Children of the Promise

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KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#101
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
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#101
What you posted is awsome! I just saw something in what you said. Think about this, Israel is the first born representing our flesh birth. Christ is the second born representing our miraculous second birth. As you pointed out, both Israel and Jesus were called out of Egypt... that's because they both represent us. Israel reprents the struggles and failures in the flesh and Christ represents our victory in the second birth!

PS you're filling up my notes lol.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#102
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#102
KJV1611 said:
What you posted is awsome! I just saw something in what you said. Think about this, Israel is the first born representing our flesh birth. Christ is the second born representing our miraculous second birth. As you pointed out, both Israel and Jesus were called out of Egypt... that's because they both represent us. Israel reprents the struggles and failures in the flesh and Christ represents our victory in the second birth!

PS you're filling up my notes lol.
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The firstborn being rejected from receiving the inheritance is found throughout scripture: Cain, Ishmael, Esau, Reuben. Saul, the first king of Israel, was rejected. Even Christ, the firstborn son of GOD was rejected, but then GOD raised him from the dead. This follows the pattern that Paul mentioned of first the natural, then the spiritual. Just the way GOD works. GOD picks who he wants to inherit his promises (spiritual riches), not man's custom (primogeniture).
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#103
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
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#103
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The firstborn being rejected from receiving the inheritance is found throughout scripture: Cain, Ishmael, Esau, Reuben. Saul, the first king of Israel, was rejected. Even Christ, the firstborn son of GOD was rejected, but then GOD raised him from the dead. This follows the pattern that Paul mentioned of first the natural, then the spiritual. Just the way GOD works. GOD picks who he wants to inherit his promises (spiritual riches), not man's custom (primogeniture).
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Christ was not the first born son of God, he was the second born son... Israel was God's first born son.

Exodus 4:22 KJV
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord , Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#104
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#104
KJV1611 said:
Christ was not the first born son of God, he was the second born son... Israel was God's first born son.

Exodus 4:22 KJV
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord , Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
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Well there you go. First the natural, then the spiritual.

Firstborn from the dead, then.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#105
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#105
KJV1611 said:
Christ was not the first born son of God, he was the second born son... Israel was God's first born son.

Exodus 4:22 KJV
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord , Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
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That is taking 'literalism' too far! It was a metaphor. Christ was God's 'firstborn' Son from eternity
 
E

ember

Guest
#106
#106
Blain said:
Then if I misunderstood you I apologize
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Absolutely and yes I think you did misunderstand


I was somewhat short with you so I also apologize.

I know you have a big heart for God! hugs in Jesus
 
E

ember

Guest
#107
#107
KJV1611 said:
Yes I'm KJV only. It takes more than a KJV bible to understand God. A person must be truly saved and believe every single word in the bible. When you do that, God will show you great and mighty things but.... expect to be persecuted severely. People hate Christians who actually believe the bible and let the bible speak on it's own. That's why the killed Christ. Christ spoke the word of God and not the doctrines of men and people hated him for it.
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You don't believe every single word in the Bible as you don't believe what the scriptures state regarding the Jews.

'THEY' did not kill Christ.

Jesus laid down His life and took it back again.

Don't tell others how they don't know the Bible when you preach a false doctrine and apparently do not even understand that NO ONE killed Christ...He GAVE UP HIS LIFE.

for sinners...of which we all were at one time
 
E

ember

Guest
#108
#108
Originally Posted by kaylagrl
WE all killed Christ. He died for OUR sin!! YOURS and mine. Not one of us does not have His blood on our hands.



That's religious talk, it doesn't come from the bible. Jesus said all the righteous blood shed on the earth is upon the Jews. Because they slew all the prophets including the RIGHTEOUS blood of Jesus THE PROPHET.

