Catholicism vs Protestantism
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Pray to the death is pagan tradition
Some people in my country pray to the death. My friend sister in law use to pray to the death.
Her death uncle use to good in tabaco business when he life.
He know if this year good to store tabaco or not.
Not every tabaco good to store. Some quality will rotten if stored
So every harvest time she come to her uncle grave, make ritual of pray to ask her uncle if it is good time to stored tabaco this year? Her uncle will appear to her and tell her what to do.
One time a Christian told her that it is not her uncle, it is the devil that pretend to be her uncle.
She wasn't believe it, because it sound and appear like her uncle.
They decide to come to the grave together to prove it.
She start to pray, her uncle appear, Christian ask the devil to go, her uncle become a scary snake, Christian ask the snake to go, than the snake disappear.
I believe this what happen to catholic. They think saint able to help them, some time appears to them, but it is not real saint, it is the devil that pretend to be saint
Some people in my country pray to the death. My friend sister in law use to pray to the death.
Her death uncle use to good in tabaco business when he life.
He know if this year good to store tabaco or not.
Not every tabaco good to store. Some quality will rotten if stored
So every harvest time she come to her uncle grave, make ritual of pray to ask her uncle if it is good time to stored tabaco this year? Her uncle will appear to her and tell her what to do.
One time a Christian told her that it is not her uncle, it is the devil that pretend to be her uncle.
She wasn't believe it, because it sound and appear like her uncle.
They decide to come to the grave together to prove it.
She start to pray, her uncle appear, Christian ask the devil to go, her uncle become a scary snake, Christian ask the snake to go, than the snake disappear.
I believe this what happen to catholic. They think saint able to help them, some time appears to them, but it is not real saint, it is the devil that pretend to be saint
B
Of course we shouldn't be asking the dead to appear or for such as she asked. That is forbidden.
But that does not prove that praying to a person who has died to this life, to ask for their prayers, is wrong.
Just because pagans do something doesn't mean it is wrong for christians to do the same.
Pagans bury their dead. Does that mean christians should not bury their dead?
Pagans cremate their dead. Does that mean christians should not cremate their dead?
But that does not prove that praying to a person who has died to this life, to ask for their prayers, is wrong.
Just because pagans do something doesn't mean it is wrong for christians to do the same.
Pagans bury their dead. Does that mean christians should not bury their dead?
Pagans cremate their dead. Does that mean christians should not cremate their dead?
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She didn't ask her death uncle to appear, she ask advice from her death uncle and he appear to her.
Seem to me the devil like to show themselves when one pray to the death you decieve them
Quote
Apparition: Blessed Virgin Mary Appears in Kaduna Suburb. The Blessed Virgin Maryis said to have appeared in Nissi Village, a suburb of Kaduna. It is reported that she first appeared on Monday, 31st August 2015 and has since reappeared on three other occasions.
Seem to me the devil like to show themselves when one pray to the death you decieve them
Quote
Apparition: Blessed Virgin Mary Appears in Kaduna Suburb. The Blessed Virgin Maryis said to have appeared in Nissi Village, a suburb of Kaduna. It is reported that she first appeared on Monday, 31st August 2015 and has since reappeared on three other occasions.
Pope not only ask Mary for pray for people.
Pope ask Mary to protect human.
Ask one pray for is not the same as pray to
Example ask Mary to pray for pope
Dear Mary, pray for me.
Example pray to mary
Dear Mary, protect me from covid 19
What pope did is pray to
Quote
Pope Francis’ Prayer to Mary for Protection from Coronavirus
End quote
pray to
Pope ask Mary to protect human.
Ask one pray for is not the same as pray to
Example ask Mary to pray for pope
Dear Mary, pray for me.
Example pray to mary
Dear Mary, protect me from covid 19
What pope did is pray to
Quote
Pope Francis’ Prayer to Mary for Protection from Coronavirus
End quote
pray to
1. I never read a verse in the Bible teach to pray or ask the dead pray for us.
2. I never read a verse in the Bible say that the death in Christ able to hear billion people pray to them, or able to protect the living.
