Christ is God

SilverFox7 · Oct 10, 2024

“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: ( rome was going to allow Jews to worship still but they changed this a short time later ) and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭9:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in Matthew 24 this was about to happen so Jesus is preparing them

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains: let him which is on the house top not come down to take any thing out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:15-18, 20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. ( desolation of Jerusalem written of by daniel when it was besieged and destroyed by Roman armies in 70 ad about twenty years or so after this )

Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

( the law and prophets were what had been written when Jesus said this the Old Testament of the Bible was about to be fulfilled on jerusalems as it had been warned for ages )

But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

also mark 13 is another account of Jesus sermon about this matter which we can again see details we can’t otherwise

“But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains: and let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: and let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:11-16, 19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The great tribulation note they appear in heaven in revelation 7

“And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: ( preists ) and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:14-17‬ ‭

we have prophecy about Jesus coming also just as they did but we’re looking for the New Testament prophecies like this one

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is about his retirn which we are waiting for his to appear from heaven just as he went away into heaven he will return

“this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven,

shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus hasn’t returned from heaven yet we agree but the Old Testament prophecy is fulfilled with his first coming , there’s alot of prophecy left but it’s in the New Testament doctrines

Good stuff, brother! I have some other battles to attend to, but I will provide some detailed commentary in the near future, God willing

SilverFox7 · Oct 20, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts on end time events, brother, and although this world will likely suffer immensely during the tribulation in the future, we have the hope of Jesus' return and a new age under His leadership. Like Paul said in the verse you quoted above from Thessalonians, "...so shall we ever be with the Lord" (I Thess. 4: 17). In a world filled with a lot of misery and death, my hope is having our tears wiped away and death being tossed into the lake of fire, so we can bask ourselves in the love and mercy of God forever.

Pilgrimshope said:

Pilgrimshope · Oct 20, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

Amen brother I always enjoy reading your thoughts as well no matter the subject , they are always worthy of reflection and consideration.

“But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, Neither have entered into the heart of man, The things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it is written

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:

and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the lord revealed it by his spirit

“ I was in the spirit on the lords day ….”

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:

for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭

“And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:6-7‬ ‭

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.

I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. THE END”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13, 16, 20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Amen brother he’s got a lot of wonderful plans ahead and a wonderful home and eternity to dwell therin with him for those who love him

So much of Christianity, of our faith is about what we can’t and haven’t seen but we have heard about and believe because he promised and he is faithful we believe in him and trust his word of promise

and so little is about what we can already see and possess and attain but looking forward in hope of those things we cannot reach or really know yet but we can see them far off because we believe

Did you ever notice God makes a covenant with Abram and he shows him the land of Israel’s inheritance Abraham walks through it touches and sees and owns it .

But then later God makes a second eternal covenant with Abraham giving him a new name and promising him his own seed rather than ishmael

about when he does make the second he invites Abraham to look up into the heavens at the many stars far away and distant shining and majestic how beautiful it must have been with no lights on the plains and hills when he looked up to the far away stars .

Different from the land Abraham couldn’t really understand the stars or walk among them couldn’t touch and really know the details but he believed what god told him when he was looking far-away into the heavens and then God calls him righteous

“And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭15:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

soon after this second promise

“As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Remember prior he had Abram look at the land he was giving him on earth and says his children would be as the dust of the earth

“And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: for all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭13:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:

and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:1-3, 7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In Hebrews we find out Abraham’s gaze was towards the heavens and second covenant promise walking by faith

“By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: for he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. ….These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:9-10, 13, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

SilverFox7 · Oct 26, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

These are great thoughts, brother, about our father of the faithful, Abraham. What an example he set, and God had a special relationship with him even though Abraham was far from perfect. The best way I've heard the covenant with Abraham described is one of "race and grace."

He was blessed with two great nations and peoples - Israel through Isaac and the Arabic peoples through Ishmael. And, of course, all of us as Christians are related to Abraham through Jesus Christ and His grace.

Sorry for the delayed responses recently. I started a new job that is taking up a lot of my time right now. I'll settle in shortly and get back in the loop with these great discussions. I definitely want to talk a little more about Abraham, especially the NT perspective on him.

