Can we happy in heaven if we know are loved ones are in hell

[Jordon]

There's nothing confusing to me. All are made from dust and will return to dust, and all will be gathered to their ancestors in the afterlife, the difference is that the righteous live twice, die once, the unrighteous live once, die twice. There's no death in Christ, but life in Christ, and life abundantly.

I say it can be confusing for those who don't know, sorry I miss words out,

So the dieing part once for the righteous has to be when your made alive in Christ whilst your living in the flesh part, all tho some would believe you die again when you fall asleep. But not dead, just sleeping,

I can't see it to be honest. I can't see you fall asleep and know nothing until the lord returns,

 

[Lovette]

I say it can be confusing for those who don't know, sorry I miss words out,

So the dieing part once for the righteous has to be when your made alive in Christ whilst your living in the flesh part, all tho some would believe you die again when you fall asleep. But not dead, just sleeping,

I can't see it to be honest. I can't see you fall asleep and know nothing until the lord returns,

"Sleep" is a euphemism for the period in the grave between mortal death and bodily resurrection. The wicked, either Jew or Gentile, will just perish, "sleep" is never applied to them.

 

[Gideon300]

"Sleep" is a euphemism for the period in the grave between mortal death and bodily resurrection. The wicked, either Jew or Gentile, will just perish, "sleep" is never applied to them.

Not true. A number of wicked kings were said to have slept with their fathers.

 

[Lovette]

Not true. A number of wicked kings were said to have slept with their fathers.

We'll see about that, it may be a matter of translation. As I said, all are gathered to their ancestors, both righteous and wicked. The difference is the judgement, Lazarus goes to Abraham and rests in Abraham's bosom, the richman goes to Abraham as well yet suffers in scorching heat.

 

[Gideon300]

"Sleep" is a euphemism for the period in the grave between mortal death and bodily resurrection. The wicked, either Jew or Gentile, will just perish, "sleep" is never applied to them.

Further to your comment, "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment".

According to Revelation 20:4 & 5, the unbelieving dead rise at the end of the millennium. They will face God's judgement and be cast into the everlasting lake of fire.

 

[Jordon]

"Sleep" is a euphemism for the period in the grave between mortal death and bodily resurrection. The wicked, either Jew or Gentile, will just perish, "sleep" is never applied to them.

it makes no sense to me,.that Jesus would go down to paradise in the period of crucifixion and resurrection and preach to sleeping people

 

[Gideon300]

We'll see about that, it may be a matter of translation. As I said, all are gathered to their ancestors, both righteous and wicked. The difference is the judgement, Lazarus goes to Abraham and rests in Abraham's bosom, the richman goes to Abraham as well yet suffers in scorching heat.

"Sleep" is simply a euphemism for physical death. Jesus said that Lazarus was asleep. The disciples did not understand so Jesus made it plain. Lazarus was dead.

 

[Lovette]

it makes no sense to me,.that Jesus would go down to paradise in the period of crucifixion and resurrection and preach to sleeping people

Neither did Jesus go down to "paradise" or preach to the "sleeping people" in this case, he went to the "prison", the deepest section of the underworld, known as Tartarus, to judge the the wicked spirits.

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. (1 Pt. 3:19)

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell (Tartarus) and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; (2 Pt. 2:4)

 

[Lovette]

"Sleep" is simply a euphemism for physical death. Jesus said that Lazarus was asleep. The disciples did not understand so Jesus made it plain. Lazarus was dead.

Lazarus was asleep because he was about to be resurrected.

 

[Lovette]

Further to your comment, "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment".

According to Revelation 20:4 & 5, the unbelieving dead rise at the end of the millennium. They will face God's judgement and be cast into the everlasting lake of fire.

That's why they die twice.

 

[Jordon]

Neither did Jesus go down to "paradise" or preach to the "sleeping people" in this case, he went to the "prison", the deepest section of the underworld, known as Tartarus, to judge the the wicked spirits.

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. (1 Pt. 3:19)

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell (Tartarus) and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; (2 Pt. 2:4)

Its a passage that many scholars interpret in any many ways so can we determine one way over the other

One common view was it was a preaching of victory, which means they could have been awake or asleep and he preached over wicked people.

