Children of God and thier birth

[Pilgrimshope]

Romans 5:1-5

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:14‬ ‭

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[wattie]

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:14‬ ‭

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Baptism for the remission of sins. The word 'for' when you go to other passages of the Bible and the Greek behind it, carries the meaning of 'in regards to' or 'because of '. This shows baptism being a response to salvation already given.

Being baptised by immersion in water because of, regarding having been converted already.

 

[Nehemiah6]

But it’s just already there I’m just acknolwedging what’s already there and sharing it …… if you don’t think baotism is important I do t have any issue with it , but the Bible makes it really plain and clear is my only point …..

There is a big difference between saying "baptism is important" and "baptism is necessary for salvation". So which is it? You must come right out and clear this up.

 

[Wansvic]

Baptism for the remission of sins. The word 'for' when you go to other passages of the Bible and the Greek behind it, carries the meaning of 'in regards to' or 'because of '. This shows baptism being a response to salvation already given.

Being baptised by immersion in water because of, regarding having been converted already.

Ananias' words to Saul (Paul) confirm, as referenced elsewhere in scripture, that an individual's sins are remitted upon obedience to the command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus:


"For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:15-16

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Baptism for the remission of sins. The word 'for' when you go to other passages of the Bible and the Greek behind it, carries the meaning of 'in regards to' or 'because of '. This shows baptism being a response to salvation already given.

Being baptised by immersion in water because of, regarding having been converted already.

idk really what your point is . it’s faith an act of faith you believe first what you heard it’s a promise like this watch how this unfolds

thisnis what Jesus had told them to do

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Here’s Peter now his first sermon after receiving the holy spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now what I’m saying is simple some of them listened to this and believed what was being said here what they did who heard the word and believed

“Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thechirch just grew by three thousand souls . Now probably there wre some who here’s what Peter said and they said “ naw we don’t believe this it’s heresy “ this group would t then run to get baptized acting in faith , the other group that listened to what Peter was saying about Jesus and then about the promise of baptism for remission of sins in his name and receiving the gist of the Holy Ghost they all got baptized because they believed

it’s about hearing what God said and believing what he said what he’s said to everyone is in the gospel and New Testament epistles

Im more interested in discussion what’s in there and what it actually said rather than debate things that aren’t there that’s why if you look at the original post here it’s mostly just scriptire talking about new north in Christ . It was just an attempt to open the biblical subject matter

air was never an attempt to argue about baptism personally I don’t have any questions about baptism I just believe what the Bible says about it this post wasn’t even about baptism it was just an attempt to open a biblical subject and discuss the many several other scriptures that explain the ones in the op just an attempt to discuss being born again …..

baptism is just one basic part of the doctrine it’s not even really something in question unless we begin with the “hypergrace no one needs to do anything gos said now because we have faith “ that whole deception would bring baptism into question but I’m more of a Bible believer

i don’t really look for reasons why I should t believe what I’m a plainly there I try to just accept it so my view regarding baptism is just basic I o my know what’s written down in scripture about it I don’t now nor do I ever expect to have my additional or secret information regarding the things God spoke forth in his word I believe it’s already all plainly there for believers to seek and find and believe so my own position is just rudimentary and basic “ pray for the lord to teach us what he’s saying in his word , study what God said in his word sent to all
Nations and peoples and believe it as you learn and follow where that leads you “

anything else I’m not going to really know anything about regarding the Bible not the stuff that’s in there I can discuss a little tiny bit of that but not the stuff that isn’t there I don’t know that part

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ananias' words to Saul (Paul) confirm, as referenced elsewhere in scripture, that an individual's sins are remitted upon obedience to the command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus:


"For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:15-16

you know how many people quote this from Paul ?


“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


That’s a summary of his many teachings like this part of his many teachings about baptism ?

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its crazy how people can read Paul and then not know anything about baptism for remission of sins it’s just kind boggling he teaches so much about baptism

 

[Wansvic]

There is a big difference between saying "baptism is important" and "baptism is necessary for salvation". So which is it? You must come right out and clear this up.

Salvation is not possible unless a person's sins have been remitted. And according to scripture, obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus was established for that purpose.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Salvation is not possible unless a person's sins have been remitted. And according to scripture, obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus was established for that purpose.

