Children of the Promise

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Could show the things in Isaac (Son by Gods promise) to Abraham pointing forward in Christ

Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering,
and laid it upon Isaac his son; (Cross)

Who offered up his only begotten son (who was by God's promise)
not Abrahams seed after the flesh (as Ishmael) son of the bondwoman

Of whom it was said,
That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Abraham accounting that God was able to raise him up ,
even *from* the dead (faith in the operation of God)

*From whence* also
he received him **in a figure** (the law having shadow of)

*Him* did God raised up the third day, (even Christ Jesus) the Son of God
and *shewed him openly* (His resurrection from the dead)

Or this way,

Gen 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father,

and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son.

And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but *where is the lamb* for a burnt offering?

The law having *shadow of* good things to come, and not the very image of the things

Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son,
God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering:
so they went both of them together.

The law prophesied until John where we see him exclaim,

John 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

And there it is, God provided himself a lamb
(picture of His own Son) upon whom was placed the wood (the cross of Christ)

And likewise Paul writes,

Romans 8:2 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all,
how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

God having preached before the gospel unto Abraham, the promise was to Abraham and his seed which is Christ

And what was shown in a figure beforehand (by the ministry of the prophets)
God did show openly (in His Son Jesus Christ)

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made.
He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed,
and heirs according to the promise.

Called in Isaac, is even Christ

 

[PeterJens]

This is why in the OT Books of the prophets God made many promises specifically to the nation of Israel, even promising that Israel will NEVER CEASE being a nation before Him, forever!

There is a massive difference between a righteous nation following the Lord fulfilling the Lords promise to Israel and the nation of Israel as we see it today.

The problem is one of behaviour and faith. Israel is Jewish in cultural identity but not religion. It serves Israel to plead to the zionists to project their struggle as a fulfillment of promises, but with the level of dictatorship, violence and oppression being used, it is very difficult to call this a work of God. And that is the debate.

With a christian audience of billions, this is a powerful story line for Israel to play, and large sums of money and lethal force are used to support it. There are jewish rabbies in Holland who have been attacked, imprisoned etc for daring to suggest a counter non-zionists message.

Bottom line until this zionist propoganda is countered there will not be peace in Israel, and the palistinian problem will continue and possible cause global war. Is that what you want? Yes support Israel as you would support any country in need, but not because of a miss-placed theology.

 

[valiant]

You're wrong. The church has not replaced Israel. This theology is anti-semitic. As I have said before,the Catholic church denounced it years ago as did other churches. Then someone drags it out again and tries propagate it all over again. Satan hates the Jews because they are Gods chosen. Its a pity that he has used some in the Christian church throughout history to persecute the Jews,Gods own chosen people.

I repeat, listen again and THINK. Israel has not been replaced, only unbelieving Israel has been rejected by God. The true Israel were the remnant who believed in the Messiah. Though the number of the children of Israel were as the sand of the sea, only A REMNANT will be saved, (Rom 9.27). Is that anti-Semitic? Poor old Paul.

If you look through history you will find that the vast majority of Israel were rejected by God. So God is anti-Semitic too?

PAUL claimed that it was so. Rom 11.12-24;Galatians 3.28-29; Ephesians 2.11-22; 1 Pet 2.9.

I think you are anti-God's TRUE Israel which is composed of a large minority of the Jews together with Gentile proselytes..

LOL you accept the rejected Jews whom God spurned and reject the large minority of Jews who became Christians before any Gentiles were in the church. I prefer THOSE WHOM GOD CHOSE.

 

[KJV1611]

I repeat, listen again and THINK. Israel has not been replaced, only unbelieving Israel has been rejected by God. The true Israel were the remnant who believed in the Messiah. Though the number of the children of Israel were as the sand of the sea, only A REMNANT will be saved, (Rom 9.27). Is that anti-Semitic? Poor old Paul.

If you look through history you will find that the vast majority of Israel were rejected by God. So God is anti-Semitic too?

PAUL claimed that it was so. Rom 11.12-24;Galatians 3.28-29; Ephesians 2.11-22; 1 Pet 2.9.

