Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[ScooterJackson]

Your misguided on that one there

Actually being misguided is on your end due to not accepting all the Lord says in His Word.
And I have nothing to do with the false doctrines of catholicism or reformed theology.

So you actually believe a Christian can live in sin and still go to Heaven?
Like those claiming to be gay christians?

 

[carbunculus]

Actually being misguided is on your end due to not accepting all the Lord says in His Word.
And I have nothing to undo with the false doctrines of catholicism or reformed theology.

So you actually believe a Christian can live in sin and still go to Heaven?
Like those claiming to be gay christians?

Your very much miss guided, eternal security is associated with love and peace, and being unbound from sin, where as the miss guided associate eternal security to sin,

This isn't just miss guided but honestly, in my opinion its something evil defiling peace, and calling it filth.

 

[ScooterJackson]

This isn't just miss guided but honestly, in my opinion its something evil defiling peace, and calling it filth.

Yes claiming one can live in sin and still be saved is certainly evil

 

[carbunculus]

Yes claiming one can live in sin and still be saved is certainly evil

You miss guided again, I'm wondering if there's any hope left for you to see sense, I will be blunt anti once saved always saved is a product of Catholicism , where by extreme radical corrupted mind sets target public chat sites all the time, mouthing of planting bad seeds corrupting the community community, growing plagiarism, causing doubt and division in the community,

The Catholic church will say they are led of the holy spirit, but when it comes to anti once saved always saved, no that's born out of a demonic possessed Catholic mind set,

Which is miss guided and something evil calling eternal peace sin, which is filth.

To be unbound from sin is peace, to want to curse me again with sin is of the devil

 

[ScooterJackson]

You miss guided again

Actually it's the reformers and the catholics both who are misguided as they reject the whole counsel of God in favor of following their own made up carnal minded man made religious systems. Very sad what will become of these people

To be unbound from sin is peace, to want to curse me again with sin is of the devil

1 John 3:8 - He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34 - Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 John 3:7 - Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:6 - Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1 Corinthians 15:34 - Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

 

[carbunculus]

Actually it's the reformers and the catholics both who are misguided as they reject the whole counsel of God in favor of following their own made up carnal minded man made religious systems. Very sad what will become of these people



1 John 3:8 - He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34 - Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 John 3:7 - Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:6 - Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1 Corinthians 15:34 - Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

Your more Catholic than most Catholic , the extreme Catholic s are all just like you.

For if we sin we have an advocate with the father

The advocate here means one called to help. That is Jesus who stands by the believer, it's called an ongoing relationship in forgiveness also.

Now It may be you can hear me but I doubt it.

And i very much doubt God is hearing you

 

[JimiSurvivor]

1. Peter Explicitly Establishes Two Metaphysically Distinct Groups
You claim there is no textual basis to suppose Peter is talking about two distinct groups. This is a massive oversight of the opening verses of Chapter 1 versus Chapter 2:

Peter mentions several distinctive groups in his second letter who differ from each only because of the different choices they make. Both had been set free from the pollution or corruption of the world. The first of the two, mentioned in chapter 1, being equipped with the promises from the word, stood ready to overcome the old nature by the power that is invested in His word:

3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge [epignosis] of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that THROUGH THEM you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, "Or excellence; twice in this verse" and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
(2 Peter 1:3-6)
The divine power which works in us to make us able to receive all things that pertain to life and godliness comes through the inner working of God's power through His word. I take this to be an obvious parallel of
Ephesians 3:20: Now to Him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within us,T

After having been set free from the defilements/pollutions of the world, the people mentioned in chapter 2 made took a different path than those in chapter 1. Since you believe in MONERGISM [i.e., the belief that GOD unilaterally controls every variable of creation including every thought, desire, choice and action of every sentient [and non-sentient thing] In this view, God, after helping these people ESCAPE from the world's corruption failed to give them the adequate measure of grace necessary to completely overcome their corruption so as to avoid falling back into the swine pen. It would be comparable to a physician who, upon discovering that a patient had a particular disease, prescribed the right treatment but did not continue it long enough so as to completely free them of the disease. Then, when they regressed and the symptoms returned, he announced that they should have kept to the proper diet and lifestyle.