Pilgrimshope · Oct 26, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

sure if you look even further back to Abraham’s relative Noah and his three sons you see the dividing of the nations israel , adopted gentiles who would dwell with Israel , and the cursed who would always be fighting with isreal thier “ brethren “ through ishmael and Hagar

“And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; and with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth. And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭9:9-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you see here a new covenant made with Noah and his sons from which all people came from one of those three lines of people Shem ham and japeth.

From japeths line came gentiles

“Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭10:1-2, 5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

From hand line came forth the canaanites

“And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan. And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth, and the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭10:6, 15, 18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And from shems line came Abraham the Hebrew and the nation of isreal.

“Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born. The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram. These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations. These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭10:21-22, 31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood: And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran. Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭11:10, 26-27‬ ‭

So you have the whole worlds nations divided into three groups based on the blessing and cirse of Noah upon his three sons

“And he said, Cursed be Canaan; A servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. ( ishmaels line )

And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; ( Abraham’s line ) And Canaan shall be his servant.

God shall enlarge Japheth, And he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; ( gentiles would dwell with Abraham’s line in blessing ) And Canaan shall be his servant.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭9:25-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

three groups of people Abraham’s line , gentiles who would be later joined with Abraham’s line and canaans line would be cursed

SilverFox7 · Oct 27, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

That's some good context, Pilgrim, to understand Abraham's family line being traced back to Shem and ultimately Noah. I was looking at what Paul had to say about Abraham as well:

Abraham Justified by Faith

1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father[a] has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.

Paul uses Abraham as an example of the faith and grace focus he covers in chapter 3, especially how we as Christians are "...justified freely by His [God's] grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood through faith..." (Rom. 3: 24-25). We are redeemed from our slavery to sin by the blood of Jesus, who is our bridge to the Mercy Seat where we receive grace and forgiveness.

Paul goes on to ask the questions, "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith" (v. 27). We are justified by having "faith in Jesus" (v. 26), not by any feeble works we try to generate by our effort and strength. Faith and grace come from God, and that's what provides our power to produce fruit to the glory of God.

"Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3). Paul uses financial language here to make a point: Abraham's belief "...was accounted to him for righteousness," which comes from God and not by any efforts we attempt to justify our actions and exalt ourselves through self-righteousness. Belief sets the ball rolling in motion for a faith and grace-based relationship with Jesus Christ, our source for Godly righteousness. It's a gift. We can't earn this, and all the credit goes to God.

JaumeJ · Oct 27, 2024

Abraham may be translated wholly as "Father of nations." Honored Father of the peoples is also accepted.
Two more names translated are quite prophetic, Jesse (my redeemer), and his son, David (beloved).
The Beloved has a never-ending Throne. That is David will have a Son on His Throne forever.

Pilgrimshope · Oct 27, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

Amen I like to also look at James for more understanding regarding faith and Abraham’s justification regarding what Paul’s saying there

“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can that faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, ( words ) Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; ( without actions ) what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

( the devils and demons also know Jesus is Lord )

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

( this part about Abraham having righteousness imputed to him )

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14-24, 26‬ ‭

did you notice this part ?

“Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?”

Look what happened after Abraham obeyed and acted in faith regarding the figure of the sons sacrifice and root of the term “ the lamb of God “

“And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, and said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: ( Abraham’s action his deed what he did mattered here the lord says because you did this )

that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore;

and thy seed shall possess the gate of his ( singular his not many thier ) enemies; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is one of the beginning promises of our covenant in the son. and what the apostles are discussing like James above or Paul here

“Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. ( genesis 12)

So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. …Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:6-9, 16, 23-27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law of faith will lead to repentance and right living , right actions or what some call “ works “ deeds ect we do stuff every day we do works all day every day whether those are good or evil works matters and result in two different ends

The Bible talks a lot about this but looking at what he’s saying he’s referring to the promise given to Abraham father of many nations when he offered his only son ( ishmael wasn’t recognized after he was cast away )

SilverFox7 · Nov 2, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

I think you just cemented a plan I have in mind, brother, on my next study to do a comparison/contrast on the book of Ecclesiastes and James' epistle. They share some common themes like the importance of diligence and fall into the category of "wisdom literature." As much as I love Luther, I don't share his feelings towards James where he referred to it as an "epistle of straw." I understand he was in a huge conflict with the Catholic church of his time that was works-based and focused on generating as much revenue as possible for Rome. But like we've discussed in the past, I think many in the Church struggle reconciling the law (works) vs. grace (love) concept. It's not a competition between the two - Christ changed all of that with the covenant written in His blood.

