Can't deny verse Hebrews 9:17. or are you saying that Christ died first before He started His ministry?
CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE
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Can't deny verse Hebrews 9:17. or are you saying that Christ died first before He started His ministry?
If it isn't applicable, then what's the purpose of God preserving it for us?
I think that love is a binding law and we are to be instructed how to do that. So here we have those instructions on how to love.
Leviticus 19:11-18 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Deuteronomy 5:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Ye shall observe to do therefore as the LORD your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
Deuteronomy 6:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
i'm not too sure what you are trying to tell me, but israel is blinded they are still under the old testament they can't recognise that Jesus came, but they were purposely blinded by God, all verse 17 says is the testament won't be of strength if the testator is still alive, when Jesus died that brought the new testament through his blood
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Originally Posted by just-me
If it isn't applicable, then what's the purpose of God preserving it for us?
I think that love is a binding law and we are to be instructed how to do that. So here we have those instructions on how to love.
Leviticus 19:11-18 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Deuteronomy 5:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Ye shall observe to do therefore as the LORD your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
Deuteronomy 6:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
again. that was the OT. and I guess all we can gather from the OT is that it did not work. Which is what the NT authors continued to show us.
Isreal continually failed. They continually did not obey him, They continually fell short. Yet God was continually long suffering..
And Again, As I showed above. If I look to the law of faith. What good does hte law do me? I do not need it if I am continually looking to God to supply all my needs and trust him completely.
It didn't work because of man's iniquity, not because of God's failure to make it right. I suppose that you will continue to believe that the Old Testament failed. I know that the Bible says it was weak, but God doesn't break covenants, we do.
What I'm saying is that the Word of God is pure, righteous and true in every detail. The way you describe things is like you're saying it was God who made the mistake, and not us. I know you don't believe that, but your description of things makes it sound as if you do. Sorry. Jesus' teachings were also Old Testament. That certainly doesn't mean that He taught something that was a failure also. Just saying brother. Hope you can see what I'm trying to convey to you.
To deny all God is telling you because it was before Christ lived in the year 30, to say Moses is not to be listened to any more when Christ said he was, to not listen to any of the book of James, is letting the devil into the church. I understand that you think it is teaching to listen to love and the spirit of the law. We need you to tell of that. But to take it so far you deny scripture, deny the Father, deny the words our God gave Moses, is going so far you cancel out all the good you do.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
1. Look at Isreal, It did fail. But God did not fail. He fulfilled the OT. Everything about the OT pointed to him.
2. It did not fail because of mans iniquity. It PROVED mans iniquity, so no one would have an excuse. And everyone would be held accountable
3. God did not break his covenant. The mosaic law was never intended to be given to help someone live righteous, or be saved, That was the abrahamic covenant (I will) which is a non conditional covenant and promise of the savior not based on man or what he did, But on God alone.
Wow. So this is what you take from me showing How God gave us a covenant to PROVE we would fail and show us our need for him, and it works, as God failing? You can not be serious now can you? The covenant did exactly what it was supposed to. be a SCHOOLMASTER
yep it was OT.
(Jesus talking) The OT shows who I am. Proves I am the one who would be sent, Says exactly what time on the worlds stage I would appear. Shows I will do the things I do by the work of God to PROVE I am him, And shows you that you need me, Because you have failed to live up to my just standard (the law)
Did God fail with the pharisees? No, they Ignored the OT prophesies, Ignored what it said about him (1st comming) Ignored the signs, why? they thought they were righteous by the law. They MISSED what the law was given for. Not to make us righteous, or tell us how to be right, otherwise we will get puffed up (like I see so many) BUT PROVE WE NEED THE MESSIAH, AND PROVE WHO HE WAS AND WHAT HE WOULD DO.
It also shows us
Why Isreal failed
Why The law was helpless
Why the men of God were right (not by the law. But because of their trust in God)
the great love and long suffering of God and his dealings with his people.
And help us learn by their mistakes. Which unfortunately. To many people continue to make the same mistakes they did. and still have not learned.
you all just ignored what i showed in the scripture at post #95 because you know it is the truth and have nothing to say against it so you just ignore it and continue living in your illusion, but your not doing me anything your actions are being wrote down i did share the gospel with you, you chose to not accept it nothing more i can do about that, your doing yourself more wrong by ignoring.. just pushing yourself even further away than you already are from God, in order for you to get even close to God must make your heart clean if you know your wrong just admit it God will reward you i'm sure, don't let a religious spirit take control of you
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cfultz3
Guest
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cfultz3
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cfultz3
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exactly what I was getting to. Love fulfills God's Law. The Law of the Spirit is Love. Follow Him and you are pleasing to God.
