Can someone lose their salvation?

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whoa? what's OSAS?

OSAS is eternal life, or eternal security in Christ, or once saved always saved. it means a person who is made alive in Christ can't die spiritually again, But he has possession of the gift of God, Eternal life.


There are two camps,

The licentious camp teaches we can say a few words (ie sinners prayer) be saved, and live however we want, we do not have to change.


The true faith camp teaches we are saved by Faith in the finished work of Christ, And this faith in his works saves us and gives us eternal life. And through our repentance, and gratefull attitude for what God did, Through the HS who has sealed us, We will see a changed life, do the work God created us to do, However, we will not be sinnless, we just understand, even though we do not want to sin, we will fail, but God will not kick us out of his family. like the legalistic group wants us to think he will.

If you do not believe eternal life is eternal, but can be lost, you do not believe in OSAS, you believe in a works based Gospel where eternal life is earned, by whatever it is they say you must do to KEEP salvation and not lose it.
 
eternally-greatful


YOU SAID: The gift can not fade because the gift is eternal. That is why God calls it eternal life. If this life in christ is not eternal. God is a liar. and he has denied his own word. thus denied himself.



You are correct, the gift is eternal life, but whether or not the gift is eternal depends on you. It's not how you start the race, it's how you finish.

two thoughts. Does eternal mean forever, everlasting, never ending, or does it not? If it does, then explain what eternal life is, It is eternal is it not? meaning never ending.

2. It is how we finish? Did not paul refute this thought?

Are we so foolish having begun in the spirit (in faith) are we trying to perfect it with works (end it) My belief is we entered it totally underserving and without hope apart from grace, and we will end it that way, It is ALL based on the work of Christ, I could never be worthy enough to earn it, Even if I lived the rest of my life and did not commit one more sin, I would still be unworthy


The pharisees thought they were worthy, Why should I think I could ever be worthy and be like them?


I believe that our answers to how God feels about certain things is not only discovered in the Word that He declares to us, but it is also found in His tendencies. If you recall, the Lord's promise to Abraham and His seed was that they were to inherit the promised land for an eternity. So the promise was eternal possession of the land, but the gifts eternal status was dependant on the actions of the people and their leaders. As you know because of unrepented sin, unbelief and disobediance, the Lord drove them out of the land that they were supposed to possess for an eternity. He will do the same to us if we demonstrate simular disobediant behavior. This is clearly what Paul is warning us of in
Romans 11.
Revelation 3:5 clearly states the the Lord will blot out names from the Lambs Book of Life. This really answers the question asked by this thread. This scripture speaks strongly for itself, and needs no interpretation or elaboration from no one.

Ownership and possetion is not the same.

God did promise the land to them, But he gave rules they must follow to posses it.

The promise was unconditionial. When God said I WILL, he means it, if he does not do it, he lied

The law was the condition. if you read lev 26, they are told exactly what will happen if they do not follow Gods commands. up to and including total removal from the land, Being cast to all the earth, in the hands of the gentiles. And their land destroyed, This was fulfilled in 70 AD. Lev 26 also states, as does many OT prophesies, that if they repent, and return to God after admiting their mistakes. God will restor them to that land, Bring them back from the hand of the gentiles. remove the gentiles from the land promised to isreal, and he will be there god.

Romans 11 speaks to this fact. The gentiles will fall away and be cut off. All Isreal will be saved, and restored to the land SHE OWNS.

They may not posses the land they own. But it is still theres/ Gods promise was an I will promise. Not an if you do this I will do that promise. The covenant of land was unconditional, Unlike the law. which is conditional.
 
i will leave those people who hold to OSAS with this:

Romans 11:19-24
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?.

Romans 11:28-31
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Ezekiel 18:21-32
21 “But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live.
23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?

24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.

25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair?
26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies.
27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive.
28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
29 Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?

30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?
32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”

Ezekiel 36:24-38
24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
29I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
31Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
32Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
33Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
34And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.
35And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.
36Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.
37Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.
38As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

2 Timothy 2:11-13
11 This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.

OSAS/Perseverance of the Saints is Gnosticism. nothing more.

