word stands firm. Grace through faith saves you on the CONDITION you HOLD FIRMLY to the truth. Otherwise NOTHING in Scripture makes sense!

When you are told time & time again to: Hold Fast, Keep yourself Pure, Add to your faith, Make every effort to enter by the Narrow Gate and Guard your heart, to WHAT purpose would it serve IF salvation was unconditional? Faith would indeed 'Make Void the law' under such a notion. But Clearly FAITH establishes the law (Rom 3:31) That's why obedience to God's Commands is not optional.

Addressing every argument opposed to the Conditions of Scripture is NOT the purpose of this tract. Awakening you to the perils of believing in Vain is! Remember Scripture states that the devils believe and tremble.
The ONLY difference between you and them is WHAT you DO with God's Word! You are either receiving it to the saving of the soul, or hearing and NOT doing. (James 1 :21-27)

Jesus said you MUST CONTINUE to put His Word into practice! Luke 8:21 That's the difference between those who will make it and those who won't. Dig DEEP! Luke 6:48

But that means nothing to you. You're once saved always saved, once a son always a son, nothing can separate you from God's love and no one can snatch you out of His hand! Correct? You can produce reams of explanation by the most imminent Bible scholars of our time that PROVES salvation is unconditional and NOTHING can effect its outcome once you have received it! It's not of works lest any man should boast!
But True Salvation is WORK from Start to Finish. The Work of faith with Power! 2Thess 1:11 It's the Word of God WORKING in you as you RECEIVE, OBEY and PUT it into PRACTICE! (Luke 11:28)

Eternal life will be given ONLY to those who by Patient Continuance in DOING GOOD seek for glory, honor, and immortality. Those who are self-seeking and DO NOT OBEY the truth will receive indignation and wrath." Rom 2:7-8

This has NOTHING to do with man's opinion. It is simply stated and easily understood. If you want to inherit eternal life, you will OBEY what it says. If you are looking for a loophole, you will find it in the teaching of men. Everything Christ taught about entering His Kingdom involves Diligent Obedience. The Means of Grace include ALL the elements of His teaching: Repentance, Faith, Self Denial, Obedience, Endurance and Hope. Eliminate any ONE of these from your preaching and the Gospel has lost its effectiveness to transform the hearts of men.

Jesus said to both BELIEVE & ENDURE! (John 3:16, Mt 10:22) He said both to OBEY and DENY yourself! (John 15: 14, Luke 9:23) Faith not accompanied by ALL of these is inoperative, destitute of power to save the soul! That's why Jesus said to Build on the Solid Rock of His Truth! (Mat 7:24) It requires effort to enter into life. Faith is Both Substance & Evidence. Thus it moves the soul toward Steadfast obedience to God's Word. (Heb 11:1, 6-8)
"You are to be presented to Him holy & blameless, IF you CONTINUE in the faith GROUNDED, STEADFAST and IMMOVABLE!" Col 1:22-23

Does this describe your faith? The Bible assures us that we have become PARTAKERS of Christ IF we HOLD FIRMLY the beginning of our confidence STEADFAST to the end!" Heb3:14
Diligence, Obedience and Steadfast endurance describe those who will inherit the Kingdom. NOT head knowledge, church attendance and the doctrines of men. You can trust in a cliché' or in the AUTHORITY of God's Holy Word. It's your choice. But God gives eternal life ONLY to those who OBEY Him! Heb 5:9.
The BIGGEST lie Satan ever told is that you can 'sin and not die' (Gen 3:4) Based on the assumption that God's Warnings do not mean what they say. In other words, "IF" doesn't mean "IF"!

Craftiness of the highest order, corrupting you from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ (2Cor 11:3) But millions have embraced this lie to their eternal ruination along with its evil companion that teaches NO EFFORT is required to enter into life, only faith in Christ. Ignoring the SINGLE element of FAITH that ACTIVATES Gods Saving Power... OBEDIENCE! (1John 2:3-5)

Thus we have multitudes of professing Christians with the faith of devils. Destined to burn in eternal fire unless the LIGHT of the Glory of Christ should shine on them, split the Veil blinding their mind and awaken them to a life of Steadfast obedience to God!