The verses you quoted from James are outstanding and build upon Paul's commentary as well. If righteous actions aren't being manifested in our lives as Christ's disciples, then our faith is "dead" or at least dormant. Any "works" we manifest by our own strength are vanity because the focus often is selfish and what we can gain from our effort. Yes, we might "give" and "serve" which are certainly positive attributes, but if our motive is to impress others, seek advancement, desire more attention and material gain, we are missing the point. As you and James note, "faith without works is dead." The works being referred to here and by Paul come through the power of the Holy Spirit generating fruit in our lives, the "work" of God in and through us.

I had to go back and take a look at Abraham's remarkable expression of faith/works in Genesis 22, and I'll need to break this up into a few postings because there are some remarkable insights that fit in nicely with our "Christ is God" focus in this forum (YHWH Yireh - Almighty God our Eternal Provider):

Genesis 22:1-3

New King James Version

Abraham’s Faith Confirmed

22 Now it came to pass after these things that God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!”
And he said, “Here I am.”

2 Then He said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”

3 So Abraham rose early in the morning and saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son; and he split the wood for the burnt offering, and arose and went to the place of which God had told him.

God tested Abraham? Why does God need to test any of us if He knows our thoughts and intentions? There are different opinions out there, but I think it has to do with our free will. We're not robots that have been programmed, and we have been given the ability to make choices such as will we obey God or not. That's up to us, and Abraham set an excellent example by not apparently questioning God (at least directly). He said, "Here I am" and did exactly what God directed. I have to be honest and say that has not been my response in my relationship with God always. I'm a lot like Lot, Abraham's nephew, who says "oh, not so my Lord..." to some of God's ideas for me.

It's not like it's a one way relationship where God commands and we listen and obey. That's ideal, of course, like Abraham did because He knows what's best for us. But God is open to our desires and ideas, and He is willing to be flexible like He was with Moses on more than one occasion during their relationship in the wilderness. Nevertheless, I look at the example of faith that Abraham expressed here, and it shows me God has a lot of work to do yet in my stubborn heart to allow His faith to flow through me and follow wherever He leads. I would be saying, "are you crazy God? There is no way I am going to kill my beloved son." Yet, that is exactly what Abraham was willing to do and "rose early in the morning" to carry out what God intended, knowing that God ultimately would manifest His Providence.

JaumeJ · Nov 2, 2024

I always think back to when Abraham offered up his son, his only son as an offering to God

Hw when Isaac asked him where is the sacrifice for the offering, to which Abraham retorted, "God will provide Himself, a Lam b for the offering."

When the Angel stopped Abraham from slaying his son at the last moment, he espied a ram caught in a thicket by it hornw The ram was offered up as a sacrifice, however God had yet to provide His Lamb for the offering. We all know when this came about, praise God, amen.

I almost forgot, the ram in the thicket was no error, it was mentioned for those who know.

Pilgrimshope · Nov 2, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

“The works being referred to here and by Paul come through the power of the Holy Spirit generating fruit in our lives, the "work" of God in and through us.”

Yea brother all glory to god in our words and praises but im saying this At some point we have to actually obey what we’ve been taught by the lord that will save us though. As long as we’re waiting for God to magically change us the whole time he’s calling for us to come

of course salvation comes from Jesus it comes when we hear and believe him

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63, 68-69‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to hear the gospel and let faith come in it changes our hearts and minds which then later results in changed actions, like your saying like fruit it doesn’t just happen we have to change our stance towards God for it to happen through bekieving ehat Jesus is teaching man about God saying believe and you’ll be saved ….

faith isn’t mysterious it’s an operation of Gods through believing the gospel his word. it’s really well explained by the apostles and Jesus

we have to believe what Jesus said brother it creates just as in the beginning new minds and hearts in us but we have to be willing to hear the things he’s telling us to do and stop doing also that’s how we change !!

when we start becoming a disciple and start treating jesus as Lord. When we do that he calls us friends .

his promises come with instructions offering it and promising it . Im all for giving God tbe glory amen but there’s a reason his word repeatedly says what we need to stop doing and start doing why he says we’re going to be judged on our own deeds be held accountable for our own words and actions.