God's reasons for doing this are said to be an inscrutable mystery, and, indeed, it is said to be rebellious even to question Him about this. God does whatever He wishes and a lump of clay has no right to say to Him. "WHY HAVE YOU MADE ME THIS WAY?" Of course, those first four generations of Christians who carried the gospel to the nations did NOT teach this. How do I know this to be true? Well, the writings of these men called the Early Church Fathers [ECF] are still extant and we can read and compare what they said to the later writings of philosophized theologians like Augustine of Hippo, and after him - Martin Luther and Jean Calvin. As a matter of historic fact, the ECF vigorously OPPOSED total divine unilateral determinism of individual destinies and its necessary correllary of human helpless. This teaching was common in the early centuries in philosophies such as Stoicism and Manichaeism both of which Augustine had believed during his pre-Christian state of wandering,

The Messianic gospel of salvation that was proclaimed by the Apostles differs greatly from these elitist cults in that it offers salvation to the whole human race. It is not conditioned on the unblemished performance of meritorious works [a standard which we will always fail to do]. Coming to salvation under the New Covenant depends on our REPENTING of our sins and putting our trust (FAITH) in the Lord Jesus to save us. Because we humans are self-willed and stubborn and do not readily relinquish control of our lives so God sent the Holy Spirit into the world. He is the One who through CONVICTION makes us conscious of our sin. Only when that is achieved, will we be willing to turn to Him for help.

Since, in a monergistic deterministic system, no being can make ANY free choice, disciples of John Calvin that are compelled to interpret the experience of every believer in 2 Peter 2 as that of a FALSE BELIEVER. This construct is used whenever an inconsistency in theology presents itself.

I

 

[brightfame52]

Peter mentions several distinctive groups in his second letter who differ from each only because of the different choices they make. Both had been set free from the pollution or corruption of the world. The first of the two, mentioned in chapter 1, being equipped with the promises from the word, stood ready to overcome the old nature by the power that is invested in His word:

3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge [epignosis] of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that THROUGH THEM you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, "Or excellence; twice in this verse" and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
(2 Peter 1:3-6)
The divine power which works in us to make us able to receive all things that pertain to life and godliness comes through the inner working of God's power through His word. I take this to be an obvious parallel of
Ephesians 3:20: Now to Him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within us,T

After having been set free from the defilements/pollutions of the world, the people mentioned in chapter 2 made took a different path than those in chapter 1. Since you believe in MONERGISM [i.e., the belief that GOD unilaterally controls every variable of creation including every thought, desire, choice and action of every sentient [and non-sentient thing] In this view, God, after helping these people ESCAPE from the world's corruption failed to give them the adequate measure of grace necessary to completely overcome their corruption so as to avoid falling back into the swine pen. It would be comparable to a physician who, upon discovering that a patient had a particular disease, prescribed the right treatment but did not continue it long enough so as to completely free them of the disease. Then, when they regressed and the symptoms returned, he announced that they should have kept to the proper diet and lifestyle.

God's reasons for doing this are said to be an inscrutable mystery, and, indeed, it is said to be rebellious even to question Him about this. God does whatever He wishes and a lump of clay has no right to say to Him. "WHY HAVE YOU MADE ME THIS WAY?" Of course, those first four generations of Christians who carried the gospel to the nations did NOT teach this. How do I know this to be true? Well, the writings of these men called the Early Church Fathers [ECF] are still extant and we can read and compare what they said to the later writings of philosophized theologians like Augustine of Hippo, and after him - Martin Luther and Jean Calvin. As a matter of historic fact, the ECF vigorously OPPOSED total divine unilateral determinism of individual destinies and its necessary correllary of human helpless. This teaching was common in the early centuries in philosophies such as Stoicism and Manichaeism both of which Augustine had believed during his pre-Christian state of wandering,

JimiSurvivor, you're assuming the very point you need to prove: that the people in 2 Peter 2 experienced regeneration and then lost their salvation.

