Children of the Promise
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Well While i agree that Israel is not God's chosen people alone at least not flesh wise I get where your coming from. Many times I have tried to reach someone I showed them the scriptures I gave deep details as to why what they were doing and saying was wrong but all of it was rejected without them even considering it at all. The whole I am right you are wrong kind of stubborness is what makes it where we cannot grow much in Christ, but something I noticed is that even though that person refused to listen to reason and while I could not help them I was able to help others who I never mean to.
many people browse the forums some hardly ever post or post at all but they all read our posts and are prone to being touched by them, so perhaps what you posted wasn't for him but somone else
many people browse the forums some hardly ever post or post at all but they all read our posts and are prone to being touched by them, so perhaps what you posted wasn't for him but somone else
Originally Posted by kaylagrl
Blain this has been discussed here many many many times. Ive started threads and have posted in others. KJV1611 as I have said,will not listen. I gave him a bunch of verses and proof and what does he do? Denies every bit of it. The Bible says Israel is the apple of His eye,Israel are Gods chosen people. But will he admit that? No. They will not listen. They have hardened their heart because they are so antisemitic. Yet they won't admit that. Christkillers they say. Its no wonder some Jews hate Christians. Jews have been exiled ,persecuted and horribly murdered all by people who claim Christ. smh Replacement Theology is a cursed false teaching indeed.
But the church was at one time all jews, the believing remnant , and they gathered gentile proselytes as they had always done. Unbelieving Jews were cut off from Israel (Rom 11.12-24). THIS formed the true Israel.
God's purpose is that some of the unbelievers might be gathered back, but only by becoming Christians. How is that anti-Semitic,?
You accuse people of being anti-Semitic who aren't
Originally Posted by kaylagrl
Blain this has been discussed here many many many times. Ive started threads and have posted in others. KJV1611 as I have said,will not listen. I gave him a bunch of verses and proof and what does he do? Denies every bit of it. The Bible says Israel is the apple of His eye,Israel are Gods chosen people. But will he admit that? No. They will not listen. They have hardened their heart because they are so antisemitic. Yet they won't admit that. Christkillers they say. Its no wonder some Jews hate Christians. Jews have been exiled ,persecuted and horribly murdered all by people who claim Christ. smh Replacement Theology is a cursed false teaching indeed.
Who said so? The early Jewish Christians,
I keep trying to write it up differently grabbing other points.
If you just follow the scripture out according to the thread title the "children of the promise" it pertains to the gift of the Spirit
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you
in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The promise is to these as well as all God would call
Acts 2:38 For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort,
saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect.
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children:
but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:
but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
That which pertains to Isaac, whereas Paul says,
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
And again, ... the children of the promise are counted for the seed (Romans 9:8)
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit,
even so it is now.
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons,
the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh;
but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants;
the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia,
and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son:
for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him,
If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man:
how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. (Romans 6:17, 20, 1 John 3:8)
John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever:but the Son abideth ever.
John 8:39 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me,
because my word hath no place in you. (1 John 2:24)
John 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father:
and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. (Ephes 2:3, 1 John 3:8)
John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father.
Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God:
this did not Abraham. (Gal 4:29, John 15:20)
The children "of the promise" pertains to the Spirit
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you
in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38 For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles, but of them first
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem,
until ye be endued with power from on high.
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem,
but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
1 Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
These being the children of the promise (Spirit)
Christ (even the Son of promise) would send (Luke 24:49)
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:9
The children of the flesh (Abraham through Agar) had come before the Son of promise (Isaac)
Paul writes, Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. (Gal 4:28)
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit,
even so it is now. (Gal 4:29)
Paul was of the Jews (as one the saying) among the Gentiles, that WE brethren as Isaac was are the children of the promise, that pertains to the Spirit (of promise) in respects to being children of the same (having the Spirit of Christ).
If you just follow the scripture out according to the thread title the "children of the promise" it pertains to the gift of the Spirit
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you
in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The promise is to these as well as all God would call
Acts 2:38 For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort,
saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect.
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children:
but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:
but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
That which pertains to Isaac, whereas Paul says,
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
And again, ... the children of the promise are counted for the seed (Romans 9:8)
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit,
even so it is now.
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons,
the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh;
but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants;
the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia,
and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son:
for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him,
If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man:
how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. (Romans 6:17, 20, 1 John 3:8)
John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever:but the Son abideth ever.
John 8:39 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me,
because my word hath no place in you. (1 John 2:24)
John 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father:
and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. (Ephes 2:3, 1 John 3:8)
John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father.
Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God:
this did not Abraham. (Gal 4:29, John 15:20)
The children "of the promise" pertains to the Spirit
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you
in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38 For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles, but of them first
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem,
until ye be endued with power from on high.
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem,
but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
1 Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
These being the children of the promise (Spirit)
Christ (even the Son of promise) would send (Luke 24:49)
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:9
The children of the flesh (Abraham through Agar) had come before the Son of promise (Isaac)
Paul writes, Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. (Gal 4:28)
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit,
even so it is now. (Gal 4:29)
Paul was of the Jews (as one the saying) among the Gentiles, that WE brethren as Isaac was are the children of the promise, that pertains to the Spirit (of promise) in respects to being children of the same (having the Spirit of Christ).
I just wanted to say this real quick for anyone who might take it to heart. A lot of times a persons heart is not changed by being proven wrong, in the bible discussion forum the most common theme I see is I am right. Even with good intentions such as teaching them the truth but them never listening or refusing to even consider what you are trying to show them it can easily only end up fueling the fire.
