Well, let me just ask a few questions:
(1) What does mean in Eph. 1: 4,5 ? "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will."
What does this teach about predestination?
(2) What does John 10:27-29 mean? "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one.""
Hi, Chester -
Thank you for replying. I appreciate your inquisitive approach.
Concerning Your First Category of Questions
According to
Literary Education Online, repetition is used to identify the main idea in a portion of text, and Ephesians 1:1-2:22 contains a phrase and an idea that is repeated in emphatic fashion. That phrase and idea is “in Christ”. In chapter 1, the idea is repeated 9 times over 23 verses, which is about once every three verses. In chapter 2, the idea is repeated 6 times over 22 verses, which is about once every four verses. When you combine chapters 1 and 2, the total repetition is precisely once every three verses over a span of two chapters! So, the point of these chapters is to elaborate on the importance of us being in Christ so that we can enjoy the benefits to be had - one of which is predestination.
So, concerning your question, “What does this teach about predestination?”:
- It teaches us that predestination is one of the benefits to be had as a consequence of us being in Christ
Concerning your other question, “What does Ephesians 1:4,5 mean?”, well let me share with you what I think it means one step at a time. These verses together have the following statements:
- He chose us in Him
- before the foundation of the world
Looking at “He chose us in him”, we need to be careful here because we don’t talk like this in American English (AE). In AE we don’t say, “She poked us in her”; it’s completely nonsensical. However, in AE we do say things like, “She poked us” and “He chose us”, and each of these phrases makes sense. So, it’s the “in Him” part that obscures the meaning of the phrase in question, and we need to use Scripture as a basis for how we interpret the message conveyed by the phrase.
These excerpts from Jesus are the basis upon which I have concluded what “in Him” means:
- Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples (John 15:4-8).
- As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love (John 15:9-10).
- Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock … (Matt 7:24)
- But why do you call Me “Lord, Lord,” and not do the things which I say? (John 4:46)
Based on the bulleted excerpts above, I have concluded that “in Him” means:
- As a consequence of our faith in Him, we have memorized Jesus’ teachings, and we live by them.
To help validate this interpretation, let us suppose the following:
- I trust Jesus
- I have memorized everything Jesus said to do
- I do not live by those things Jesus said to do, instead I live by other precepts
Under the conditions bulleted above, am I in Christ? The answer is a resounding “no”, due to Matthew 7:21-23 in which Jesus states the following:
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Okay, so now that we have a firm grasp of what “in Him” means: as a consequence of our faith in Him, we have memorized Jesus’ teachings, and we live by them. Let’s review the second phrase:
- before the foundation of the world
Looking at the above bulleted phrase, we have to be careful here, again, because we don’t talk like this in AE. In AE we don’t say things like “I parked my car before the foundation of the house”. We might talk about doing something like “inspecting the foundation of a building”, or “spraying paint or weed killer around the foundation of a building”. But, I don’t know of any phrases used in AE where the phrase, “before the foundation of the BLANK”, is used. Fortunately, there is a convincing and compelling argument for how to interpret this phrase found
here in this article.
The author of the article uses Scripture to interpret Scripture, which is always the best hermeneutic. The bottom line is that the second phrase in question means the following:
- since the world began
- from ancient times
- from the beginning
The author’s approach was to recognize that the phrase “before the foundation of the world” was also found in Matthew 13:35, which cites Psalm 78:2 that translates the phrase as “from ancient times”. Then the author compared Psalm 78:2 with the Septuagint version and found that the same phrase is translated as “from the beginning”. So, the conclusion is that the phrase “from the foundation of the world” is an idiom and can mean “since the world began”, not “before the world was made” as is sometimes argued. The author’s argument is succinct, convincing, compelling, and brilliant all at the same time.
Now, to answer your question about what the phrase “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world” means. Let me first declare that the phrase does not mean:
- He chose us before/since the the world began
- He chose us to be in Him before/since the world began
Next, I’d like to offer analogous statements to help us better understand the meaning conveyed by the phrase in question:
- I smelled the chocolate in the red bag since the doors of the candy store were open
- I chose the toys in the green bag since the advertisement was broadcast on television
- The lady shot us in the cage since the lights came on
Notice the effects the phrases “in the red bag”, “in the green bag”, and “in the cage” have on the action taken by the subject. The effect:
- defines a narrow scope upon which the action is applied
- requires that items be in the limited scope prior to being affected by the subject’s action
Finally, based on the matter covered so far, let me give you what I think the phrase “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world” means:
- Since the beginning of the world, God chose us who faithfully follow Christ, so that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love …
Concerning Your Next Question Regarding John 10:27-29
Okay … so, in this portion of Scripture we read about Jesus responding to some Jews who are asking to be told plainly if He is the Christ. You know from my original post (OP) that these Jews are the very same ones Jesus, Paul, and John identified as being under a curse, and these are the very same Jews that needed to be elected by God. Otherwise, they just weren’t going to see that He is the Christ. Notice what Jesus tells them:
The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
Okay … so, they weren’t Jesus’ sheep. How would they have become His sheep? The answer is in verse 29:
My Father, who has given them [the sheep] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.
Our Father must first give them to Jesus. In this particular case, our Father did not choose (i.e., did not elect) to give these same Jews to Jesus. I know that Christians today believe that this text applies to them. But, there is nothing in the text that indicates this. In fact, Jesus’ pre-crucifixion ministry was to the Jew only, but for the benefit of both Jew and Gentile.
So, to answer the question directly:
- John 10:27-29 means that Jesus had sheep that were given to Him by our Father for their salvation through a process called election. The Jews Jesus with whom Jesus was speaking were not selected to be Jesus’ sheep.
Again, thank you for replying.
1
1