2 Timothy 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

Don't be weak in the works of your flesh and carnal mind.

Be Strong in the Grace that is in Christ Jesus. This strength doesn't run out and you don't accidently lose it. This strength is with you even when you don't feel it.

If you tell christians that they can lose their salvation and/or their faith you are telling them to be careful of their works lest they anger God. This is a misunderstanding of how God gives to us. God doesn't give like men give. Gods ways are above our ways. God doesn't put conditions on His gifts to us. He already knows what we are going to do with them!!

Philippians 4:6-7

6Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
7And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
 
eternally-greatful


YOU SAID: two thoughts. Does eternal mean forever, everlasting, never ending, or does it not? If it does, then explain what eternal life is, It is eternal is it not? meaning never ending.



 
eternally-greatful


YOU SAID: two thoughts. Does eternal mean forever, everlasting, never ending, or does it not? If it does, then explain what eternal life is, It is eternal is it not? meaning never ending.


Sorry about my empty post.

Just because eternal life is the gift that is offered, and yes eternal does mean eternal, there is no disagreement there. That revelation alone does not gurantee that someone who has professed Christ on Monday, is not going to deny Him on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, then go to church on Sunday, and then do Satan's bidding Saturday through Friday of the following week.

Believing that salvation is gaurnteed to all believers inspite of where their heart truly is contradicts scripture.....Although since you believe that some were never truly in the faith to begin with even though they confessed Christ makes me believe that you are not really OSAS completely.
 
eternally-greatful


YOU SAID: two thoughts. Does eternal mean forever, everlasting, never ending, or does it not? If it does, then explain what eternal life is, It is eternal is it not? meaning never ending.


Sorry about my empty post.

Just because eternal life is the gift that is offered, and yes eternal does mean eternal, there is no disagreement there. That revelation alone does not gurantee that someone who has professed Christ on Monday, is not going to deny Him on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, then go to church on Sunday, and then do Satan's bidding Saturday through Friday of the following week.

Believing that salvation is gaurnteed to all believers inspite of where their heart truly is contradicts scripture.....Although since you believe that some were never truly in the faith to begin with even though they confessed Christ makes me believe that you are not really OSAS completely.


There's no such thing as cheap Salvation. You're either all in or you're double minded. The Lord knows the Heart and He knows if you're all in or not.

When you are all in the Lord does miraculous things in your life. They may not seem miraculous to people viewing from the outside but you know what you had previously struggled with your whole life and you know how the Lord took all that away when you trusted fully in Him. Then, in place of those struggles, He gives you Joy, Peace, Love...

If a person is just pretending, or trying to look good in front of people by the appearance of being holy, then they are not all in. They are double minded.

A person who is all in is walking in the Light. When you walk in the light you notice things about yourself that you didn't previously notice. You face up to the truth about yourself and you ask the Lord to change you little by little into the image that is Christ.

Someone who is all in doesn't point out everyone else's shortcomings. We know that we all have them. There is no point in dwelling on it. What we must dwell on is what changes us. That is our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
 
eternally-greatful


YOU SAID: two thoughts. Does eternal mean forever, everlasting, never ending, or does it not? If it does, then explain what eternal life is, It is eternal is it not? meaning never ending.


Sorry about my empty post.

Just because eternal life is the gift that is offered, and yes eternal does mean eternal, there is no disagreement there. That revelation alone does not gurantee that someone who has professed Christ on Monday, is not going to deny Him on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, then go to church on Sunday, and then do Satan's bidding Saturday through Friday of the following week.

Believing that salvation is gaurnteed to all believers inspite of where their heart truly is contradicts scripture.....Although since you believe that some were never truly in the faith to begin with even though they confessed Christ makes me believe that you are not really OSAS completely.
one eternal doesn't mean eternal as man thinks it does in the greek it means age or ages long. and age is like the time you get up till the time you go to bed. From when you where born till the till you go home. from moses to christ etc.
 
eternal-greatful


YOU SAID: 2. It is how we finish? Did not paul refute this thought?