3. I know in my country, dome people pray to the dead, they are pagan, and yes some time devil pretend to be the death come to them and tell them what to do, devil know a lot and may make money for them, but it is not free.
4. I don't know the reason why need to pray ask protection to Mary and not to Jesus?
2. I never read a verse in the Bible say that the death in Christ able to hear billion people pray to them, or able to protect the living.
3. I know in my country, dome people pray to the dead, they are pagan, and yes some time devil pretend to be the death come to them and tell them what to do, devil know a lot and may make money for them, but it is not free.
4. I don't know the reason why need to pray ask protection to Mary and not to Jesus?
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B
Nothing is wrong with asking Jesus directly but do you never ask anyone to pray for you?
Asking others to pray for us biblical. Paul asked others to pray for him. Why did he not just ask Jesus directly.
We are all part of the Body of Christ, including those who are in heaven.
“For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in the one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.” (1 Cor 12:12-13)
When they died to this life they did not cease to exist, their souls did not cease to be one with Christ, to be part of his body.
Jesus said: “..whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?" (Jn 11:26). Therefore those who truly believe in Jesus never die. They are still part of His body. Jesus does not have a body with dead bits in it.
Jesus uses the image of the vine, with us as the branches.
“Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. Whoever does not abide in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.” (John 15:4-7)
Are those saints who die cut off from Christ and thrown into the fire? Or are they still abiding in Christ and still bearing much fruit? Is Jesus still doing for them whatever they ask?
Mary and the Saints are mighty prayer warriors. Think about it. Are they hindered by such things as human failings and needs (such as sleep)? Those in heaven have no hindrances of such a nature, they are made perfect, so they are even mightier than those of us on earth.
“The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective” (Jas 5:16). Are not those in heaven righteous & therefore their prayers powerful and effective?
Mary in particular is a mighty intercessor because of her special relationship with Jesus. We can see this from two examples, one from the Old Testament and one from the New Testament.
In 1 Kings 2:19-20 Bathsheba the mother of King Solomon petitions him on behalf of Adonijah.
So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. The king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right. Then she said, “I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me.” And the king said to her, “Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you.”
Solomon was open to granting her petition, although it did not end well because she asked for the wrong thing.
Mary is our King's mother and we believe equally open to hearing her petitions on our behalf. Of course we can approach the king directly, but perhaps those (Mary & Saints) in the very presence of God can make our requests more eloquently than we can. And it must please our King that we honour and value his mother just as he does.
Then consider the wedding at Cana in John’s gospel. They are short of wine; Mary sees the need and tells the servants “Do whatever he tells you” (Jn 2:5), and he responds. Mary was made aware of the need for wine. She then interceded on their behalf with her Son, who evidently was not going to respond to their need without her intercession. But because of her intercession, he then did respond.
Asking others to pray for us biblical. Paul asked others to pray for him. Why did he not just ask Jesus directly.
We are all part of the Body of Christ, including those who are in heaven.
“For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in the one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.” (1 Cor 12:12-13)
When they died to this life they did not cease to exist, their souls did not cease to be one with Christ, to be part of his body.
Jesus said: “..whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?" (Jn 11:26). Therefore those who truly believe in Jesus never die. They are still part of His body. Jesus does not have a body with dead bits in it.
Jesus uses the image of the vine, with us as the branches.
“Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. Whoever does not abide in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.” (John 15:4-7)
Are those saints who die cut off from Christ and thrown into the fire? Or are they still abiding in Christ and still bearing much fruit? Is Jesus still doing for them whatever they ask?
Mary and the Saints are mighty prayer warriors. Think about it. Are they hindered by such things as human failings and needs (such as sleep)? Those in heaven have no hindrances of such a nature, they are made perfect, so they are even mightier than those of us on earth.
“The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective” (Jas 5:16). Are not those in heaven righteous & therefore their prayers powerful and effective?
Mary in particular is a mighty intercessor because of her special relationship with Jesus. We can see this from two examples, one from the Old Testament and one from the New Testament.
In 1 Kings 2:19-20 Bathsheba the mother of King Solomon petitions him on behalf of Adonijah.
So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. The king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right. Then she said, “I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me.” And the king said to her, “Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you.”