Christ is not a Minister of sin and Grace will not make up for your lack of obedience to the truth. Religious deception is a powerful force and a Gospel that appeals to your self-indulgence is not easily overcome by the simple Truth of Scripture. Jesus said that the Kingdom of heaven is taken by violent and forceful action! Mt 11:12, if then the Righteous are saved with great difficulty, 1Pet 4:18, and we are Commanded by Jesus to STRIVE to enter by the Narrow Gate, Luke 13:24 WHAT will the end be of those who OBEY NOT these things?

Grace through faith saves you, but you are NOT exempt from OBEDIENCE to enter into life. The warnings stand. Follow the doctrines of men who explain these things away if you wish, but KNOW beyond ALL doubt that 'eternal security' is a MYTH!

"He who ENDURES to the end shall be saved!" Mt 10:22 "Behold I come quickly, HOLD FAST what you have that NO ONE may take your crown!" Rev3: 11


Contact: Mike DeSario, [email protected]​


Mikes web site Standing the Gap​



Mikes Phone Number (330) 686-2540​
Click to expand...

You just don't know the same Christ that obtained eternal redemption for man and makes it available to sinful man by faith without any works on man's part, in the beginning or in the end. Justification for the sinner through the blood of Christ happens one time for the believing sinner and never has to be done again. The sinner believes unto righteousness only one time and it is imputed unto him by faith. The sinner is completely forgiven and cleansed one time. the moment they believe upon the Son and only one time is that same believer given eternal life and will never perish. That is the great salvation that Jesus Christ has made available to sinful man and anything short of that is a counterfeit salvation based upon the merits of man and not upon the merits of Christ. This great salvation can only come by grace through the merits of Christ and it is His righteousness that is imputed to the believing sinner the moment he believes. Those that react to this kind of salvation and this kind of greater grace have been fooled by the devil into a righteousness and a salvation that does not work.
 
Tommy4Christ said:
Here is another great article on eternal security as taught in the church system today, it goes right along with Skinskis excellent article on the same.

The key is what is a real saving faith, lets all be sure we know and have it not according to man but according to God!


Eternal Security is a Myth!
By Mike DeSario


Jesus said, "He who endures to the end shall be saved!" (Mt 10:22) MANY refuse to believe it and FEW remain in the faith that 'once believed' in His Name. The false teachers have millions convinced that genuine eternal salvation can be had in a moment's time and kept without the slightest bit of effort put forth by the participant. But NOTHING could be further from the truth!

Taken on face value the Bible clearly teaches a Conditional security, showing that God's Grace Works in concert with man's Obedience resulting in a Steadfast and enduring faith that purifies the heart & has Victory over the world! (1 Pet 1 :22, 1John 5:4, Rom 2:7) All else is the 'devil's faith' (James 2:19) and works only spiritual death and ruin. Those who remain in bondage to the inward corruption of sin have NOT the faith spoken of in the Bible. They may have assurance of
sins forgiven through the doctrines of men, but reality speaks for itself. Destitute of the Spirit and Void of personal holiness, they wander in the wilderness of time drifting ever closer to the great Judgment. (Mt 7:21-23)

In the Bible the word 'Keep' means to Hold Firmly, Guard, attend to carefully and Watch. When Jesus said, "IF you love Me you will KEEP My Commandments!" He meant exactly that. You will indeed HOLD FAST to My Word, Carefully Guard and Watch so that what you have attained by FAITH will not slip away and become of no value. Thus the Gospel message proclaimed: (check Heb2:1-2)

"By this Gospel you are saved, IF you HOLD FIRMLY to the Word which I preached, unless you have believed in vain." 1Cor 15:2

The Message and the Condition in a nutshell. Rejected outright by MOST professing Christians because it interferes with their doctrine. Yet the Word stands firm. Grace through faith saves you on the CONDITION you HOLD FIRMLY to the truth. Otherwise NOTHING in Scripture makes sense!

When you are told time & time again to: Hold Fast, Keep yourself Pure, Add to your faith, Make every effort to enter by the Narrow Gate and Guard your heart, to WHAT purpose would it serve IF salvation was unconditional? Faith would indeed 'Make Void the law' under such a notion. But Clearly FAITH establishes the law (Rom 3:31) That's why obedience to God's Commands is not optional.