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. ( not confessing his sin he had no sin but as they confessed thier sins he joined with them in baptism who had no sins )

And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4-5, 9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:36-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is a promise

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;”

that also is a promise that was given to Abraham before the law of Moses was even spoken in earth to israel , the gospel was promised to all nations

“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?… He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. ( he believed what God told him )

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

“that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”( acts 2:38-39)
‭‭

So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, ( it’s from before the law sepersted Jews from gentiles ) there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2, 5-9, 26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:36-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we believe something we’re going to act upon it if we don’t we aren’t going to act upon it the Bible teaches us really clear doctrine about what baptism is and why we do it in who’s name it is done and what it means for those who partake because they hears and believe

but on the other hand if someone believes the gospel and no one ever told them about baptism for remission , and they actually have never heard and believed that part . In fact of people taught them “ baptism isnt for you Jesus never told any of you to get baptized that’s just for Jews ect ect has nothing to do with salvation ect ect

his going to be held accountable table for that I wonder ? The sinner who believes Jesus died for thier sins and went to a flawed sermon ? Or the one who is claiming to be teaching then a new revolutionary message from God ?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Salvation is not possible unless a person's sins have been remitted. And according to scripture, obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus was established for that purpose.

You are holding to and promoting a FALSE DOCTRINE. It is repentance that is necessary for the forgiveness of sins. Acts 2:38 has been greatly misrepresented, but Acts 3:19 sets the record straight. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

 

[Wansvic]

You are holding to and promoting a FALSE DOCTRINE. It is repentance that is necessary for the forgiveness of sins. Acts 2:38 has been greatly misrepresented, but Acts 3:19 sets the record straight. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 2:38 says what it says. There is no contradiction in the scripture you referenced. Both scriptures reference the need to repent AND... Repentance is making a conscience decision to change the direction of one's life and turn to God. All are then faced with the decision whether to believe and obey God's word concerning water baptism in the name of Jesus and be converted.

"Repent, AND be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sin and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

"Repent ye therefore, AND be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;" Acts 3:19

 

[Wansvic]

...
If we believe something we’re going to act upon it if we don’t we aren’t going to act upon it the Bible teaches us really clear doctrine about what baptism is and why we do it in who’s name it is done and what it means for those who partake because they hears and believe

but on the other hand if someone believes the gospel and no one ever told them about baptism for remission , and they actually have never heard and believed that part . In fact of people taught them “ baptism isnt for you Jesus never told any of you to get baptized that’s just for Jews ect ect has nothing to do with salvation ect ect

his going to be held accountable table for that I wonder ? The sinner who believes Jesus died for thier sins and went to a flawed sermon ? Or the one who is claiming to be teaching then a new revolutionary message from God ?

My first thought is God is not beholden to man. It is man who is beholden to God. And since God's word is established forever I believe both parties would be held accountable.

Personal responsibility is an outdated notion for many in today's society; nonetheless it remains in full force in God's economy. I am reminded of the Bereans who were commended for searching the scriptures to confirm if what they were being told was true. (Acts 17:10-11)

Jesus addressed aspects relative to the kingdom of God in Matthew 6:33 and 13:44:
Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in a field.

Hidden treasure must be searched for and dug out. And in the same way we find and understand God's truths. Our willingness to pursue truth reveals our love for God. It is those who hunger and thirst after righteousness that shall be filled. (Matt. 5:6)



Scripture reveals God will lead those who earnestly seek Him.
"Yea, IF thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.
For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding." Prov 2:3-6

"And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." Luke 11:9-10


"That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:" Acts 17:27


Lastly, Romans 6:3-6 references that obedience to baptism is what brings about the reality of being buried with Jesus wherein one's sins are destroyed.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

My first thought is God is not beholden to man. It is man who is beholden to God. And since God's word is established forever I believe both parties would be held accountable.

Personal responsibility is an outdated notion for many in today's society; nonetheless it remains in full force in God's economy. I am reminded of the Bereans who were commended for searching the scriptures to confirm if what they were being told was true. (Acts 17:10-11)

Jesus addressed aspects relative to the kingdom of God in Matthew 6:33 and 13:44:
Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in a field.

Hidden treasure must be searched for and dug out. And in the same way we find and understand God's truths. Our willingness to pursue truth reveals our love for God. It is those who hunger and thirst after righteousness that shall be filled. (Matt. 5:6)



Scripture reveals God will lead those who earnestly seek Him.
"Yea, IF thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.
For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding." Prov 2:3-6

"And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." Luke 11:9-10


"That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:" Acts 17:27


Lastly, Romans 6:3-6 references that obedience to baptism is what brings about the reality of being buried with Jesus wherein one's sins are destroyed.

“My first thought is God is not beholden to man. It is man who is beholden to God. And since God's word is established forever I believe both parties would be held accountable.”

Yea definitely God is not beholden to man …..

setting this aside of course

wouldnt the lesser party have to first hear about the terms and how it affects them and understand it before they are accountable is what I’m saying ?



