Christ was tempted LIKE as we are, but He never desired or was tempted to do evil.

[Brainfreeze]

The word "incapable" makes it sound like He is a subject, or somehow powerless in an area.
How about we leave it at, "He would never".

His capability is not in doubt, and His character is steadfast.
I'm not sure if you agree with me, but perhaps this is an area where we can come to some unity?

Jason won't agree... He says Jesus CANT... I say He won't ... But He will USE bad intentions
" of others who intend harm or evil " for something to glorify Him in the end. Shows throughout the Bible... He doesn't have to think or do evil, we do it, and He uses us to serve His purpose, meaning we serve Him regardless...

 

[Brainfreeze]

These are a copy of the same prophecy... Click on the links... They're the same,
I was referring to the first one... You posted the second one twice..
Mathematical Bible Prophecy
it says " the 70th week " is a FUTURE event...

And really I don't have a problem with these prophecies... Except for them saying it still holds to future apocalypse. Where we get confusion is with this gematria stuff... Do you agree with that as redtent, mem, and others ? Actually changing letters to numbers and I don't mean six to 6 ... I mean cross to 345## ... That is where the confusion came in, now if you don't do this my apology stands... Your a nice guy Jason, please don't put words in people's mouth or twist something when it shows your wrong... Just say hey, I'm wrong, as I am doing with the numbers, they have relevance where it's needed, and scripture applies, not changing every letter in the Whole Bible to numbers. I will drop the external talk when you say hey, my apologies everyone... I'm WRONG..

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I am not expecting you to agree with me. What I know is that Christ is holy, undefiled, separate from sinners. What I know is that Jesus is God and Jesus is good and incapable of sinning or doing wrong. I don't need a Bible, or Strong's Concordance + Lexicon, or KJV Dictionary to tell me Christ is pure like the spotless Passover Lamb. But my Bible does confirm it, though.

Christ is holy and undefiled because he resisted temptation.

Jesus is good - Why did Jesus say: Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matt. 19:17; Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19)

By your reasoning Jesus was "tested" like a "math test" . . . . So when Satan tempted him it was to "test" him on his knowledge of the scripture?

Yes, Jesus was our pure, spotless Passover Lamb. Jesus resisted temptation and we are to follow his example. If God's word says Jesus was tempted in all things like as we are then He was tempted . . . . yet he was without sin. If it is noted that he was without sin - then he could have sinned.

 

[SolidGround]

I will use human argument here, as human logic is what this debate comes down to (because the Word is clear on the subject)
I do understand what Jason means by "internal temptation" (even though it is not a Biblical theory),
but internal temptation comes from setting ones own maxims beyond what one deems moral,
and then needing to reset those maxims (which is where we all fail, when we recognize a sin, yet do it)
Jesus NEVER let his maxims (self limits) exceed His morals, and His morals were pure, therefore He remained pure.
So in this sense, the temptation was not to RETURN to a known sin ("known" is used in the Biblical, intimate sense. As in prior experience), but to explore another possible path.

Temptation is when we are presented with an option that extends beyond our morals (which all men have been given through the knowledge of good and evil), and yet seems beneficial (at least short term). For the rest of us, temptation is often within the bounds of our maxims, yet outside the bounds of our morals, which makes it TEMPTING because we have done similar things in the past, even though our conscience currently says NO!

For Christ, temptation was beyond both His morals AND His maxims, as He had never set His maxims beyond His morals. We experience this when we say "but I would NEVER do THAT",
except sometimes we do.

Christ certainly saw the benefits of Satan's temptations, but did not fall prey to them. If He never saw benefits in them, they would not have been temptations at all.

Do you know what Satan offered?
A way out.
He offered Christ a free pass of the Cross to obtain the prophecies Kingdom.
Why go through death, when I can just hand you all of it?
As in, I'll concede if you concede in just this one little thing.

But our Saviour resisted!

When Satan offers you a free pass at obtaining your goal, do you concede for what is readily available,
or do you wait upon the Lord?
Look at the prosperity teachers. Did they concede?
Look within ourselves. Have we conceded?
Yes.
But Christ did not.

It was a struggle, but a Holy struggle, and a pure and Glorious victory.
Remember, the spotless lamb still needs to be a lamb.
It can't be a spotless replica of a lamb. That has no value.
Christ has infinite value.