Addressing every argument opposed to the Conditions of Scripture is NOT the purpose of this tract. Awakening you to the perils of believing in Vain is! Remember Scripture states that the devils believe and tremble.
The ONLY difference between you and them is WHAT you DO with God's Word! You are either receiving it to the saving of the soul, or hearing and NOT doing. (James 1 :21-27)

Jesus said you MUST CONTINUE to put His Word into practice! Luke 8:21 That's the difference between those who will make it and those who won't. Dig DEEP! Luke 6:48

But that means nothing to you. You're once saved always saved, once a son always a son, nothing can separate you from God's love and no one can snatch you out of His hand! Correct? You can produce reams of explanation by the most imminent Bible scholars of our time that PROVES salvation is unconditional and NOTHING can effect its outcome once you have received it! It's not of works lest any man should boast!
But True Salvation is WORK from Start to Finish. The Work of faith with Power! 2Thess 1:11 It's the Word of God WORKING in you as you RECEIVE, OBEY and PUT it into PRACTICE! (Luke 11:28)

Eternal life will be given ONLY to those who by Patient Continuance in DOING GOOD seek for glory, honor, and immortality. Those who are self-seeking and DO NOT OBEY the truth will receive indignation and wrath." Rom 2:7-8

This has NOTHING to do with man's opinion. It is simply stated and easily understood. If you want to inherit eternal life, you will OBEY what it says. If you are looking for a loophole, you will find it in the teaching of men. Everything Christ taught about entering His Kingdom involves Diligent Obedience. The Means of Grace include ALL the elements of His teaching: Repentance, Faith, Self Denial, Obedience, Endurance and Hope. Eliminate any ONE of these from your preaching and the Gospel has lost its effectiveness to transform the hearts of men.

Jesus said to both BELIEVE & ENDURE! (John 3:16, Mt 10:22) He said both to OBEY and DENY yourself! (John 15: 14, Luke 9:23) Faith not accompanied by ALL of these is inoperative, destitute of power to save the soul! That's why Jesus said to Build on the Solid Rock of His Truth! (Mat 7:24) It requires effort to enter into life. Faith is Both Substance & Evidence. Thus it moves the soul toward Steadfast obedience to God's Word. (Heb 11:1, 6-8)
"You are to be presented to Him holy & blameless, IF you CONTINUE in the faith GROUNDED, STEADFAST and IMMOVABLE!" Col 1:22-23

Does this describe your faith? The Bible assures us that we have become PARTAKERS of Christ IF we HOLD FIRMLY the beginning of our confidence STEADFAST to the end!" Heb3:14
Diligence, Obedience and Steadfast endurance describe those who will inherit the Kingdom. NOT head knowledge, church attendance and the doctrines of men. You can trust in a cliché' or in the AUTHORITY of God's Holy Word. It's your choice. But God gives eternal life ONLY to those who OBEY Him! Heb 5:9.
The BIGGEST lie Satan ever told is that you can 'sin and not die' (Gen 3:4) Based on the assumption that God's Warnings do not mean what they say. In other words, "IF" doesn't mean "IF"!

Craftiness of the highest order, corrupting you from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ (2Cor 11:3) But millions have embraced this lie to their eternal ruination along with its evil companion that teaches NO EFFORT is required to enter into life, only faith in Christ. Ignoring the SINGLE element of FAITH that ACTIVATES Gods Saving Power... OBEDIENCE! (1John 2:3-5)

Thus we have multitudes of professing Christians with the faith of devils. Destined to burn in eternal fire unless the LIGHT of the Glory of Christ should shine on them, split the Veil blinding their mind and awaken them to a life of Steadfast obedience to God!

Christ is not a Minister of sin and Grace will not make up for your lack of obedience to the truth. Religious deception is a powerful force and a Gospel that appeals to your self-indulgence is not easily overcome by the simple Truth of Scripture. Jesus said that the Kingdom of heaven is taken by violent and forceful action! Mt 11:12, if then the Righteous are saved with great difficulty, 1Pet 4:18, and we are Commanded by Jesus to STRIVE to enter by the Narrow Gate, Luke 13:24 WHAT will the end be of those who OBEY NOT these things?

Grace through faith saves you, but you are NOT exempt from OBEDIENCE to enter into life. The warnings stand. Follow the doctrines of men who explain these things away if you wish, but KNOW beyond ALL doubt that 'eternal security' is a MYTH!