Matthew 23:35 KJV
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
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you are so mixed up I pray you find the way because you are surely not on it now

worse, you are attempting to draw others away

that net you spread is already entangled around your own feet

Jesus was not speaking to all the Jews here...He was/IS speaking to all the false teachers and false prophets...such as yourself...what you teach is false
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#109
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#109
valiant said:
That is taking 'literalism' too far! It was a metaphor. Christ was God's 'firstborn' Son from eternity
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So tell me, did God lie when he said Israel was his firstborn son?

Exodus 4:22 KJV
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord , Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Show me scripture that says Christ was God's firstborn son from eternity?
 
E

ember

Guest
#110
#110
Blain said:
There is a problem with your logic here, just because so many others refuse to listen and are stubborn in their own views and beliefs and doctrines doesn't mean that there are not those who have a teachable heart who are not stubborn in what they see as truth.

If you assume this then what is the point? Why even bother showing the scriptures why even bother trying to change a persons heart?
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All a person can do is expound from the scriptures as you say Blain

BUT remember, that God can and does at times harden hearts

What do you suppose happens when a person hears the truth over and over and yet continues in falsehood?

I am not someone's judge here...their own words judge them in light of the truth

I am only posting in here for the sake of anyone coming along and reading this thread and who does not understand what the scriptures state

I cannot change another's heart...we can only pray

I understand what kayla is saying and also your concerns...but do not be concerned for God is fair and He alone judges the heart

However, this teaching concerning Israel is utterly false and it is with truth that I rebuke it

Again, I am not posting to the op...only refuting the lies for the sake of anyone who does not yet or has not yet come to make a decision here
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#111
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#111
ember said:
you are so mixed up I pray you find the way because you are surely not on it now

worse, you are attempting to draw others away

that net you spread is already entangled around your own feet

Jesus was not speaking to all the Jews here...He was/IS speaking to all the false teachers and false prophets...such as yourself...what you teach is false
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So what's the mix up? Where did the bible get it wrong... I'm only quoting scripture. Show me in detail where I'm wrong please.

Matthew 23:35 KJV
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#112
Jan 13, 2016
17,653
3,807
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#112
Agree, the first Adam was a son of God, but the second Adam is the Lord Jesus Christ. Inevitably, that's what election is all about, God rejecting the first(fleshly) and choosing the second(spiritual). God elected Jacob(Israel) over Esau.

HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The firstborn being rejected from receiving the inheritance is found throughout scripture: Cain, Ishmael, Esau, Reuben. Saul, the first king of Israel, was rejected. Even Christ, the firstborn son of GOD was rejected, but then GOD raised him from the dead. This follows the pattern that Paul mentioned of first the natural, then the spiritual. Just the way GOD works. GOD picks who he wants to inherit his promises (spiritual riches), not man's custom (primogeniture).
Click to expand...
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#113
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#113
John146 said:
Agree, the first Adam was a son of God, but the second Adam is the Lord Jesus Christ. Inevitably, that's what election is all about, God rejecting the first(fleshly) and choosing the second(spiritual). God elected Jacob(Israel) over Esau.
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True... so why do you try to make the firstborn the elect?
 
J

justababe

Guest
#114
#114
Romans 9:27 - New King James Version (NKJV)[SUP]27 [/SUP]Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:[SUP][a][/SUP]
“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.

This verse shows us two types of Israel. They really should be viewed as physical Israel and spiritual Israel. The remnant that will be saved is spiritual Israel and always has been. Jesus made it possible for Gentile believers to be included into spiritual Israel. We were grafted into the olive tree meaning we were made a part of Israel. How? Certainly not physically. We were spiritually grafted in.

That doesn't change the fact that Israel the nation is a chosen nation. There will always be a remnant of physical Israel who are also spiritual Israel, and I believe that prophecy shows that national Israel will one day recognize that Jesus is the Messiah. There will still be physical Jews who are not saved which means that they are not God's people, but Israel as a nation will one day be a Christian nation.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#115
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#115
justababe said:
Romans 9:27 - New King James Version (NKJV)[SUP]27 [/SUP]Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:[SUP][a][/SUP]
“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.