It’s because that’s what we’re supposed to believe ….

In the end we should praise the lord for his good works for us and give him glory in our words always but at some point we actually need to take the initiative and responsability of a Christian also

Im of course not saying this of you or anyone here but just in general as a Christian . our deeds what we actually do good or bad seems pretty important business regarding our destiny and reward

“Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭

so In the end when I stand before the lord ……do I say well lord everything your saying is my fault and judging me for as if I did it ……is just because you didn’t do it through me ?

in the gospel this is a recurring teaching of Jesus to his disciples that believes in him it has nothing to do with works of the law , it’s all about the gospel what Jesus of Nazareth actually taught his followers

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, ( instruction ) and ye shall not be judged:( result if obeyed ) condemn not, ( instruction) and ye shall not be condemned: ( result if obeyed )

forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.

For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-38, 46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

glf · Nov 2, 2024

posthuman said:

Jn 1: 14:
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Is 9: 6-7:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Mt 1: 23:
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

SilverFox7 · Nov 3, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

That's a good point, Pilgrim, and I certainly hope I didn't imply that we just sit back and let God do all the work through us. It's a partnership and more importantly a relationship, and relationships become dysfunctional and don't last unless both parties are doing their fair share of the work. I can tell you from first hand experience that the Holy Spirit has worked best in me when I'm praying, studying, fellow-shipping, attending worship service, and finding ways to serve others.

When I become lax on my end by neglecting my part in this relationship, the Holy Spirit is not as effective because I'm not making the effort. That's when old habits and behaviors start creeping back into the equation. That's my fault, not God's. I can't blame Him because He's provided all the tools I need to develop a close relationship with Christ and serve Him, which is the commitment I made when I believed, was baptized, and became a disciple. Salvation is a gift from God, no doubt, yet like you express there are responsibilities I have to follow and obey my Lord as well.

Look at Abraham - he expressed his active faith by taking a three day journey to the mountain the Lord specified to offer his son as a burnt offering. What must have been going through Abraham's mind during the three days? Whatever doubt and dismay he may have been experiencing, there was still hope and faith at work, also:

Genesis 22:4-5

New King James Version

4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted his eyes and saw the place afar off. 5 And Abraham said to his young men, “Stay here with the donkey; the [a]lad and I will go yonder and worship, and we will come back to you.”

From the text we are given, all Abraham knew at this time was that Isaac was going to be sacrificed as a "burnt offering" (v.2). There is no indication up to this point that God was going to provide a substitute. However, Abraham told the young men traveling with them that he and Isaac were going to worship God, "...and we will come back to you." If all Abraham knew at that time was that Isaac was going to be a burnt offering, why would he add that we will come back to you? I think that shows Abraham trusted God and had the faith that God would intervene and reveal His plan for this ordeal, one that allowed both Abraham and Isaac to return safely to their traveling companions.

Pilgrimshope · Nov 3, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

Haha no brother I wasn’t meaning you implied anything just discussing

i used to be what I now would call a “hypergracer “ but I realized that didn’t change anything for me I stayed the same . Started wondering “ where is all the deliverance and freedom the Bible says we have ?

Started looking into it I’d go to a church and the pastor would quote a verse saying your free now you’ll never be judged ! And then preach a whole message about nonone ever being condemned

But I would see things in scripture directly warning about behavior and dorectly teaching right and wrong and the consequences of both

what I found out was there’s doctrine about all the short phrases we use like saying “ I’m free in Christ I know the truth “!

well I Noticed that when Jesus taught us how to be free there’s a condition to it

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭

So I began wondering why I hadn’t heard the part about where believers are supposed to continue in his doctrine but instead just everyone was told “ your free now “

I started wondering if I was getting the whole story and started seeing that constantly it’s the same Jesus tells us how to and promises if we do it’s when we believe him that faith moves

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭

eventually I realized it’s all that way then I understood why belief is the key

If I believe wrong I’m going to act wrong according to that belief so we need to hear the truth

Stuff like this is really lacking but really really important

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-

jesus is all about teaching man how to live right and inviting belief

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Nov 3, 2024

I take issue with the the expression God the father, God the son, God the spirit. Apart from God the father these terms are not found in scripture. Rather we see the son of God and the spirit of God. IMO there should be a comma between God and the father, ie, God, the father, because the term God always refers to the father, the source of everything.