"He who ENDURES to the end shall be saved!" Mt 10:22 "Behold I come quickly, HOLD FAST what you have that NO ONE may take your crown!" Rev3: 11


Contact: Mike DeSario, [email protected]​


Mikes web site Standing the Gap​


Mikes Phone Number (330) 686-2540​
Click to expand...
amen tommy4christ

and never mind those who would give you the license to sin, because of the gnostic duality of the spirit and the flesh... Yahweh will deal with them in His time
 
Tommy4Christ said:
Here is another great article on eternal security as taught in the church system today, it goes right along with Skinskis excellent article on the same.

The key is what is a real saving faith, lets all be sure we know and have it not according to man but according to God!


Eternal Security is a Myth!
By Mike DeSario


Jesus said, "He who endures to the end shall be saved!" (Mt 10:22) MANY refuse to believe it and FEW remain in the faith that 'once believed' in His Name. The false teachers have millions convinced that genuine eternal salvation can be had in a moment's time and kept without the slightest bit of effort put forth by the participant. But NOTHING could be further from the truth!

Taken on face value the Bible clearly teaches a Conditional security, showing that God's Grace Works in concert with man's Obedience resulting in a Steadfast and enduring faith that purifies the heart & has Victory over the world! (1 Pet 1 :22, 1John 5:4, Rom 2:7) All else is the 'devil's faith' (James 2:19) and works only spiritual death and ruin. Those who remain in bondage to the inward corruption of sin have NOT the faith spoken of in the Bible. They may have assurance of
sins forgiven through the doctrines of men, but reality speaks for itself. Destitute of the Spirit and Void of personal holiness, they wander in the wilderness of time drifting ever closer to the great Judgment. (Mt 7:21-23)

In the Bible the word 'Keep' means to Hold Firmly, Guard, attend to carefully and Watch. When Jesus said, "IF you love Me you will KEEP My Commandments!" He meant exactly that. You will indeed HOLD FAST to My Word, Carefully Guard and Watch so that what you have attained by FAITH will not slip away and become of no value. Thus the Gospel message proclaimed: (check Heb2:1-2)

"By this Gospel you are saved, IF you HOLD FIRMLY to the Word which I preached, unless you have believed in vain." 1Cor 15:2

The Message and the Condition in a nutshell. Rejected outright by MOST professing Christians because it interferes with their doctrine. Yet the Word stands firm. Grace through faith saves you on the CONDITION you HOLD FIRMLY to the truth. Otherwise NOTHING in Scripture makes sense!

When you are told time & time again to: Hold Fast, Keep yourself Pure, Add to your faith, Make every effort to enter by the Narrow Gate and Guard your heart, to WHAT purpose would it serve IF salvation was unconditional? Faith would indeed 'Make Void the law' under such a notion. But Clearly FAITH establishes the law (Rom 3:31) That's why obedience to God's Commands is not optional.

Addressing every argument opposed to the Conditions of Scripture is NOT the purpose of this tract. Awakening you to the perils of believing in Vain is! Remember Scripture states that the devils believe and tremble.
The ONLY difference between you and them is WHAT you DO with God's Word! You are either receiving it to the saving of the soul, or hearing and NOT doing. (James 1 :21-27)

Jesus said you MUST CONTINUE to put His Word into practice! Luke 8:21 That's the difference between those who will make it and those who won't. Dig DEEP! Luke 6:48

But that means nothing to you. You're once saved always saved, once a son always a son, nothing can separate you from God's love and no one can snatch you out of His hand! Correct? You can produce reams of explanation by the most imminent Bible scholars of our time that PROVES salvation is unconditional and NOTHING can effect its outcome once you have received it! It's not of works lest any man should boast!
But True Salvation is WORK from Start to Finish. The Work of faith with Power! 2Thess 1:11 It's the Word of God WORKING in you as you RECEIVE, OBEY and PUT it into PRACTICE! (Luke 11:28)

Eternal life will be given ONLY to those who by Patient Continuance in DOING GOOD seek for glory, honor, and immortality. Those who are self-seeking and DO NOT OBEY the truth will receive indignation and wrath." Rom 2:7-8

This has NOTHING to do with man's opinion. It is simply stated and easily understood. If you want to inherit eternal life, you will OBEY what it says. If you are looking for a loophole, you will find it in the teaching of men. Everything Christ taught about entering His Kingdom involves Diligent Obedience. The Means of Grace include ALL the elements of His teaching: Repentance, Faith, Self Denial, Obedience, Endurance and Hope. Eliminate any ONE of these from your preaching and the Gospel has lost its effectiveness to transform the hearts of men.

