Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

Romans 8:16.

The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.​

You think you and your Calvinism friends are the only ones who have that?

It's got to be either your way?
Or, you must be Arminian?

Neat trick. You never have to deal with anything opposing you with your limiting way of reasoning.

Not everyone who sees through TULIP's wrongs is an Arminian.
What you do is manipulative.
It leaves those who oppose you defeated (in your own mind) by censoring them,
and putting them in a box.

 

[Inquisitor]

Romans 8:16.

Exactly.

The direct evidence of the fruit of the Holy Spirit and the inner spiritual conviction.

Yet, the point you may be overlooking is that you may be self deceived and not aware that you are.

But I am hindered because I am fully aware that traditional theology is devoid of the power of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, they have an intellectual appreciation of the gospel but not the interaction with the Holy Spirit.

Paul was looking for two absolute signs in all the churches that he had correspondence with.

The two sure signs that a church is secure in Christ is FAITH and LOVE.

1 John 4:7-8
Beloved, let’s love one another; for love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
The one who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

The emphasis in all the letters of the N.T is always ultimately in that divine agape love because God is love.

The sovereignty of God is not the primary attribute that is highlighted by the apostles but that agape love.

Love is the fruit of the Holy Spirit and the primary fruit the direct evidence itself.

 

[Inquisitor]

Romans 8:16.

Do you have the internal activity of the Holy Spirit and the external activity of the Holy Spirit in your life?

Are you praying for the higher gifts of the Holy Spirit?

How do you know that you do not merely have an intellectual assent to the gospel?

 

[Inquisitor]

Calvin was a fallible man.

Did Calvin bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit?

Did Calvin forgive those who opposed him?

Did Calvin pray for and love his enemies?

What do you mean by "a fallible man"?

Is there the evidence of the power of the Holy Spirit in Calvin's behavior?

 

[Cameron143]

Exactly.

The direct evidence of the fruit of the Holy Spirit and the inner spiritual conviction.

Yet, the point you may be overlooking is that you may be self deceived and not aware that you are.

But I am hindered because I am fully aware that traditional theology is devoid of the power of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, they have an intellectual appreciation of the gospel but not the interaction with the Holy Spirit.

Paul was looking for two absolute signs in all the churches that he had correspondence with.

The two sure signs that a church is secure in Christ is FAITH and LOVE.

1 John 4:7-8
Beloved, let’s love one another; for love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
The one who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

The emphasis in all the letters of the N.T is always ultimately in that divine agape love because God is love.

The sovereignty of God is not the primary attribute that is highlighted by the apostles but that agape love.

Love is the fruit of the Holy Spirit and the primary fruit the direct evidence itself.

There are 5 tests in 1 John, but none are as certain as having God confirm His Spirit in you.

Do you know anything about hearing His voice, receiving the witness of the Spirit, joy unspeakable and full of glory, or the baptism with the Spirit?

 

[Inquisitor]

John Calvin's mistake....

Israel was established as a theocracy of God's.
The civil law written in the Law of Moses was the designated for the Theocracy of Israel.
Calvin failed to make that distinction.

Not to all nations.

The mere fact that Calvin was quoting the law to punish blasphemers and heretics, and anyone not obeying
his instructions. Is way more than one needs to realize that Calvin considered himself to be under the law.

Calvin was riding two horses at the same time both faith and the law.

Faith and law are incompatible with one another.

Galatians and Romans are very clear about the difference between the law and faith.

This is not a fallible man who made a mistake.

This is a man who did not have the inner spiritual conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Evidence, evidence, evidence.

 

[Inquisitor]

There are 5 tests in 1 John, but none are as certain as having God confirm His Spirit in you.

Do you know anything about hearing His voice, receiving the witness of the Spirit, joy unspeakable and full of glory, or the baptism with the Spirit?

Yes I do.

I have all the above.

I also believe in the gifts and ministries of the Holy Spirit.

I obey the Lord's commandment.

1 Corinthians 14:37-38
If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

Do you obey the Lord's commandment or do you have an alternate interpretation?

 

[Inquisitor]

There are 5 tests in 1 John, but none are as certain as having God confirm His Spirit in you.

Do you know anything about hearing His voice, receiving the witness of the Spirit, joy unspeakable and full of glory, or the baptism with the Spirit?

Surely by now Cameron you have witnessed so many alternative interpretations of the scripture.

You have been on C.F for a long time and you have seen most of the main factions, sects, in Christianity.

The fundamental and critical mistake is that reliance or obedience to the law which the traditional churches teach.

I am fully aware of the power of the Holy Spirit and the fruit of the Holy Spirit and GRACE.

You may have the inner witness of the Holy Spirit but how do you know that you are not deeply deceived?

There are many so called Christian sects that believe they have that inner witness of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes I do.

I have all the above.

I also believe in the gifts and ministries of the Holy Spirit.

I obey the Lord's commandment.

1 Corinthians 14:37-38
If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

Do you obey the Lord's commandment or do you have an alternate interpretation?

I walk in the Spirit. This is how I keep the commandments.

If all you say is true of you, how do you not know that you are indeed a child of God?

 

[Cameron143]

Surely by now Cameron you have witnessed so many alternative interpretations of the scripture.

You have been on C.F for a long time and you have seen most of the main factions, sects, in Christianity.

The fundamental and critical mistake is that reliance or obedience to the law which the traditional churches teach.