I agree with you that we would be foolish to take credit for the salvation that the Lord purchased for us with His own blood, but we will be equally foolish not to take abvantage of the encouragement from the Word of God and finish the race strong like the concquerors that we are...possessing our prize...

1 CORINTHIANS 9:24-27

24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

HEBRREWS 12:1
12 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2TIMOTHY 4:7-8
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
 
ENOCHSON


YOU SAID: one eternal doesn't mean eternal as man thinks it does in the greek it means age or ages long. and age is like the time you get up till the time you go to bed. From when you where born till the till you go home. from moses to christ etc.


Thank You for that information..it is very much appreciated.


Grandpa!


I can always count on some very good wisdom from you my dear brother in the Lord. I miss you, thanks for what you posted. Like always I enjoyed it and will meditate on it.
 
eternally-greatful


YOU SAID: two thoughts. Does eternal mean forever, everlasting, never ending, or does it not? If it does, then explain what eternal life is, It is eternal is it not? meaning never ending.


Sorry about my empty post.

Just because eternal life is the gift that is offered, and yes eternal does mean eternal, there is no disagreement there. That revelation alone does not gurantee that someone who has professed Christ on Monday, is not going to deny Him on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, then go to church on Sunday, and then do Satan's bidding Saturday through Friday of the following week.

Believing that salvation is gaurnteed to all believers inspite of where their heart truly is contradicts scripture.....Although since you believe that some were never truly in the faith to begin with even though they confessed Christ makes me believe that you are not really OSAS completely.

peter denied Christ how many times? How many times did Christ punish peter, or demand his repentance? How did Christ help Peter understand God forgave him and he did not have to ask.

Peter denied Christ once. Jesus asked him, Do you love me?
Peter denied Twice, God asked, do you love me
Peter denied Christ a third time, Jesus asked peter, Do you love me.

This is how God is. When we sin, He strengthens us by by his forgiveness which is unconditional. This is why we can come to him as Abba Father, and not as a fearful slave master.

People who believe one can lose salvation has to look at God in fear. Because they can never know if they commit the sin, or to many sins, for God to say enough, I am removing my gift. Paul tells us, As Christ showed peter. We have not been given a spirit of fear. But a loving Father.

Many people claim salvation, it does not mean they ever had it. I am OSAS 100 %, why?

Eph 1: 13 - 14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

whoever has the HS, after being born again, has been sealed by God himself. this seal can not be broken by anyone, not even ourself. and it is the guarantee of our gift of eternal life until the day of redemption. Nothing can break this seal, if we could break it, we are more powerfull than God.

Think of the Ark. God sealed noah in, Noah was not going to break out, why do you think we could or would.
 
one eternal doesn't mean eternal as man thinks it does in the greek it means age or ages long. and age is like the time you get up till the time you go to bed. From when you where born till the till you go home. from moses to christ etc.

John 3: 16, for God so loved the world he gave his only son that whoever believes in him will never perish.

eternal life, never perish, I think it is obious what eternal means. but just in case.

αἰώνιος, -ον, and (in 2 Th. 2:16; Heb. 9:12; Num. 25:13; Plat. Tim. p. 38 b. [see below]; Diod. i. 1; [cf. WH. App. p. 157; W. 69 (67); B. 26 (23)]) -ος, -α, -ον, (αἰών);
1. without beginning or end, that which always has been and always will be: θεός, Ro. 16:26, (ὁ μόνος αἰώνιος, 2 Macc. 1:25); πνεῦμα, Heb. 9:14.
2. without beginning: χρόνοις αἰωνίοις, Ro. 16:25; πρὸ χρό νων αἰωνίων, 2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:2; εὐαγγέλιον a gospel whose subject-matter is eternal, i. e. the saving purpose of God adopted from eternity, Rev. 14:6.
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting:


Thayer, J. H. (1889). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm's Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (20). New York: Harper & Brothers.