Jesus said to both BELIEVE & ENDURE! (John 3:16, Mt 10:22) He said both to OBEY and DENY yourself! (John 15: 14, Luke 9:23) Faith not accompanied by ALL of these is inoperative, destitute of power to save the soul! That's why Jesus said to Build on the Solid Rock of His Truth! (Mat 7:24) It requires effort to enter into life. Faith is Both Substance & Evidence. Thus it moves the soul toward Steadfast obedience to God's Word. (Heb 11:1, 6-8)
"You are to be presented to Him holy & blameless, IF you CONTINUE in the faith GROUNDED, STEADFAST and IMMOVABLE!" Col 1:22-23

Does this describe your faith? The Bible assures us that we have become PARTAKERS of Christ IF we HOLD FIRMLY the beginning of our confidence STEADFAST to the end!" Heb3:14
Diligence, Obedience and Steadfast endurance describe those who will inherit the Kingdom. NOT head knowledge, church attendance and the doctrines of men. You can trust in a cliché' or in the AUTHORITY of God's Holy Word. It's your choice. But God gives eternal life ONLY to those who OBEY Him! Heb 5:9.
The BIGGEST lie Satan ever told is that you can 'sin and not die' (Gen 3:4) Based on the assumption that God's Warnings do not mean what they say. In other words, "IF" doesn't mean "IF"!

Craftiness of the highest order, corrupting you from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ (2Cor 11:3) But millions have embraced this lie to their eternal ruination along with its evil companion that teaches NO EFFORT is required to enter into life, only faith in Christ. Ignoring the SINGLE element of FAITH that ACTIVATES Gods Saving Power... OBEDIENCE! (1John 2:3-5)

Thus we have multitudes of professing Christians with the faith of devils. Destined to burn in eternal fire unless the LIGHT of the Glory of Christ should shine on them, split the Veil blinding their mind and awaken them to a life of Steadfast obedience to God!

Christ is not a Minister of sin and Grace will not make up for your lack of obedience to the truth. Religious deception is a powerful force and a Gospel that appeals to your self-indulgence is not easily overcome by the simple Truth of Scripture. Jesus said that the Kingdom of heaven is taken by violent and forceful action! Mt 11:12, if then the Righteous are saved with great difficulty, 1Pet 4:18, and we are Commanded by Jesus to STRIVE to enter by the Narrow Gate, Luke 13:24 WHAT will the end be of those who OBEY NOT these things?

Grace through faith saves you, but you are NOT exempt from OBEDIENCE to enter into life. The warnings stand. Follow the doctrines of men who explain these things away if you wish, but KNOW beyond ALL doubt that 'eternal security' is a MYTH!

"He who ENDURES to the end shall be saved!" Mt 10:22 "Behold I come quickly, HOLD FAST what you have that NO ONE may take your crown!" Rev3: 11


Contact: Mike DeSario, [email protected]


Mikes web site Standing the Gap


Mikes Phone Number (330) 686-2540​
Click to expand...


We can listen to men. Or we can listen to Gods word.

I repeat.
'
Scripture says I HAVE BEEN SAVED by faith. Not that I might be saved if I am a good boy.

Scripture says I HAVE BEEN BORN OF GOD. Not that I might be

Scripture says I HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED, Not that I might be

Scripture states I HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. Not that I might have, or I have conditional life

Scripture says I WILL BE RAISED BY CHRIST, not that I might be, or will be delivered to him for judgment.

Scripture says I HAVE BEEN ADOPTED AS HIS SON, not that I might be

Scripture says NOTHING CAN SEPARATE ME FROM THE LOVE OF GOD, Not that I can separate myself, or anything else can

I can go on and on, but those with open eyes and hearts can see the reality of what Scripture says.

If I am saved, My Position is IN CHRIST. and I posses all these things.

However, My CONDITION will waver, I start as a babe, I grow as an adolescent and hopefully to maturity. But I will never be perfect. And some may never make it to maturity.

One day, after this life, when I am resurrected. My condition will match my position, and I will be perfectly sanctified which means I will be glorified, All based on what Christ did.

any one who has a question. Just read Gods word and see what Promises God has assured all who are his children.



Why people want to take credit for the work of God. and replace his work wiht out own work is beyond me. Oh wait I know. It is called rebellion against God and following Satan. it has been Satan;s lie since the begining. As usual. Men do not learn the mistakes of the past.
 
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