However many times I have seen a hardened heart softened not because someone proved they were wrong but because they were humble even when the other person wasn't because responded in kindness and did not retaliate. Their mind and heart would be likened to still waters, and this is how I have seen the hearts of cold stone melted.
even something as humble apology seems to have more power in it than proving them wrong
However many times I have seen a hardened heart softened not because someone proved they were wrong but because they were humble even when the other person wasn't because responded in kindness and did not retaliate. Their mind and heart would be likened to still waters, and this is how I have seen the hearts of cold stone melted.
even something as humble apology seems to have more power in it than proving them wrong
They do point out Pilate was determined to let him go but how they would not.
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. (John 19:12)
Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
Acts 13:28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
And verse 4:28 as well, determined to be done before
Acts 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
As it said,
Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
As Pilate noted,
Mark 15:4 And Pilate asked him again, saying, Answerest thou nothing? behold how many things they witness against thee.
Mark 5:5 But Jesus yet answered nothing; so that Pilate marvelled.
Mark 15:9 But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
Mark 15:14 Then Pilate said unto them,
And they cried out, Crucify him
Why, what evil hath he done?
And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.
Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
Mat 27:26 Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.
Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Acts 13:28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
Acts 8:3 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
Acts 13:3 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus;whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. (John 19:12)
Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
Acts 13:28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
And verse 4:28 as well, determined to be done before
Acts 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
As it said,
Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
As Pilate noted,
Mark 15:4 And Pilate asked him again, saying, Answerest thou nothing? behold how many things they witness against thee.
Mark 5:5 But Jesus yet answered nothing; so that Pilate marvelled.
Mark 15:9 But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
Mark 15:14 Then Pilate said unto them,
And they cried out, Crucify him
Why, what evil hath he done?
And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.
Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
Mat 27:26 Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.
Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Acts 13:28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
Acts 8:3 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
Acts 13:3 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus;whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
K
You're wrong. The church has not replaced Israel. This theology is anti-semitic. As I have said before,the Catholic church denounced it years ago as did other churches. Then someone drags it out again and tries propagate it all over again. Satan hates the Jews because they are Gods chosen. Its a pity that he has used some in the Christian church throughout history to persecute the Jews,Gods own chosen people.
Your sub-group simply are believers from all... nations. Yet that did NOT change anything about God's election and choosing of a specific seed in Isaac, and that's where you lack understanding.
Rom 9:6-16
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Abraham had other seed, Ishmael and children thru Keturah, but they were excluded from the promise. Through Abraham's son Isaac was to be the seed of the promise.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
That shows God's choosing and election of the seed of Isaac. It is NOT saying to exclude flesh seed through Isaac, but the reverse, that the promise is established by... the seed of Isaac based on God's choosing and election of Isaac. Yet it still continues through specific lineages even within Isaac:
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Even with Isaac's seed that would continue after him with Jacob, God had already chose the younger Jacob over his elder brother Esau. Thus even though Esau was born of the seed of Isaac, Esau was not chosen. Yet his younger brother Jacob was chosen by God.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God That sheweth mercy.
KJV
Rom 9:6-16
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Abraham had other seed, Ishmael and children thru Keturah, but they were excluded from the promise. Through Abraham's son Isaac was to be the seed of the promise.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
That shows God's choosing and election of the seed of Isaac. It is NOT saying to exclude flesh seed through Isaac, but the reverse, that the promise is established by... the seed of Isaac based on God's choosing and election of Isaac. Yet it still continues through specific lineages even within Isaac:
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Even with Isaac's seed that would continue after him with Jacob, God had already chose the younger Jacob over his elder brother Esau. Thus even though Esau was born of the seed of Isaac, Esau was not chosen. Yet his younger brother Jacob was chosen by God.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God That sheweth mercy.
KJV
I expect us to disagree. No matter how close I ever am to someone I always expect us to disagree I always expect arguments fights words that probably should not have been said but that is how any relationship works one cannot expect to not have problems not have fights not have different thoughts or beliefs that is just all fairy tale stuff.
There never has been and never will be a perfect friendship a perfect relationship
There never has been and never will be a perfect friendship a perfect relationship
John that answer doesn't make sense to me. Read my comments below and tell me if you agree or not.
Romans 9:6-8 KJV
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
There are two Israels and one of them is not the true Israel.
[7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
There are two seeds of Abraham but only one of them are the true children. The last part of the verse says that Christ will come from Isaac's seed.
[8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The children of the flesh are not the children of God. The children of God are the children of the promise.
Romans 9:6-8 KJV
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
There are two Israels and one of them is not the true Israel.
[7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
There are two seeds of Abraham but only one of them are the true children. The last part of the verse says that Christ will come from Isaac's seed.
[8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The children of the flesh are not the children of God. The children of God are the children of the promise.
I can't use the real words that I want to use in my responses.... I want to say that Christians were called out of the flesh children of Israel. The reason I can't use that word which is 100% accurate is because most you that I'm debating don't believe the bible. And I'm not being mean, I am being truthful. The bible tells us that Christ was in the church in the wilderness... that means there were Christians in the assembly in the wilderness.
Acts 7:38 KJV
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
Acts 7:38 KJV
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
I would have to disagree with you here. I think almost everyone in the bdf believes the bible it's just their perception and understanding of it differ vastly from each others.
The zeal and the passion for God and his word is evident the problem is many go about it the wrong way, they will allow their emotions to take control and say and think things that aren't the heart or eyes of God, they will say mean and horrible things about and to each others much of which I am sure they know in their hearts isn't true and was spoken from anger.
The zeal and the passion for God and his word is evident the problem is many go about it the wrong way, they will allow their emotions to take control and say and think things that aren't the heart or eyes of God, they will say mean and horrible things about and to each others much of which I am sure they know in their hearts isn't true and was spoken from anger.