I think you are anti-God's TRUE Israel which is composed of a large minority of the Jews together with Gentile proselytes..

LOL you accept the rejected Jews whom God spurned and reject the large minority of Jews who became Christians before any Gentiles were in the church. I prefer THOSE WHOM GOD CHOSE.

I could not have said that better myself lol. Excellent post.

 

[KJV1611]

You should instead ask, "What is significant about Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?"

For God is The God of... Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob.

Ex 3:15
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is My name for ever, and this is My memorial unto all generations.
KJV



Luke 20:37
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
KJV

The bible says in Isaac shall thy seed be called... what is he talking about? This is where you think the Jewish bloodline is called right? Explain how they are called.

 

[KJV1611]

That above still... shows inability to understand God's Word on the matter.

Did Jesus choose Apostle Paul or not????

Did God choose the OT saints or not???

Someone today, whether born of the seed of Israel or not, that believes on Jesus Christ WITHOUT ANY direct divine intervention like God did with the OT saints and His NT Apostles shows what difference??? It shows that God CHOSE certain ones out of Israel according to His Election, and NOT because of anything... they did!

Like Paul said in Rom.9 quoting God, saying He will have mercy upon those whom He CHOOSES.

This is why in the OT Books of the prophets God made many promises specifically to the nation of Israel, even promising that Israel will NEVER CEASE being a nation before Him, forever!

God's chosen people are called Christians. God called most Christians out of the children of Israel in the Old Testament. Today he calls most Christians out of the Gentile nations.

 

[DP]

Justice. Israel is becoming more right wing and extreme in the way it handles conflict.

A large part of the Jewish community hate zionism, and think defining Israel as the religions representation of their faith is wrong. The extreme muslims want Israel to continue to exist so they have something to hate and get the whole community angry about. Equally the right wing Israelis want to be victims so their behaviour in the west bank can be justified.

Now if as christians we want to spiritualise these two groups who are squeezing prophecy to justify hatred and that is meant to be of God, I doubt that very much. The problem is if the nutcases in Israel actually try and re-establish the temple.

WWIII will be on its way. Things are moving into place where insanity can walk.

If you want to talk about significant prophecy, killing 6 million jews should be ranked up there, but there is just silence. I think this is superstition type ideas, rather than anything sane. Ahmnedimijad wanted to push politics to war so that the Mahadii would appear. This kind of insanity has not gone away. For any christian to say this is how God works needs some serious help.

Lack of understanding about what's going on in the middle east comes from not understanding God's Word, for He showed us.

Anyway, lot of the Jews that are in political control in Israel are converts to Judaism, they are not blood-born of the tribes of Israel.

Zionism is a doctrine agreed upon by both the Jews and globalist one-worlders that happen to also be Christians. That's why it's so important for us to be paying attention to what's going on in Jerusalem for the end so as to not be deceived.

If WWIII happens because of these things you mention, that won't be the end yet, remember what our Lord Jesus said about wars and rumors of wars. But another world war would... serve the purpose of allowing them to bring in their world king, a false messiah to Jerusalem like our Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us in His Word for the end.

 

[DP]

God's chosen people are called Christians. God called most Christians out of the children of Israel in the Old Testament. Today he calls most Christians out of the Gentile nations.

You need to read all of God's Word instead of just staying in the NT Books.

And even then, you need to learn how to 'heed' NT Scripture, like what Apostle Paul said:

Rom 11:25-32
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
KJV

Since the hatred in your heart against Jews is preventing you from understanding that above Scripture by Paul, I will explain it to you again...

Even with the start... of that Romans 11 Chapter, Paul is declaring a PRESERVED remnant of Israel according to God's ELECTION OF GRACE. That means He CHOSE them. They are CHOSEN.

In contrast, Paul also showed how a part of Israel God BLINDED so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles (the Scripture I post above). And that BLINDNESS away from Christ Jesus is to continue until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in which will only happen with Jesus' 2nd coming.