(Long post. Sorry guys. If I had time, I could probably have come up with a way to sum it all up in 3 sentences. Please respond with any questions about maxims vs morals in a pm, as it will derail the thread)

 

[SolidGround]

Secondary thought.
We are born depraved, and this is the source of our "internal" temptation.
Jesus was not born depraved, as He was born not of a man, but of God, like the first Adam.

Is depravity a sin itself, or is depravity a propensity towards committing sin?
Struggling with a temptation is not sin, as the struggle is Holy.
Depravity is not about struggle with sin, but about us being so depraved that we give in (often without a fight, or even willfully).
Losing the struggle is sin.
As depraved beings, we cannot win the struggle.

With the Spirit of Christ within us, we can claim victory, and win in these struggles.

Does the Word not tell us to fight against sin? Is this fight not a holy fight?

To notice a beautiful woman is not a sin. To gaze at her becomes sin, as we lost the struggle already, and stumbled into lust.

Christ did not ever gaze lustfully at a woman,
but He also wasn't born blind.

Christ relates to us.

 

[Ella85]

To sum it all up............it comes down to control.
Christ had extremely good self control. He was wiser than anyone that walked the planet, and He knew things we do not know.

Christ knew all consequences that comes along with being a sinner.
Hence why He was not a sinner, He knew ALL.

If we knew ALL then we probably wouldn't either!
But we don't that's why we fail daily!

 

[Jason0047]

The word "incapable" makes it sound like He is a subject, or somehow powerless in an area.

Many cultures and different upbringings will make folks look at words differently. I understand that. However, my life experience culture says this is not true with the word incapable in relation to the Lord. For it is not wrong to say that God is not capable of doing evil ever. However, it is your belief that Jesus can potentially do evil that renders God powerless or in not being God anymore. See, you can't say Jesus is God then turn around say that He has the capacity to do wrong. It would be a contradiction and it would be confusion of who God is. God is Holy and perfect in everything He does. So if Jesus could possibly do evil, then He is no longer God. Either the Lord our God is the Eternal Holy God who is always good and perfect in everything He does 100% of the time (with no capacity to fail or do wrong) or He is not.

How about we leave it at, "He would never".

How about no. Such a statement is avoiding the issue. Hence, why you said...." How about we leave it at, ~ "He would never" ~ " (Which means, you are ignoring the more important issue at hand). For if Jesus had the capacity to do evil, then you need to preach that boldly from the roof tops because it is true. You should not be ashamed of the truth. But you should proclaim the truth boldly. But I believe that if you were to do that, you would be preaching another Christ, my friend (Because there is not one verse that suggests Jesus could have failed or that He had the capacity to do evil - Note: Hebrews 4:15 & it's related passage on the word "tempt" cannot be used as an iron clad case to prove your belief on this because the origin of the word can be defined as "tested." - Which then takes on a whole new different meaning; For even Modern Translations have rendered the word "tempted" as "tested").

Anyways, one of the factors that God is God is that not only is perfect and moraly good 100% of the time (With no capacity to do bad), but if God said such and such was going to happen and it came to pass, you would know that He was God. This was how the Israelites would know a false prophet from a real prophet. God's prophecies or promises always come to pass. See, Jesus said to his disciples that He was going to the cross and that he was going to be resurrected 3 days later. This was not a statement of "IF" or "MAYBE" it was going to happen, but a statement of "FACT" that whatever God says will come to pass without fail and with pin point accuracy.

For Jesus said in John 13:19,

"Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he."

We see in verse 33 (John 13:19), Jesus then alludes to his 3 days within the grave. Which He knows for a "FACT" will come to pass because He is God. But your version of Jesus would be thinking this to Himself after saying something like that, "Well, I don't know..... maybe this will come to pass.... I am not sure.... I struggle with resisting evil.... etc." But that would not be the Jesus of the Bible. Verse 19, Jesus says these things to his disciples so that they may believe that He is the "I AM."

Also see John 14:28-29, too.

His capability is not in doubt, and His character is steadfast.
I'm not sure if you agree with me, but perhaps this is an area where we can come to some unity?