A silent unaware narrative of a silent preaching of victory isn't typically believed. But preaching to wicked people a victory are you sure, why i would I ask

The other concept is he preached to give those who died without hearing the gospel the opportunity to believe

It does say who where disobedient in Noah's days but it doesn't say they where wicked. So they still could have been preaching the gospel, as people are disobedient before being saved

Then theres scripture that says the saints who died appeared after resurrection to many people in Jerusalem.

The scripture don't say what happened to them after they appeared, so I can't believe they where put back to sleep or that where asleep before hand, just that they where raised.

Raised could be seen as they where seen as they where a sleep but theres no evidence of that either

 

[ewq1938]

the richman goes to Abraham as well yet suffers in scorching heat.

The rich man did not go to Abraham. He went to a different place but was allowed to speak to him.

 

[Lovette]

The rich man did not go to Abraham. He went to a different place but was allowed to speak to him.

If it's with earshot, it should qualify as "one place", albeit the great chasm.

 

[Lovette]

Its a passage that many scholars interpret in any many ways so can we determine one way over the other

One common view was it was a preaching of victory, which means they could have been awake or asleep and he preached over wicked people.

A silent unaware narrative of a silent preaching of victory isn't typically believed. But preaching to wicked people a victory are you sure, why i would I ask

The other concept is he preached to give those who died without hearing the gospel the opportunity to believe

It does say who where disobedient in Noah's days but it doesn't say they where wicked. So they still could have been preaching the gospel, as people are disobedient before being saved

Then theres scripture that says the saints who died appeared after resurrection to many people in Jerusalem.

The scripture don't say what happened to them after they appeared, so I can't believe they where put back to sleep or that where asleep before hand, just that they where raised.

Raised could be seen as they where seen as they where a sleep but theres no evidence of that either

Both passages dropped reference of the days of Noah, therefore they must be interpreted through the perspective of that period. The Scripture does tell us that in the days of Noah, all were wicked except Noah's family, so much so that it grieved God for creating them, and they all had to be wiped out with the flood.

The scholar I agree with is late dr. Michael Heiser who identify those evil spirits as the Nephilim, the giants. They were the ones that corrupted human gene pool at the time in order to snuff out the messianic line. I think that's in the right direction.

Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. (Gen. 6:5-8)

 

[ewq1938]

If it's with earshot, it should qualify as "one place", albeit the great chasm.

No it's two places separated by the chasm that cannot be traversed. That's technically 3 dif places.

 

[Lovette]

No it's two places separated by the chasm that cannot be traversed. That's technically 3 dif places.

Or two sides of the same place, one cannot reach to the other.

 

[ewq1938]

Or two sides of the same place, one cannot reach to the other.

Jades is always described as downward in the Earth but not heaven. It's two dif places with a third place inbetween.

 

[Lovette]

Jades is always described as downward in the Earth but not heaven. It's two dif places with a third place inbetween.

It's two sides of the same place, unless father Abraham was talking to the rich man on the phone.

That third place is Tartarus reserved for fallen angels, not humans.

 

[GWH]

We love because God first loved us/loves through us. We reflect divine love; this is not from ourselves.
Thus, it is God who is grieved by those who reject His love and choose hell.
In heaven, we will cast all our grief on Him who cares/loves.

 

[Jordon]

Both passages dropped reference of the days of Noah, therefore they must be interpreted through the perspective of that period. The Scripture does tell us that in the days of Noah, all were wicked except Noah's family, so much so that it grieved God for creating them, and they all had to be wiped out with the flood.

The scholar I agree with is late dr. Michael Heiser who identify those evil spirits as the Nephilim, the giants. They were the ones that corrupted human gene pool at the time in order to snuff out the messianic line. I think that's in the right direction.

Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. (Gen. 6:5-8)

I'm not sure, was the lord Jesus claiming victory when he said you wicked wicked and perverse generation how much longer much I put up with, when he spoke to the Jews, I believe he was rebuking them.

if the passage you quote refers to wicked people as Noah in genesis mentioned, why say he preached to the people who where disobedient in the underworld.

Why not say he preached to the wicked,

Many references on the bible show of the lord showing wrath to the wicked, but the word preached to the disobedient doesn't sound like wrath to the wicked.

If they are where wicked why was he preaching to them in the underworld, again why would he preach to them. What good would it do