ἀπ-όλλυμι and ἀπολλύω ([ἀπολλύει Jn. 12:25 T Tr WH], impv. ἀπόλλυε Ro. 14:15, [cf. B. 45 (39); WH. App. p. 168 sq.]); fut. ἀπολέσω and (1 Co. 1:19 ἀπολῶ fr. a pass. in the O. T., where often) ἀπολῶ (cf. W. 83 (80); [B. 64 (56)]); 1 aor. ἀπώλεσα; to destroy; Mid., pres. ἀπόλλυμαι; [impf. 3 pers. plur. ἀπώλλυντο 1 Co. 10:9 T Tr WH]; fut. ἀπολοῦμαι; 2 aor. ἀπωλόμην; (2 pf. act. ptcp. ἀπολωλώς); [fr. Hom. down]; to perish.
1. to destroy i. e. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to, ruin: Mk. 1:24; Lk. 4:34; 17:27, 29; Jude 5; τὴν σοφίαν render useless, cause its emptiness to be perceived, 1 Co. 1:19 (fr. Sept. of Is. 29:14); to kill: Mt. 2:13; 12:14; Mk. 9:22; 11:18; Jn. 10:10, etc.; contextually, to declare that one must be put to death: Mt. 27:20; metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery: Mt. 10:28; Jas. 4:12; contextually, by one’s conduct to cause another to lose eternal salvation: Ro. 14:15. Mid. to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed;


Thayer, J. H. (1889). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm's Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (64). New York: Harper & Brothers.

so tell me. If we shall not perish, but have eternal life. are they not synonymous with eternal meaning never ending?

john 6 helps also.


35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”


people can fight it all they want. they can make excuses as to how eternal might not mean eternal. but when God says they will never perish, he will never cast them out, and he will raise then (not have them delivered to him as in the great white judgment) he means it.
 
eternal-greatful


YOU SAID: 2. It is how we finish? Did not paul refute this thought?


I agree with you that we would be foolish to take credit for the salvation that the Lord purchased for us with His own blood, but we will be equally foolish not to take abvantage of the encouragement from the Word of God and finish the race strong like the concquerors that we are...possessing our prize...

1 CORINTHIANS 9:24-27

24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

HEBRREWS 12:1
12 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2TIMOTHY 4:7-8
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Salvation is by grace. It can not be earned. Scripture makes this clear. A non believer is dead, they will recieve no reward but one, Being delivered to Christ on at the great white judgment, where they will recieve their reward they (we all ) have earned, eternal death.

A christian on the other hand, works for rewards. we are told by paul we will be judged (a bema seat judgment only given to those in Christ) by our works, and will recieve reward. Gold silver precious stone, wood hey and straw. If our work endures we will be rewarded, if not we will suffer loss. But even though we will be saved, even though through the fire. In other words, there will be people in heaven who have received absolutely no qualification for any reward. and still be saved. Scripture also tells us we may receive special crowns for things done, one of the crowns you mentioned.

This is what Paul was talking about. not losing salvation, but losing out on being rewarded.
 
eternally-grateful



YOU SAID: People who believe one can lose salvation has to look at God in fear. Because they can never know if they commit the sin, or to many sins, for God to say enough, I am removing my gift.


This may be true of those who are ignorant of the Word of God, but not for us who are mature and skilled.

MATTHEW 18:21-22
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


We don't live in fear as you suppose. We know that our God is faithful to forgive us of our sins as long as we bring them before Him and repent. We do understand that if we backslide from the Lord and deny Him before men He will deny us before His Father. We understand that if we willfully give ourselves to sin to obey it's every whim, then we are slaves to that sin...and we understand that you can't be a Slave and be a Son at the same time, we understand the FACT that if you are a Slave, you will not abide in the Lords house forever.

JOHN 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

This is why we follow Paul's advice and example, of beating our flesh into submission to the Word of God on a daily basis, and taking all of our imperfections before Him daily and denouncing the continuation of such behaviors with the help of the Holy Ghost.

36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.


 
eternally-grateful



YOU SAID: People who believe one can lose salvation has to look at God in fear. Because they can never know if they commit the sin, or to many sins, for God to say enough, I am removing my gift.


This may be true of those who are ignorant of the Word of God, but not for us who are mature and skilled.