At it's core.... I want you to trace the origin of what you think could make the Holy Son of God to potentially do evil?


(Side Note: I am not shouting in any emotion with the "Caps letters" within this post here. Merely emphasizing).

 

[dcontroversal]

Did you say this... Jason ?






??? Numbers in the form of words??? Whatever just happened to 40 days of trial ?

Don't worry as he is the King of contradictions and denial of words........one minute trying to prove a heretical point and the next saying the point is moot........

 

[dcontroversal]

This is the definition out of Strong's:

peirazo - 1. to try whether a thing can be done; to attempt, endeavor 2. to try, make trial of, test: for the purpose of ascertaining his quality, or what he thinks, or how he will behave himself; a. in a good sense; b.in a bad sense, 3. to test one maliciously, craftily to put to the proof his feelings or judgments; 4. to try or test one's faith, virtue, character, by enticement to sin; a. to solicit to sin, to tempt; b. of the temptations of the devil

I don't agree with you.

Well truth be known most don't agree with him as he is all over the board...constantly contradicts himself and scripture, rejects words in context, denies the truth, argues points he cant prove and then turns around saying the points he is trying to argue are moot when asked like 20 times for scripture which he does not have........!

 

[Jason0047]

Jason won't agree... He says Jesus CANT... I say He won't ... But He will USE bad intentions
" of others who intend harm or evil " for something to glorify Him in the end. Shows throughout the Bible... He doesn't have to think or do evil, we do it, and He uses us to serve His purpose, meaning we serve Him regardless...

It's.basic Cause and Effect and it is at answer to Who Jesus is at the core.

 

[Jason0047]

And really I don't have a problem with these prophecies... Except for them saying it still holds to future apocalypse. Where we get confusion is with this gematria stuff... Do you agree with that as redtent, mem, and others ? Actually changing letters to numbers and I don't mean six to 6 ... I mean cross to 345## ... That is where the confusion came in, now if you don't do this my apology stands... Your a nice guy Jason, please don't put words in people's mouth or twist something when it shows your wrong... Just say hey, I'm wrong, as I am doing with the numbers, they have relevance where it's needed, and scripture applies, not changing every letter in the Whole Bible to numbers. I will drop the external talk when you say hey, my apologies everyone... I'm WRONG..

Yes, sorry I provided a double of the same link. This is the correct link to the 1st fulfilled prophecy (Which is in relation to the triumphant entry):

Mathematical Bible Prophecy

However, the site does not propose a specific date or day in the future that a certain prophecy is going to be fulfilled by Bible Numbers (Of which I think you aware of now).

But no. I do not agree with Redtent and others in turning letters into numbers as you have illustrated above. I believe that doing such a thing we be going beyond what God would want us to do for Him. But no need to apologize. You already forgiven and loved by me no matter what disagreements we might have.

Love, peace, and blessings be unto you this day, my friend.

 

[Jason0047]

Well truth be known most don't agree with him as he is all over the board...constantly contradicts himself and scripture, rejects words in context, denies the truth, argues points he cant prove and then turns around saying the points he is trying to argue are moot when asked like 20 times for scripture which he does not have........!

Hebrews & other related passages on the word "tempt" can be defined as "tested" (Which changes the meaning beyond tempt). In other words, the passages that mention the word "tempt" are not an iron clad case for saying Jesus can potentially do evil or to potentially fail. In order to convince me, and or anyone who desires to be a good Berean, you are going to have to find another set of verses that say Jesus could potentially sin and that He could fail in His mission.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hebrews & other related passages on the word "tempt" can be defined as "tested" (Which changes the meaning beyond tempt). In other words, the passages that mention the word "tempt" are not an iron clad case for saying Jesus can potentially do evil or to potentially fail. In order to convince me, and or anyone who desires to be a good Berean, you are going to have to find another set of verses that say Jesus could potentially sin and that He could fail in His mission.