1. Similar wording does not prove identical spiritual conditions​

Peter says of the believers in chapter 1:

“That by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2 Peter 1:4)

But concerning those in chapter 2, he writes:

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome...” (2 Peter 2:20)

Yes, both passages describe an escape from corruption. But where does Peter say the people in chapter 2 were born again, regenerated, or eternally justified?

He doesn't explicitly say that. You infer it from their escape and knowledge of Christ.

Yet knowledge of Christ and outward reformation do not, by themselves, prove regeneration. Peter concludes with the picture of a washed sow returning to the mire (2 Peter 2:22). The washing changed its outward condition, but the sow remained a sow.

That imagery is consistent with outward reformation without inward renewal. It does not prove that these people possessed eternal life and subsequently lost it.

2. God's provision does not make man the independent source of perseverance​

You argue that God gave both groups the means to overcome corruption, but one group chose differently.

However, Peter says of the believers in chapter 1:

“His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness.” (2 Peter 1:3)

The source is God's divine power. I do not deny the commands to grow in faith, virtue, knowledge, and godliness. I deny that those commands prove the decisive difference originates in an ability independently supplied by man.

Paul says:

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13)

And God promises:

“I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes.” (Ezekiel 36:27)

The believer genuinely wills, obeys, and perseveres. But God's work is not merely an opportunity that leaves the ultimate outcome to autonomous human ability.

3. Your physician analogy misrepresents monergism​

I am not saying God gives His people an insufficient remedy and then helplessly watches them fail.

My position distinguishes the phases of salvation:

• Eternal: God elects His people.
• Legal: Christ accomplishes redemption.
• Vital: The Spirit gives spiritual life.
• Practical: The regenerated sinner believes, repents, obeys, and perseveres.
• Final: God brings His people to glory.

Human responsibility is real. But the sinner's response does not become an independent contribution that makes God's saving purpose succeed.

Jesus says:

“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him.” (John 6:44)

Paul says:

“For unto you it is given... to believe on him.” (Philippians 1:29)

The sinner believes willingly, but Scripture directs us to God's gracious work as the source of that response.

4. Your historical claim does not settle the biblical question​

You claim the early Church Fathers unanimously opposed this teaching until Augustine. That sweeping claim requires evidence from the primary sources. Augustine's theology developed during the Pelagian controversy, but that does not by itself prove that his interpretation was invented rather than derived from Scripture.

Neither Augustine nor the earlier fathers settle the issue for us. The apostolic text does.

The question remains​

I am not denying that the people in 2 Peter 2 experienced a real change. I am asking you to establish that Peter identifies it as regeneration.

Where does Peter say they were born again and eternally justified before falling away?

Until you establish that from the text, you cannot use these passages to prove that regenerated people lose eternal life.

The distinction remains: outward escape from corruption is not automatically inward regeneration. And the believer's genuine obedience does not establish that the ultimate source of perseverance is autonomous human ability.

Christ accomplishes redemption. The Spirit gives life. The regenerated sinner believes and obeys. God brings His people to the end He has ordained.

 

[frederickdoc]

II noticed when this is brought out, that has to do with God alone I must assume.
Do you have The will to accept Jesus gospel then receive the Holy Spirit or you cannot receive the Holy Spirit or the Gospel it is your will your choice your decision any can change there any time either way for him or against him we'll see if other people screwing us up or you want to be in a crowd a popularity and man honor . Let The will be for the gospel of Jesus to know to receive the Holy Spirit by getting the spirit it is its own Covenant The flesh is dead to the spirit of God so no Old Testament laws apply to the Holy Spirit anointed of Men Quickened Ruach. But if you're Will is going to live by the Flesh, you must LOL keep All the commandments of the Old Testament just to look good too lol.
just pointing out the importance of His Will is the only will you should Want even by just mentioning His Name. Walk in the Holy Spirit OR walk as a Man. Choose your Covenant, only One works His Will!