Paul showed YOU and us, those BLINDED by God's Hand will be SAVED.

That means, even though TODAY they may refuse Christ Jesus, the fat lady has not sung yet, because the blindness God put upon them is STILL IN PLACE to only be removed by Jesus for all of them, when He comes.

But you are wrongly being taught to CONDEMN them, as if you thought you even had power to condemn the unbeliever!?!@!!

 

[DP]

Some brethren just won't study God's Word for themselves!!! That's the reason some here don't have a clue of what Israel is really about!!! Hey, but you're not alone, for many of the Jews don't really understand either, but they will when our Lord Jesus returns, all will then understand.

The name Israel PER GOD'S WORD does NOT represent a political faction, nor Zionism, nor just a geographical area in the middle east, nor just Jews.

The name Israel is the 'new name' God gave to Jacob when he wrestled with the Angel of The Lord, and asked for a blessing. Even after God gave Jacob that new name of Israel, Jacob still used his old name too, which points to what? It suggests an emphasis of the name Israel representing something greater than a piece of earth or flesh peoples. It represents God's Plan of Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ, and those whom God chose to take that Plan to all nations and peoples.

The word Israel means 'to prevail with God's help'. It is a Salvation name for God's Plan of Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ. This is WHY... the name Israel will still continue into Christ's future Kingdom and God's future Kingdom for the eternity. It is why Jesus said His Apostles will sit upon 12 thrones judging over the 12 tribes of... Israel in His future Kingdom.

God ordained of old (and I'd say even before He told Moses) that Israel was to be a kingdom of priests, a holy nation. Was that so those priests could serve themselves or just those born of Israel? God forbid, no! It was so they could serve in God's Salvation to ALL NATIONS AND PEOPLES. Apostle Peter repeated this idea for Christ's elect servants. We are to become priests and kings in Christ's future Kingdom. It's time to start training for that instead of playing games.

And don't think just because a portion of old Israel refused Christ that God changed His promises to the seed of Israel about their becoming a kingdom of priests. God's Birthright that He first gave through Abraham continued all the way down to Joseph's son Ephraim, where it still is... today, for as written Jacob was to become "a nation, and a company of nations", and Ephraim was to become "a multitude of nations" which has been fulfilled in The Gospel of Jesus Christ primarily in the Christian West.

 

[valiant]

You need to read all of God's Word instead of just staying in the NT Books.

And even then, you need to learn how to 'heed' NT Scripture, like what Apostle Paul said:

Rom 11:25-32
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

ALL Israel will be saved WHEN THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES HAS COME IN. They are needed for 'all israel' (both Jew and Gentile) to be saved.

It CANNOT mean all natural Israel will be saved because he has previously stated, 'though the number of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a REMNANT will be saved,

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

The Jews are enemies for your sake, the election from among the Jews (the believers) are beloved for the Father's sakes, it is quite simple really.

You simply misunderstand Paul

 

[DP]

ALL Israel will be saved WHEN THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES HAS COME IN. They are needed for 'all israel' (both Jew and Gentile) to be saved.

It CANNOT mean all natural Israel will be saved because he has previously stated, 'though the number of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a REMNANT will be saved,


The Jews are enemies for your sake, the election from among the Jews (the believers) are beloved for the Father's sakes, it is quite simple really.

You simply misunderstand Paul

I've not misunderstood Paul.

Rom 11:15
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
KJV

Rom 11:23-27
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
KJV



Amos 9:8-9
8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.


9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
KJV

Christ's future 1,000 years reign is going to be a time of teaching. Those who erred will be taught doctrine (Ezek.44). That is when God will remove that 'blindness' Paul said there that God put upon the Israel in part.

You no doubt, are simply confused about the difference between the false Jews Jesus pointed to (Rev.2 & 3) compared to the true bloodline seed of Jacob. Lot of today's Jews have no bloodline heritage from the children of Israel, and instead were foreigners that converted to the Jew's religion.

 

[valiant]

I've not misunderstood Paul.