The word, or son of God, is the visible form, or image, of the invisible God, ie, the father, through which he makes himself known to his creation.

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Colossians 1:15

The spirit of God is his power that orders, sustains and gives life to his creation.

All together they are one God

MeowFlower · Nov 3, 2024

Amen.

We all know this one.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and The Word was God.

.....

And The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

JaumeJ · Nov 3, 2024

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

In this quote from Isaiah, we know that the Child born to the virgin would have all the titles of Our Maker, thaqt is, the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.

This does not explain how our Maker is One, yet manifested in these three ways, but it crertainly underscores He is One, God.

I have always understood that this is a demonstration of what God said to Moses, the He will be What He will be, Yahweh means such.

In the OT God says He is sOne also, while in the NT Jesus Yshua declarees that He and the Father are One. This, by inference would include His Holy Spirit.

I believe all of this but I will not completely understand it until His time, His Day. All blessisngs and love in our Maker, amen.

SilverFox7 · Nov 5, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Amen..."and the truth will set [us] free..."!

Our belief needs to be centered upon Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, and the gospel. And, then it needs to be followed-up with action just like God told the Israelites to move forward through the parting walls of the sea during the Exodus.

Look at how strong Abraham's belief in God was during what had to be a time filled with doubt and despair that he may actually have to thrust the knife into his son:

Genesis 22:6-8

New King James Version

6 So Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife, and the two of them went together.

7 But Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!”
And he said, “Here I am, my son.”
Then he said, “Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the [a]lamb for a burnt offering?”

8 And Abraham said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.” So the two of them went together.

As far as we know up to this point, there is complete silence from God although the Holy Spirit had to be providing some comfort and strength. And, Abraham still had the belief that "God will provide for Himself the lamb," which is a foreshadowment of the greatest sacrifice to come - the Father sacrificing His only begotten Son for our sins.

Pilgrimshope · Nov 5, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

amen brother well put as we learn from Jesus ourselves in the gospel he begins to teach us to move and what type of actions to take and avoid. It’s part of kids really focusing on Jesus and hearing the gospel he preached to believers in him he eventually teaches us that we need to start applying what we believe to our life with our actions

“Our belief needs to be centered upon Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, and the gospel. And, then it needs to be followed-up with action just like God told the Israelites to move forward through the parting walls of the sea during the Exodus.”

exactly if we believe in God , then what he says will save us , will save us if we believe that should be the result and so obedience is just wise knowing this will save me ….and tbat other oath will destroy me . How am I so sure ? Jesus the Lord taught us in the gospel

but there’s milk for babes

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.( milk )

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned:

(Mmm milk )

but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See the equation there anyone who believes will live forever ,

anyone who doesn’t believe is condemned because they didn’t believe.

So to someone who believes in Jesus this is sure spiritual milk that begins to build our faith in God these words of Jesus himself explaining these simple summary points salvstion is simple like that when we focus on Jesus like your saying there and hearing the gospel.

peter tells us this milk makes us grow

“Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But even then we’re being Calle to a purpose and action that works with what’s being said here

1 “Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,”

2 desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

“if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.” ( Because we know of Gods graciousness and mercy )

it doesn’t end because we know Gods gracious but grace that saved us is the source and beginning of our new life in Christ.

Like children were born and don’t know much but we learn and grow and the father keeps us close and warm and safe nothing is really expected of a babe but to learn and behave as to what they know but they learn as they are growing and sometimes they do wrong not knowing

Eventually we have to grow up is my point depending on the individuals relationship between God and themselves the Milk makes strong. Ones and the meat and potatoes with a glass of milk makes a strong man of faith

“For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

hey brother let’s talk about melchezidek and Christ sometime ??

“So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, To day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever After the order of Melchisedec.

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:11

TheLearner · Nov 5, 2024

cool discussion all

Christ is God

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