MATTHEW 18:21-22
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


We don't live in fear as you suppose. We know that our God is faithful to forgive us of our sins as long as we bring them before Him and repent. We do understand that if we backslide from the Lord and deny Him before men He will deny us before His Father. We understand that if we willfully give ourselves to sin to obey it's every whim, then we are slaves to that sin...and we understand that you can't be a Slave and be a Son at the same time, we understand the FACT that if you are a Slave, you will not abide in the Lords house forever.

JOHN 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

This is why we follow Paul's advice and example, of beating our flesh into submission to the Word of God on a daily basis, and taking all of our imperfections before Him daily and denouncing the continuation of such behaviors with the help of the Holy Ghost.

36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.



My friend.

1. You can not possibly know every sin you commit to be able to repent (actually confess) that sin.
2. You probably do not understand how many times a day you and I sin, and thus can not see the depravity of your own soul, let alone anyone elses
3. If we are saved by being good, and obeying commands, we are saved by Law. Paul, Jesus and all the apostles taught against this. Why would you be for it, when Gods origional church was against it, and were killed, mocked and slandered for teaching the very thing you believe
4. We have been over the denying Christ thing many times. If we deny Christ we are against him, being against him is being an anti christ.



1 John 2: 18 - 24
18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

1. Us = the church
2. They departed from the church
3. They went out to prove what? THEY NEVER WERE REALLY OF US they NEVER HAD SALVATION)
4. Their departure proves they never had faith, and prove they were false children on not of the true church

5. If they were truly of us, they would not have left. meaning? A true child of God will never depart the faith and deny Christ.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

1. Unlike then, you have annointing from the holy one (you have the seal of the HS in you!
2. Those who deny Christ are liars, and antichrist's, they do not have the father (they never did)
3. The one who confesses Christ has the father (see Romans, for with the heart one believes to righteousness, and confession is made to eternal life)
4. Then again he gives a stern warning. make sure your not one of them, who truely does not have God in your heart, And let what abides in you (the message of the gospel) remain pure, For if you depart like they do, you to will prove you have never had the son, thus have never had the father.

My friend, it gets no simpler than this. One who deny's Christ HAS NEVER BEEN SAVED!
One who is truly saved, WILL NEVER DEPART FROM THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.


The prodigal son never denied the father. He went into the world. But remember, The prodigal son never stopped being the son, He was still a son, He just left the protection and blessings of his father while he lived on this earth. he will either return, or die before he returns for whatever reason. But he is still as son.
 
eternally-greatful



YOU SAID: Salvation is by grace. It can not be earned. Scripture makes this clear.


And you won't get an argument on that fact from me and nobody else who finds that OSAS is a false doctrine.

No matter how much I discipline my body to be subject to the will of my God, no matter how much I choose the good over the evil through the power of the Holy Spirit, no matter how many lives I touch with my good works, Salvation is given to me by God's Grace.....but I also understand that it's impossible to please my God without FAITH...and I do understand that FAITH without works is dead.

Jesus did not die for us to be weak jelly back Christians who are powerless against Satan and are slaves to sin. His death and resurrection empowered us (If we would just believe) to be OVERCOMERS, and CONQUERORS, and we should be able to look sin in the face and say NO! and mean it. After all...He made us RIGHTEOUS when we believed....so we can't use the excuse that we didn't have it in us, because He knows better.
 
eternally-greatful



YOU SAID: Salvation is by grace. It can not be earned. Scripture makes this clear.


And you won't get an argument on that fact from me and nobody else who finds that OSAS is a false doctrine.

No matter how much I discipline my body to be subject to the will of my God, no matter how much I choose the good over the evil through the power of the Holy Spirit, no matter how many lives I touch with my good works, Salvation is given to me by God's Grace.....but I also understand that it's impossible to please my God without FAITH...and I do understand that FAITH without works is dead.

Jesus did not die for us to be weak jelly back Christians who are powerless against Satan and are slaves to sin. His death and resurrection empowered us (If we would just believe) to be OVERCOMERS, and CONQUERORS, and we should be able to look sin in the face and say NO! and mean it. After all...He made us RIGHTEOUS when we believed....so we can't use the excuse that we didn't have it in us, because He knows better.