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cfultz3
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I finally understand when people say: have to spread the reputation around before giving it again to the same person......
I will try to explain the difficulty in debates and disagreement. I like what eternally-gratefull wrote in his last comment to a very large extent. Those who are advocating "grace" through Christ Jesus, are totally correct concerning grace. Where the problem has come from, being involved myself for months on Mosaic Law, is those same people, but not all, involve themselves in name calling like cultist, Judaizers, and legalists, etc. This extends to the people who don't involve themselves in name calling, but are coerced in choosing sides because of just a few. I have seen enlightenment and understanding to a limited extent from both sides. This means that talking about the truth of the matter is having some good effects, but I would say, more likely than not, it is having a more negative effect than a positive one. Those people, such as myself, feel that the entire Bible is of equal value to all people today, just as it has always been. I have never seen a legalist or a judaizer as they have been labelled, deny that Jesus Christ is the true Messiah. The Bible says that people who believe that are truly God's children, so the name calling is not the truth. Are we trying to edify, and be edified because we truly love one another, or are we saying we've fulfilled the law of love by name calling, and telling others that they are wrong simply because they esteem the Mosaic law as the Word of God? How do we think that our Father in heaven views this? I know there are many that are very sincere, and of a pure heart before God Almighty, but with that, please understand where the "seat of Satan" is. Please!
Revelation 2:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Revelation 2:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
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cfultz3
Guest
In so much the Old Covenant did not work, there was a need for a new one. There was a need to send in a new Testator.
But, nevertheless, God's Law (Love) still stands. But, like you have implied and I strongly agree, we do not need a written law to tell us what the Spirit tells us Himself.
IF WE LOVE, WE FULFILL THAT LAW.
i show my love for everyone of you everyday by showering you with the truth from the bible so that some people can turn from their ways, it's like scolding a child for doing wrong you scold him because you love him and don't want him to get out of order and do his own thing, how can someone say they know that Jesus christ is the true messiah and have a different theology on what we must do? it's only one truth not 1000s of different truth like what we have in the world today, don't you see? that is people thinking with their carnal mind, the fact that there is like 20 or more denominations tells us something THE HOLY SPIRIT IS MISSING no way someone born of God can look at his word and reject it, it's just not possible, i've seen so many different creeds even on this forum i saw some legalist making threads and saying " what is grace can a legalist be under it? " that alone should tell you something.. the problem is people not seeking christ with all their heart that would never come out of his mouth if he knew christ, not everyone who says Lord Lord actually knows God, the fruits of the holy spirit must be seen in everyone born of God that way you can tell
Please mark me if I am wrong in your opinion. Jesus sent the Comforter, (the Holy Spirit) and Jesus taught us by that same Spirit. Now eternally gratefull has said that the law and the prophets in the Word of God that we have today, is for instruction, and I agree. Now, the question would be, is it possible to understand the truth by the Spirit of God without the Word of God. The way I see it, is that the Word came first, and then sent the Spirit. Do we ignore the Word and listen to the Spirit only, or do the two go hand in hand? John 1:1 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Now God gave the Law to Moses and this verse says the "Word was God." Is that to be taken as past tense, and now today it's done away with? This might seem to be a loaded question, but I just want a more in-depth description on how you see it in detail. Thanks
gonna let this speak for itself..
[h=3]Galatians 3[/h]King James Version (KJV)
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[h=3]Galatians 3[/h]King James Version (KJV)
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
forgot to add this part..
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Hears the answer to your understanding when all else fails. Don't propagate contention by continuing to convince those who refuse to put all the Bible in complete context. Two scriptures define our proper reaction toward the character of others.
Matthew 7:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
2 Timothy 2:23-25 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Job 6:24-26 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
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cfultz3
Guest
Detail: The Spirit leads by God's Law (Love). God's Law is eternal and the Word did not come to have destroyed that.
God's Law (Love) says, "do not steal".
The Law of Sin says, "do not steal".
One was God's will all the while. The other has condemnation attached to it.
The Spirit leads by God's Law.
There are two sets of Laws: God's Law and the Law of sin.
Obedience is to the Spirit and not to the Letter.