 

[frederickdoc]

Here in The bible nt maybe never seen it as it was it's supposed to be understood .

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

This verse can sound terrifying on its own, but its true meaning is found by looking directly at the vocabulary used and the context of the entire chapter. The Two Meanings of "No More Sacrifice"
This chapter uses the concept of "no more sacrifice" in two completely opposite ways: one is the greatest promise in the Bible, and the other is a strict warning.

[th]The Verse (KJV)[/th][th]What it Actually Means[/th] [TR]
[td]Hebrews 10:18
"Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."[/td][td]The Ultimate Promise: Because the offering on the cross perfectly erased and blotted out sin forever, no more sacrifices are ever needed. The work is 100% finished.[/td]
[/TR]
[TR]
[td]Hebrews 10:26
"For if we sin wilfully... there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"[/td][td]The Warning Against Rejection: If a person intentionally walks away from the cross, there is no backup plan. God has no alternative sacrifice lined up to save them.


What is the "Willful Sin" Being Warned About?[/td]
[/TR]

The context of Hebrews was written to Hebrew believers who were facing intense persecution. They were being tempted to step away from the New Covenant and slip back into the old temple system of animal sacrifices to stay safe.
The "willful sin" here is not describing a believer falling into a moment of human weakness, slipping up, or struggling with a daily flaw. The text defines it further in verse 29:

1. Treading under foot the Son of God
2. Counting the blood of the covenant an unholy thing
3. Doing despite unto the Spirit of grace

This describes a total, deliberate turning of one's back on the King and the indwelling Spirit. The author is warning them: If you reject the finished work on the cross, you cannot go back to the old temple altars for forgiveness, because those animal sacrifices are empty now. Apart from Him, there is absolutely no other place where forgiveness can be found.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Human responsibility is real. But the sinner's response does not become an independent contribution that makes God's saving purpose succeed.

That's just reformed double speak!

Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Matthew 7:14 - Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luke 13:24 - Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Jesus did say to strive to enter in, and the way this is done in the New Covenant is to abide IN Christ by submitting our lives to Him as we fight the good fight of faith (1 Timothy 6:12)

I can do all things through Christ Who strengthen me (Philippians 4:13), which is how we strive as we fight the good fight of faith by submitting ourselves unto the Holy Spirit allowing Him to make us strong in God's Word

This is not earning our salvation or doing things in our own strength and ability as the unlearned falsely claim, this is being a true son of God by being led by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:14) based on God's Word (See John 16:13, and John 17:17) to be obedient to the Lord to abide IN Him.

 

[GWH]

All humans sin, but every sinner has the opportunity to repent/have saving faith per God's Word:

Gen. 3:6, Deut. 30:19, Josh. 24:15, 2Chron. 7:14,
Matt. 4:17, 7:7, 23:37, John 3:16, 6:39,
Acts 2:38, 16:31, 28:27,
Rom. 1:20, 2:4, 11&15, 3:22, 4:23-24, 5:15&19, 10:9-13, 11:32,
Gal. 3:8&14, Eph. 2:8-9, Phil. 2:10-11, Col. 1:19-23, 1Tim. 2:3-4, etc.

 

[ScooterJackson]

All humans sin

All humans have sinned in the past and it's possible they might sin in the future.
But not all humans live in sin.

 

[brightfame52]

That's just reformed double speak!

Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Matthew 7:14 - Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luke 13:24 - Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Jesus did say to strive to enter in, and the way this is done in the New Covenant is to abide IN Christ by submitting our lives to Him as we fight the good fight of faith (1 Timothy 6:12)

I can do all things through Christ Who strengthen me (Philippians 4:13), which is how we strive as we fight the good fight of faith by submitting ourselves unto the Holy Spirit allowing Him to make us strong in God's Word

This is not earning our salvation or doing things in our own strength and ability as the unlearned falsely claim, this is being a true son of God by being led by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:14) based on God's Word (See John 16:13, and John 17:17) to be obedient to the Lord to abide IN Him.

ScooterJackson,

You accuse me of "reformed double speak," yet your entire rebuttal rests on the classic synergistic error of confusing the evidential traits of an already-saved son with the conditions required to become one. You claim that your system doesn't "earn" salvation, but the moment you make the ultimate success of God's eternal purpose contingent upon your independent ability to "abide, submit, and fight," you are turning the Covenant of Grace into a blatant Covenant of Works.

Let us systematically address your scriptures with strict linguistic and causal precision to show that human responsibility is the consequence of a sovereign decree, not its cooperative cause.

1. The Causal Error on Romans 6:16 and 8:14

You quote Romans 6:16 ("to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey...") and Romans 8:14 to argue that being a true son depends on your act of yielding and being led by the Spirit.

Look carefully at the text's grammar. In Romans 8:14, Paul writes:

“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”

The phrase "as many as are led" is a descriptive marker, not a conditional threat. Paul does not say, "If you manage to lead yourself into submission, God will reward you by making you a son." Rather, being led by the Spirit is the unstoppable consequence of the fact that you are already a son by Phase I (Eternal Election) and Phase III (Vital Regeneration). The Spirit does not wait for a dead, hostile carnal mind (Romans 8:7) to autonomously volunteer to submit; He monergistically quickens the elect, which causes them to joyfully yield and obey.

2. The Strait Gate and Striving (Matthew 7:14 & Luke 13:24)

You point to Jesus' commands to "strive to enter in" and note that few find the narrow way. You assume that "striving" implies a variable creaturely ability that decides the outcome.

Let the text speak: Why do the "few" find it, while the "many" are not able?

Jesus completely settles this in the very same gospel narrative. Man in his natural state lacks the structural ability to come to Christ. In John 6:44, Jesus states: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him."

The Greek word for "strive" in Luke 13:24 is agōnizomai. The spiritual striving, the fighting of the good fight (1 Timothy 6:12), and the keeping of the faith are not independent human contributions. They are the practical manifestation of Phase IV (Practical Sanctification). The elect strive because God is actively working in them. As you accurately quoted Philippians 4:13, "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." If Christ is the source of the strength, then the glory for the striving belongs entirely to the Surety, not to the fleshly effort of the creature.

3. Abiding is the Fruit, Not the Root (John 15 & 17:17)

You argue that under the New Covenant, the way we stay saved is to "abide in Christ by submitting our lives." This is a direct inversion of New Testament theology.

We do not submit in order to abide; we abide because we have been legally and vitally joined to the Vine by an unalterable decree. In John 17:17, Jesus prays to the Father: "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."

Sanctification is a divine operation, not a human tightrope. Our good works, our continuing in the Word (John 16:13), and our practical obedience do not keep us saved; they are the evidential proof that Christ has already saved us by an unalterable, eternal decree. To make our flawed, ongoing obedience a condition to maintain our position in Christ is to look at the finished legal transaction of the Lamb on the cross (Phase II) and declare it insufficient without your personal assistance.

Conclusion: Responsibility Is Not Freedom

Human responsibility is absolutely real, and the elect are commanded to obey, fight, and stand. But responsibility does not equal libertarian free will. Fallen man is fully accountable to God for his rebellion, yet he is morally bankrupt and enslaved to sin until sovereign grace sets him free.