That is the problem with those who do not believe in OSAS my friend.

1. You are right, a licentious gospel is not from God, He will reject there faith as being no faith at all. Ther are not saved, and have never been saved, so have no salvation to lose.

2. Your right faith and eternal life is a gift. which means it can NEVER BE EARNED, yet you are trying to earn it, even if you deny you are doing this
3. As for James, james said faith without works is dead. I want you to think about what this means.

Without works. how many works is this? Zero? 100. 1000. 100000?? How many works does james make clear shows a man has no faith, thus is not saved. For you see the whole legalistic doctrine that this proves me must work for eternal life depends on how many works James means is the cut off between no faith and real faith.


Which again I make my point, you can never know if you have done enough good (works) , or not done enough wrong to be saved. You must live in fear. I know. I have been there my friend.
 
eternally-grateful


YOU SAID: 1. You can not possibly know every sin you commit to be able to repent (actually confess) that sin.

Maybe not but God does...And He appreciates the fact that I would ask His forgiveness and help to stop committing the sins that I'm not aware of. And one should not use the above excuse not to go before the Lord to confess ones sins and to promise to avoid them in the future.

This is what we call the Christian walk. Growing in the Lord and becoming more Christ like, allowing Christs mind to be in us. This takes time and patience and it's not without stumbles along the way...but it's a progression towards perfection....the God kind of perfection..not man's idea of perfection.
 
Hey Selena! You still reading this thread? love you girl :)

current song I'm listening to: thought I'd share :)

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q4KqWviphE[/video]
 
Hey Selena! You still reading this thread? love you girl :)

current song I'm listening to: thought I'd share :)

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q4KqWviphE[/video]

Thanks
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eternally-grateful


YOU SAID: 1. You can not possibly know every sin you commit to be able to repent (actually confess) that sin.

Maybe not but God does...And He appreciates the fact that I would ask His forgiveness and help to stop committing the sins that I'm not aware of. And one should not use the above excuse not to go before the Lord to confess ones sins and to promise to avoid them in the future.

See this is where you do not understand what I believe. I would never do such a thing. I not only go to him, I confess (state) my sin, But instead of begging for forgiveness, I thank him for forgiving me (having mercy on me) and not snapping his finger and sending me to oblivion (which I so rightly deserve) and giving me another chance to not only grow in him, but learn from my mistake and next time, hopefully be able to fight the temptation. I come to him as a son, not as a slave going and begging forgiveness from their master. There is a huge difference here. If you do not believe in OASA, you go to him as a slave trying to earn his love, If you go to him as a son, You know you have it.

You see, this is where we differ. If I sin against my earthly father. I might go to him in fear of chastisement, Knowing it is going to hurt like you know what, But I never have to go to him in fear of losing my sonship. I also know, unlike my earthly father, I can not hide my sin, And he is going to chastice me anyway so why try to hide it. Grow and move on. This is what Paul meant when he said we have not been given a spirit again to fear. But of adoption, whereby we call him Abba Father. He is my dad now. I have been adopted into his family
. If I mess up (and I will) I can come to him as a child goes to their father. why? because he is my dad, His chastening will hurt. But he will still love me! And I will still be his son. This is the true love of God.

This is what we call the Christian walk. Growing in the Lord and becoming more Christ like, allowing Christs mind to be in us. This takes time and patience and it's not without stumbles along the way...but it's a progression towards perfection....the God kind of perfection..not man's idea of perfection.
I agree here. But what this is not is a means to gain eternal life. If you do not have eternal life, have not been born of God and adopted as his son, You can do this till your blue in the face from now until the day you die, and you will still be an illegitimate son, and denied by Christ to the father.

Again, this is where we disagree. If you do not teach OSAS (not the licentious form) you are doing these things to earn salvation. When you should place your faith in Christ, where he will teach you to do these things and he gets the credit for them (thus we can not boast in ourselves) and be your loving father.
 
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