Solomon was open to granting her petition, although it did not end well because she asked for the wrong thing.
Mary is our King's mother and we believe equally open to hearing her petitions on our behalf. Of course we can approach the king directly, but perhaps those (Mary & Saints) in the very presence of God can make our requests more eloquently than we can. And it must please our King that we honour and value his mother just as he does.
Then consider the wedding at Cana in John’s gospel. They are short of wine; Mary sees the need and tells the servants “Do whatever he tells you” (Jn 2:5), and he responds. Mary was made aware of the need for wine. She then interceded on their behalf with her Son, who evidently was not going to respond to their need without her intercession. But because of her intercession, he then did respond.
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Thank again my brother bede, but I believe the dead in Christ are not the same as people who still physically life.
For example, like what you say on previous post, the death in Christ do not have ability to talk to us, if apostle Paul able to preach to us now, he may do so because he willing and longing to bear fruit. And I will come to the church where he preach. Even if he preach in Australia I may save money to buy ticket at least once in my life time.
Apostle Paul love every body and i believe if he able, he like to preach every day, he don't need money anymore, he don't need transportation anymore because he don't have physical body anymore.
Why don't he do?
I believe not because he is lazy or don't love people, but there is limitation for physically death in Christ.
I believe he not able to talk to us anymore nor hear us
Among the physically living Christian, yes we need to love each other, pray for each other, but though we are one body, it doesn't mean we know what other need, ones must tell me or call me if one need me to pray for them. How you don't know if your hand hurt? Look odd if you don't know when your hand hurt
We are the body of Christ one body but we don't know if one of the member of our body that live in Africa hurt
My brother the term we are body of Christ is only an analogy, don't take it literal.
Yes the death in Christ not stop being part of Christ body. But it not guaranty they able to preach to us or hear us
I don't know about you, my brother, but for me, only if the Bible or one of the apostle letter command us to pray to Mary I do not do it.
Let me repeat one more time. The fact apostle Paul not preach from church to church anymore, not prove he is lazy, but he not able to do it anymore.
The living may lazy, because our earthly body are old and weary, not spiritual body.
For example, like what you say on previous post, the death in Christ do not have ability to talk to us, if apostle Paul able to preach to us now, he may do so because he willing and longing to bear fruit. And I will come to the church where he preach. Even if he preach in Australia I may save money to buy ticket at least once in my life time.
Apostle Paul love every body and i believe if he able, he like to preach every day, he don't need money anymore, he don't need transportation anymore because he don't have physical body anymore.
Why don't he do?
I believe not because he is lazy or don't love people, but there is limitation for physically death in Christ.
I believe he not able to talk to us anymore nor hear us
Among the physically living Christian, yes we need to love each other, pray for each other, but though we are one body, it doesn't mean we know what other need, ones must tell me or call me if one need me to pray for them. How you don't know if your hand hurt? Look odd if you don't know when your hand hurt
We are the body of Christ one body but we don't know if one of the member of our body that live in Africa hurt
My brother the term we are body of Christ is only an analogy, don't take it literal.
Yes the death in Christ not stop being part of Christ body. But it not guaranty they able to preach to us or hear us
I don't know about you, my brother, but for me, only if the Bible or one of the apostle letter command us to pray to Mary I do not do it.
Let me repeat one more time. The fact apostle Paul not preach from church to church anymore, not prove he is lazy, but he not able to do it anymore.
The living may lazy, because our earthly body are old and weary, not spiritual body.
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this came to my mind while I was pondering the things on this thread
26. In the same way, the Spirit also helps our weaknesses,
for we don`t know how to pray as we ought.
But the Spirit himself makes intercession for us with groanings which can`t be uttered.
(Romans, 8)
we don't know how to pray.
but that's okay,
the Spirit "edits" our prayers, anyways!
26. In the same way, the Spirit also helps our weaknesses,
for we don`t know how to pray as we ought.
But the Spirit himself makes intercession for us with groanings which can`t be uttered.
(Romans, 8)
we don't know how to pray.
but that's okay,
the Spirit "edits" our prayers, anyways!