I am fully aware of the power of the Holy Spirit and the fruit of the Holy Spirit and GRACE.

You may have the inner witness of the Holy Spirit but how do you know that you are not deeply deceived?

There are many so called Christian sects that believe they have that inner witness of the Holy Spirit.

If you have truly been baptized with the Spirit and have experienced joy unspeakable and full of glory, you would say unequivocally that you are a child of God. That's it's purpose...assurance, along with power to perform the tasks God has called you to.

 

[Inquisitor]

I walk in the Spirit. This is how I keep the commandments.

If all you say is true of you, how do you not know that you are indeed a child of God?

There is a dynamic in human nature that allows anyone to have a level of deception in their understanding.

That level of deception may disqualify a person from salvation depending on the type and depth of that deception.

The Galatian church was in serious danger of falling from grace, fact.

The Galatian church had been deceived into thinking that they must be circumcised which is obeying the law.

Please read what Paul states in his letter to the Galatians.

Galatians 3:1-5
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? Have you suffered so much for nothing,
if it really was for nothing? Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice
the law, or because you hear and believe?

1 Thessalonians 1:5
For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just
as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sakes.

It is impossible to read the N.T and not accept the full power of the Holy Spirit.

How can you ask me "how do you not know that you are indeed a child of God"?

The bottom line in all of this is I cannot know and nor can you know whether our experience as a Christian.
Is an authentic experience or whether unbeknown to us we have been deluded.

 

[Inquisitor]

I walk in the Spirit. This is how I keep the commandments.

If all you say is true of you, how do you not know that you are indeed a child of God?

Do you really walk "in the Spirit"?

I highlighted that phrase for a reason, Cameron.

 

[Cameron143]

There is a dynamic in human nature that allows anyone to have a level of deception in their understanding.

That level of deception may disqualify a person from salvation depending on the type and depth of that deception.

The Galatian church was in serious danger of falling from grace, fact.

The Galatian church had been deceived into thinking that they must be circumcised which is obeying the law.

Please read what Paul states in his letter to the Galatians.

Galatians 3:1-5
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? Have you suffered so much for nothing,
if it really was for nothing? Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice
the law, or because you hear and believe?

1 Thessalonians 1:5
For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just
as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sakes.

It is impossible to read the N.T and not accept the full power of the Holy Spirit.

How can you ask me "how do you not know that you are indeed a child of God"?

The bottom line in all of this is I cannot know and nor can you know whether our experience as a Christian.
Is an authentic experience or whether unbeknown to us we have been deluded.

You obviously haven't had some of the spiritual experience you claim to have had. If you had, you would have assurance.

 

[Cameron143]

Do you really walk "in the Spirit"?

I highlighted that phrase for a reason, Cameron.

Yes, in the main.

 

[Inquisitor]

Yes, in the main.

What do you mean in the main?

 

[Cameron143]

What do you mean in the main?

For the most part. Generally; not always.

 

[Inquisitor]

For the most part. Generally; not always.

Can you be more specific?

 

[Cameron143]

Can you be more specific?

I attempt to keep my heart and mind stayed on things above. Some people call it walking in the Spirit or walking in the light or abiding in Christ or practicing the presence of God.

 

[DavidLamb]

Did Calvin bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit?

Obviously I was not there when he was alive, so I can only go by his own writings and the reports of other Christians.

Did Calvin forgive those who opposed him?

Did Calvin pray for and love his enemies?

What do you mean by "a fallible man"?

By "fallible man" I mean that like all Christians, he was not perfect. We see this even in the New Testament, where Peter denied even knowing Jesus Christ, and later, had to be corrected by Paul for refusing to eat with Christians who happened to be Gentiles.

Is there the evidence of the power of the Holy Spirit in Calvin's behavior?

As I mentioned above, I don't know him personally, so my judgement has to be based on what others say of him.

I repeat though, that I do not base my beliefs on John Calvin - I held the beliefs before I had even heard of Calvin - but on the infallible word of God, the Bible.

 

[GWH]

Obviously I was not there when he was alive, so I can only go by his own writings and the reports of other Christians.

By "fallible man" I mean that like all Christians, he was not perfect. We see this even in the New Testament, where Peter denied even knowing Jesus Christ, and later, had to be corrected by Paul for refusing to eat with Christians who happened to be Gentiles.

As I mentioned above, I don't know him personally, so my judgement has to be based on what others say of him.

I repeat though, that I do not base my beliefs on John Calvin - I held the beliefs before I had even heard of Calvin - but on the infallible word of God, the Bible.

Inspired Scripture may be inerrant, but human understanding/beliefs are fallible.
However, here are some Scriptures on the subject of human faith/volition:

John 3:16, Rom. 3:21-5:1, Matt, 23:37, 2Thes. 2:10-13, Heb. 6:4-6, 9:26-28, Matt. 12:31, Matt. 4:17, 7:7, Deut. 30:19, Matt. 23:37, John 6:29, 1Tim. 2:3-4, Jer. 18:8-11, 2Cor. 5:11-12, Gen. 3:6, Josh. 24:15, 2Chron. 7:14, Acts 2:38, 16:31, 28:27, Rom. 1:20, 2:4, 11&15, 3:22, 4:23-24, 5:15&19, 10:9-13, 11:32, Gal. 3:8&14, Eph. 2:8-9, Phil. 2:10-11, Col. 1:19-23.