Does a loving father hold a child accountable for something they never heard about and didn’t know ?

Or only something that’s been taught and made clear and the child refuses willfully and knowingly to obey ?

We need to hear the gospel as it is this is when we begin to have faith that moves and operates if we just knew what the Bible alone says without any “special interpretations “ then those who heard and are believers are going to act in faith in simple basic doctrine like baptism

at he only reason anyone has any doubts or issues with baptism is because we reject what’s written down about it and create our own version of what it even looks s what it’s for how it affects us ect


we’re in desperate need as a church of returning to what Jesus actually said and what his apostles actually taught in the scriptures

and rejecting all the contrary words out there claiming to be the truth there’s a lot more confusion than anything because so few will begin with the standard of what our lord and savior and judge said will save us the truth from God

Instead so many refuse what is written and just take a sentence out of it and create entire new age doctrines that refuse most of what’s written down by the apostles

almost like we want to be special by having this special way of reading the Bible and see all these hidden things no one else is able to see ……but it’s just plain so a child can hear it and believe is the secret there is no special way of hearing and reading it it’s just whether we believe

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: the child of God and his new birth?
Depends which 'dispensation' one finds himself:

1) under the law/water baptism? Absolutely!:

a) "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans,​

justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.​

​

But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of ​

God against themselves, being not baptized of him."​

(Luke 7:29-30)​

​

b) "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;​

but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16)​

c) "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every ​

one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,​

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)​

​

prophecy / covenants / law for Israel

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

2) Mystery / Grace For The One Body Of Christ

a) Under The Grace Of God / ONE Spiritual Baptism? Absolutely!!​

“By” ONE Holy Spirit! ............................ ↓ Spiritual! ↓​

(Ephesians 4:3-6; 1 Corinthians 12:13 [ No water! ] ):​

​

Into His Death, And Buried With Him! ​

(Romans 6:3; Colossians 2:12)​

​

Into HIS ONE Body!! (1 Corinthians 12:13)​

​

Into JESUS CHRIST!!! (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)​

​

b) Results: Eternal Relationship, child of God? Absolutely!!!​

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!​

​

c) Additional Benefit:​

​

God's Eternal Life Assurance​

Amen.

ps: homogenization of 1 + 2 = Massive Confusion!

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace,​

as in all churches of the saints." (1 Corinthians 14:33)​

 

[Wansvic]

“My first thought is God is not beholden to man. It is man who is beholden to God. And since God's word is established forever I believe both parties would be held accountable.”

Yea definitely God is not beholden to man …..

setting this aside of course

wouldnt the lesser party have to first hear about the terms and how it affects them and understand it before they are accountable is what I’m saying ?



Does a loving father hold a child accountable for something they never heard about and didn’t know ?

Or only something that’s been taught and made clear and the child refuses willfully and knowingly to obey ?

We need to hear the gospel as it is this is when we begin to have faith that moves and operates if we just knew what the Bible alone says without any “special interpretations “ then those who heard and are believers are going to act in faith in simple basic doctrine like baptism

at he only reason anyone has any doubts or issues with baptism is because we reject what’s written down about it and create our own version of what it even looks s what it’s for how it affects us ect


we’re in desperate need as a church of returning to what Jesus actually said and what his apostles actually taught in the scriptures

and rejecting all the contrary words out there claiming to be the truth there’s a lot more confusion than anything because so few will begin with the standard of what our lord and savior and judge said will save us the truth from God

Instead so many refuse what is written and just take a sentence out of it and create entire new age doctrines that refuse most of what’s written down by the apostles

almost like we want to be special by having this special way of reading the Bible and see all these hidden things no one else is able to see ……but it’s just plain so a child can hear it and believe is the secret there is no special way of hearing and reading it it’s just whether we believe

You asked the question, "Does a loving father hold a child accountable for something they never heard about and didn’t know ? The question actually does not apply to what we are discussing. Obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin is an essential aspect of becoming a child of God.

Consider that those who receive Jesus (believe in Him) are given the power to BECOME sons of God; indicating that they are not yet sons at that point. (John 1:12-13)


Scripture reveals that believing and obeying the gospel message is what results in becoming a child of God:
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-41

 

[Wansvic]

...
wouldnt the lesser party have to first hear about the terms and how it affects them and understand it before they are accountable is what I’m saying ?
...

Since all will be judged by the word, of necessity everyone will be given an opportunity to hear the truth. Whether a person chooses to take advantage of those opportunities is up to them. That is what I meant by personal responsibility.