First of all your not Berean and it has been proven by everyone in this thread who has posted numerous scriptures in context....you, being unable to admit error have done the following...
1. Try to divide temptation into internal and external...when asked for scriptures which you cannot dig up you change course and said it was a moot point after you posted like 100 posts arguing your moot point.
2. You deny the Greek definitions and verses which contradict your view.
3. You add to and or twist what is said by those who disagree with you and try to say that we say Jesus sinned or did evil or had an evil nature because he was ENTICED in ALL POINTS LIKE AS WE ARE.
4. You take the word LIKE and twist it to try and make it mean something that it does not mean
5. You devalue the temptation of JESUS failing to understand why he was TEMPTED, SCRUTINIZED, TESTED in the first place
6. You erroneously miss the value of the temptation of Jesus.
7. You erroneously devalue the scriptures that teach about the temptation of Jesus while attempting to trump them with other verses of scripture which does not jive with the word of God as the word does NOT trump itself as it ALL goes together.
8. GOOD BEREANS are OPEN TO LEARNING AND INSTRUCTION of the which you are not

So....your Jesus is not the Jesus of the bible....no mater how you slice it and dice it Jason!

 

[Jason0047]

Christ is holy and undefiled because he resisted temptation.

Jesus is good - Why did Jesus say: Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matt. 19:17; Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19)

By your reasoning Jesus was "tested" like a "math test" . . . . So when Satan tempted him it was to "test" him on his knowledge of the scripture?

Yes, Jesus was our pure, spotless Passover Lamb. Jesus resisted temptation and we are to follow his example. If God's word says Jesus was tempted in all things like as we are then He was tempted . . . . yet he was without sin. If it is noted that he was without sin - then he could have sinned.

Satan did not know 100% for sure if Jesus was the Holy Son of God yet. That was the whole purpose of the test. The devil was testing Jesus to see if He was the Holy Son of God. For Satan said, "If you are God's Son... (Do such and such)." In other words, Satan would not say this to Jesus if He knew He was the Son of God. It was a test of his identity (Of which later Satan does not bother to test him again to see if He is the Son of God or not). In fact, later, the demons then recognized Jesus as the Son of God (Matthew 8:29); Whereas before, Satan was questioning that fact (No doubt because he didn't know yet). But after Satan tested Christ, he discovered by testing him that this was the Son of God by which he would have then informed his minions (Whereby they would have recognized him).

 

[Jason0047]

Satan did not know 100% for sure if Jesus was the Holy Son of God yet. That was the whole purpose of the test. The devil was testing Jesus to see if He was the Holy Son of God. For Satan said, "If you are God's Son... (Do such and such)." In other words, Satan would not say this to Jesus if He knew He was the Son of God. It was a test of his identity (Of which later Satan does not bother to test him again to see if He is the Son of God or not). In fact, later, the demons then recognized Jesus as the Son of God (Matthew 8:29); Whereas before, Satan was questioning that fact (No doubt because he didn't know yet). But after Satan tested Christ, he discovered by testing him that this was the Son of God by which he would have then informed his minions (Whereby they would have recognized him).

Dear PB:

In other words, if I did not believe you were the actual user named "Peaceful Believer", I would then try to test to see if you were "Peaceful Believer" from your previous behavior and remarks. I would say, "If you are 'Peaceful Believer' then what would you do in this situation and or if you are PB, then what do yoh believe on this topic?"

That is what I believe Satan was doing. He was trying to figure out the identity of Christ.

 

[Jason0047]

First of all your not Berean and it has been proven by everyone in this thread who has posted numerous scriptures in context....you, being unable to admit error have done the following...
1. Try to divide temptation into internal and external...when asked for scriptures which you cannot dig up you change course and said it was a moot point after you posted like 100 posts arguing your moot point.
2. You deny the Greek definitions and verses which contradict your view.
3. You add to and or twist what is said by those who disagree with you and try to say that we say Jesus sinned or did evil or had an evil nature because he was ENTICED in ALL POINTS LIKE AS WE ARE.
4. You take the word LIKE and twist it to try and make it mean something that it does not mean
5. You devalue the temptation of JESUS failing to understand why he was TEMPTED, SCRUTINIZED, TESTED in the first place
6. You erroneously miss the value of the temptation of Jesus.
7. You erroneously devalue the scriptures that teach about the temptation of Jesus while attempting to trump them with other verses of scripture which does not jive with the word of God as the word does NOT trump itself as it ALL goes together.
8. GOOD BEREANS are OPEN TO LEARNING AND INSTRUCTION of the which you are not

So....your Jesus is not the Jesus of the bible....no mater how you slice it and dice it Jason!