This verse shows us two types of Israel. They really should be viewed as physical Israel and spiritual Israel. The remnant that will be saved is spiritual Israel and always has been. Jesus made it possible for Gentile believers to be included into spiritual Israel. We were grafted into the olive tree meaning we were made a part of Israel. How? Certainly not physically. We were spiritually grafted in.

That doesn't change the fact that Israel the nation is a chosen nation. There will always be a remnant of physical Israel who are also spiritual Israel, and I believe that prophecy shows that national Israel will one day recognize that Jesus is the Messiah. There will still be physical Jews who are not saved which means that they are not God's people, but Israel as a nation will one day be a Christian nation.
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Scripture always witnesses that the natural is rejected from inheriting the promises.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#116
Jan 13, 2016
17,653
3,807
113
#116
Israel was God's elect people to bring the "seed." Jesus Christ, the second Adam, is God's elect to bring salvation. What's wrong with this?

KJV1611 said:
True... so why do you try to make the firstborn the elect?
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KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#117
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#117
John146 said:
Israel was God's elect nation to bring the "seed." Jesus Christ, the second Adam, is God's elect to bring salvation. What's wrong with this?
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Right, but they are not elect for the inheritance promised to Abraham and his seed Chirst. That belongs to the children of the promise which is not the children of the flesh.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#118
Jan 13, 2016
17,653
3,807
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#118
If you're referring to replacement theology, then no, I do not believe the Church has replaced Israel.

The Church and Israel are not the same thing. The Church does not get the promises that God gave Israel. The promises that God gave Israel were unconditional and not based on whether Israel stayed faithful or not. The promises were based on the faithfulness of God alone. Read Romans 11:11-29 and notice that the context is the unconditional promises of Israel.

Romans 11:29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."

If God lied to Israel about their promises then maybe we as believers should be worried about our promise of eternal security. As for me, I believe what God said, exactly how He said it in His word. Israel has not been replaced by the Church or any other group. God is not done with Israel because He will restore His people at the Second Coming as the scriptures teach in Revelation and all throughout the Old and New Testament.


KJV1611 said:
Right, but they are not elect for the inheritance promised to Abraham and his seed Chirst. That belongs to the children of the promise which is not the children of the flesh.
Click to expand...
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#119
#119
Blain said:
There is a problem with your logic here, just because so many others refuse to listen and are stubborn in their own views and beliefs and doctrines doesn't mean that there are not those who have a teachable heart who are not stubborn in what they see as truth.

If you assume this then what is the point? Why even bother showing the scriptures why even bother trying to change a persons heart?
Click to expand...

Blain this has been discussed here many many many times. Ive started threads and have posted in others. KJV1611 as I have said,will not listen. I gave him a bunch of verses and proof and what does he do? Denies every bit of it. The Bible says Israel is the apple of His eye,Israel are Gods chosen people. But will he admit that? No. They will not listen. They have hardened their heart because they are so antisemitic. Yet they won't admit that. Christkillers they say. Its no wonder some Jews hate Christians. Jews have been exiled ,persecuted and horribly murdered all by people who claim Christ. smh Replacement Theology is a cursed false teaching indeed.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#120
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#120
John146 said:
If you're referring to replacement theology, then no, I do not believe the Church has replaced Israel.

The Church and Israel are not the same thing. The Church does not get the promises that God gave Israel. The promises that God gave Israel were unconditional and not based on whether Israel stayed faithful or not. The promises were based on the faithfulness of God alone. Read Romans 11:11-29 and notice that the context is the unconditional promises of Israel.

Romans 11:29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."

If God lied to Israel about their promises then maybe we as believers should be worried about our promise of eternal security. As for me, I believe what God said, exactly how He said it in His word. Israel has not been replaced by the Church or any other group. God is not done with Israel because He will restore His people at the Second Coming as the scriptures teach in Revelation and all throughout the Old and New Testament.
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Could you please explain these verses.

Romans: 9. 7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. - Bible Offline
 
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