Rom 11:15
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
KJV

Rom 11:23-27
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

SOME will, all believe that,

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
KJV

Yes Paul is using Israel in two different ways (as in 9.6). Paul has ALREADY said only a remnant will be saved. If all Israel here means all natural Israel then Paul has contradicted himself. QED

 

[KJV1611]

Show the verse that says Jacobs earthly bloodline is God's chosen people.

 

[valiant]

Amos 9:8-9
8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.


9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
KJV

Fulfilled after the exile.

Christ's future 1,000 years reign is going to be a time of teaching. Those who erred will be taught doctrine (Ezek.44). That is when God will remove that 'blindness' Paul said there that God put upon the Israel in part.

LOL you believe in that ridiculous monstrosity of 1000 years reign on earth when billions of resurrected believers will mix with earthly people and it will all end in chaos and failure,

 

[John146]

Deuteronomy 7:6 For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth.

Deuteronomy 7:7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye [were] the fewest of all people:

Deuteronomy 7:8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Show the verse that says Jacobs earthly bloodline is God's chosen people.

 

[DP]

SOME will, all believe that,
[/B][/COLOR]


Yes Paul is using Israel in two different ways (as in 9.6). Paul has ALREADY said only a remnant will be saved. If all Israel here means all natural Israel then Paul has contradicted himself. QED

Why are you quoting from Romans 9 when we're speaking of Romans 11?

You're misinterpreting that Romans 9 passage also. Timing in Scripture is important!

Rom 9:25-30
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not My people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28 For He will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
KJV


Go check that "Osee" part out in the Book of Hosea. It was written specifically to the ten tribe "house of Israel" signified by Ephraim.

There, Paul is teaching that Hosea Scripture to ... Gentile Romans who believed, showing how they represent its fulfillment in The Gospel of Jesus Christ. But by themselves only? No, for it included the elect remnant of Israel of THEN in Paul's day.

Rom 11:4-5
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV



There's the "remnant" reference again in Rom.11. Is that the FINAL saved remnant of Israel though? NO! Of course not!

With that remnant of the seed of Israel according to the election of grace, Paul was showing that it was already in his day, NOT any idea that it was yet complete in his day!

 

[DP]

Show the verse that says Jacobs earthly bloodline is God's chosen people.

Gen 28:10-18
10 And Jacob went out from Beer-sheba, and went toward Haran.
11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.
12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.
13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.
16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not.
17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.
18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.
KJV

Isa 41:8-20
8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
9 Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.
10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.
11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.
12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.
13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.
14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.
15 Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shalt make the hills as chaff.
16 Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD, and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel.
17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them.
18 I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.
19 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:
20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.
KJV

 

[DP]

Paul has ALREADY said only a remnant will be saved. If all Israel here means all natural Israel then Paul has contradicted himself. QED

How would Paul be contradicting himself, when all he did there in Rom.11 is QUOTE that OT Scripture of what GOD said?

You guys keep skipping over the subject of 'blindness' that Paul plainly covered there...

Rom 11:7-11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded


8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.


9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:


10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.


11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
KJV


That's only about the rest of the seed of Israel that rejected Jesus, not the elect remnant of Paul's day.

Today, that's mainly about the unbelieving orthodox Jews, more properly the "house of Judah" per God's Word, the three tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi especially.

 

[DP]

Fulfilled after the exile. [/COLOR]

The gathering of both houses of Israel, like per Ezekiel 37, has still YET to happen today. The majority of Jews in the holy land today are of the "house of Judah" (3 tribes Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and some small remnants of the ten tribes that chose to side with Judah back in Jeroboam's days). The majority of the seed of Israel, is STILL scattered among the nations today.

LOL you believe in that ridiculous monstrosity of 1000 years reign on earth when billions of resurrected believers will mix with earthly people and it will all end in chaos and failure,

I believe what Jesus gave His servant John to write down in Rev.20, yes. The fact that you don't shows you've got a huge problem! Because that "thousand years" is very easy to understand as meant literally.

 

[kaylagrl]

Where do you get remnant from, please explain.

I did,Romans 11.