You do realize that I will not read a person's post if I believe that all they are truly interested in is just slamming me and or if they fail to mention Scripture that I am specifically looking for. In other words, if you provide some new verses that say Jesus could potentially sin and or fail in his mission, I would look at them and then give you my thoughts on those verses. But if you are going to just breathe fire at me, I am just going to put up my shield of faith and love you where you at and just move on.

In other words, your efforts in writing to me are wasted if you continue with your same ole approach of Condemnation instead of discussing the Bible in love and respect.

 

[hopesprings]

Satan did not know 100% for sure if Jesus was the Holy Son of God yet. That was the whole purpose of the test. The devil was testing Jesus to see if He was the Holy Son of God. For Satan said, "If you are God's Son... (Do such and such)." In other words, Satan would not say this to Jesus if He knew He was the Son of God. It was a test of his identity (Of which later Satan does not bother to test him again to see if He is the Son of God or not). In fact, later, the demons then recognized Jesus as the Son of God (Matthew 8:29); Whereas before, Satan was questioning that fact (No doubt because he didn't know yet). But after Satan tested Christ, he discovered by testing him that this was the Son of God by which he would have then informed his minions (Whereby they would have recognized him).

Satan knew who Jesus was when he tempted him

 

[Jason0047]

Satan knew who Jesus was when he tempted him

He probably suspected it, but I don't think he knew for sure until after he tested him.

For why would he taunt God with his identity in saying, "If you are God's Son, then (do such and such)"?

 

[dcontroversal]

You do realize that I will not read a person's post if I believe that all they are truly interested in is just slamming me and or if they fail to mention Scripture that I am specifically looking for. In other words, if you provide some new verses that say Jesus could potentially sin and or fail in his mission, I would look at them and then give you my thoughts on those verses. But if you are going to just breathe fire at me, I am just going to put up my shield of faith and love you where you at and just move on.

In other words, your efforts in writing to me are wasted if you continue with your same ole approach of Condemnation instead of discussing the Bible in love and respect.

Jason...Have you noticed anything about yourself? ALL have seen your inability to actually discuss and be open to the bible as it is impossible to discuss the bible with someone who will not acknowledge the truth and in the end you are a prime example of the verse applied in this matter....that wisdom is justified of her children....I suggest 2nd Corinthians 6 and being ENLARGED I.E. OPEN to learning and instruction...serious! So lets recap....

1. Two sets of scriptures in context that prove internal external temptation
2. Now after proving temptation and ALL POINTs by scriptures you have switched gears and are using TESTING or TEST
3. The devil did not approach Jesus to tempt him as it was the SPIRIT OF GOD THAT LED JESUS into the wilderness to be TEMPTED 40 days and at the end of the 40 days we have the account of the following final attempts by Satan to get Jesus to FAIL

1. Bread-->lust of the flesh
2. Temple pinnacle --->pride of life
3. Kingdoms of the world--->lust of the eyes

You have rejected the word which states that Christ EMPTIED himself and taken upon himself the form of a servant and substituted the inspired word with SUPPRESSED.

Jason, you reject truth and are unapproachable with the word of God as you continually reject the truth in favor of your own theology....are you even saved as a saved child of God will be open to learning and instruction and will humble himself when proven wrong of the which you have been by almost everyone who has posted in this thread!

 

[Jason0047]

You do realize that I will not read a person's post if I believe that all they are truly interested in is just slamming me and or if they fail to mention Scripture that I am specifically looking for. In other words, if you provide some new verses that say Jesus could potentially sin and or fail in his mission, I would look at them and then give you my thoughts on those verses. But if you are going to just breathe fire at me, I am just going to put up my shield of faith and love you where you at and just move on.

In other words, your efforts in writing to me are wasted if you continue with your same ole approach of Condemnation instead of discussing the Bible in love and respect.

Dear DC:

To put it to you another way, if you continue to write in an insulting way and you do not provide any new verses to prove your case, your post will go unread, my friend. Meaning, it would be a waste of your time in writing to me if you continue with the same method you have been employing.

Anyways, I love you in Jesus Christ.
And peace and love from the Lord be unto you.