Your system turns the Holy Spirit into a passive coach who offers advice and strength, waiting to see if you will "allow Him to make you strong." The Bible presents a Sovereign Monarch who "worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" (Ephesians 1:11). The Spirit doesn't check to see if you signed the peace treaty; He writes the law directly onto the hearts of the elect (Jeremiah 31:33). The cross was a total success, the timeline of grace is unbroken, and your conditional framework stands completely dismissed.

---

 

[ScooterJackson]

You accuse me of "reformed double speak,"

Hey, enjoy your religion. Just don't expect everyone to bow down to your religion.

Some of us are going to stick with the Lord Jesus!

 

[brightfame52]

Hey, enjoy your religion. Just don't expect everyone to bow down to your religion.

Some of us are going to stick with the Lord Jesus!

ScooterJackson,

The absolute core of the matter is that sticking with the Lord Jesus means trusting exclusively in the absolute perfection of His finished work, rather than your own ability to maintain your standing. When you frame sticking with Christ as a variable, independent human contribution, you are turning a walk of faith into a performance-based checklist.

Let us look at the scriptural definition of what it truly means to stick with the Lord Jesus:

1. Christ Is the Author and Finisher

You talk about fighting, striving, and submitting as if the final outcome rests on your grip on Christ. But the Gospel declares that your security rests entirely on His grip on you.
As Hebrews 12:2 explicitly states, Jesus is:

“...the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

He does not author faith in Phase III (Vital Regeneration) and then leave you to finish it by your own strength or free-will "cooperation" in Phase IV (Practical Sanctification). He finishes what He starts. To stick with Jesus is to rest in the reality that He is the unyielding Surety who has already legally perfected His people forever (Hebrews 10:14).

2. The Power That Keeps Us

You quote scriptures about abiding and obedience, but you isolate them from the divine power that guarantees them. True sons of God are not kept by their own volatile, independent choices; they are "kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation" (1 Peter 1:5).

The practical walk of a believer—the striving, the fighting of the good fight, and the resisting of sin—is the inevitable fruit of a heart that has been fundamentally re-created by the Holy Spirit. As Paul declares in Philippians 1:6:

“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.”

Our responsibility to walk in obedience is real, but it is a driven responsibility. We work out our own salvation with fear and trembling precisely because "it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Conclusion: The Ultimate Test of Who Receives the Glory

Any theological system that leaves the final destiny of the soul hanging on a conditional switch of human libertarian free will is not sticking with the Christ of the Bible. It is preaching a fragile, unstable gospel where man's will is the ultimate first cause of salvation.

We stick with the Lord Jesus by proclaiming that His legal cross-work was a total, un-fallible success. He did not open a door and hope you would walk through it; He came to actually and completely save His sheep. The new nature He gives cannot fatally defect, the Spirit's quickening cannot be frustrated by the creature, and the Lamb alone wears the crown. The five-phase decretal chain is the only framework that honors the absolute supremacy of Christ, and your conditional, creature-centered theology remains completely undone.

---

 

[JulieM]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

We do and do not have free will. If we have a true Godly conscience, we do not have free will.

 

[JulieM]

Also, it sounds like you are straddling the fence. Sometimes you make free choices and sometimes you don't. How can you have it both ways? Is this a way of saying you are not responsible, and therefore God has no right to judge? Did the fallen angels have a free choice to rebel? If not then God's condemnation of them is unjust and even cruel. Lots of problems with your point of view.

I agree.

 

[Genez]

You make the error that many do by conflating having a choice with having free will. Nor does having a human will mean that it is free, because it is constrained by far too many factors to be considered truly free, Especially as a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness because he is taken captive to the will of the devil. The will of the natural man is inherently in opposition to God and hostile to Him.

Grace grants us God's power for our soul to be made free to choose.
That is why we were saved by grace.

Not saved by faith,
Saved by grace.

Once grace suppresses the flesh and frees the soul from the tyranny of the flesh, then the soul can chose to believe the Word of God.

Without grace? No one could believe because of the depravity of the fallen nature.