Christ was tempted LIKE as we are, but He never desired or was tempted to do evil.

[Jason0047]

Jason...Have you noticed anything about yourself? ALL have seen your inability to actually discuss and be open to the bible as it is impossible to discuss the bible with someone who will not acknowledge the truth and in the end you are a prime example of the verse applied in this matter....that wisdom is justified of her children....I suggest 2nd Corinthians 6 and being ENLARGED I.E. OPEN to learning and instruction...serious! So lets recap....

1. Two sets of scriptures in context that prove internal external temptation
2. Now after proving temptation and ALL POINTs by scriptures you have switched gears and are using TESTING or TEST
3. The devil did not approach Jesus to tempt him as it was the SPIRIT OF GOD THAT LED JESUS into the wilderness to be TEMPTED 40 days and at the end of the 40 days we have the account of the following final attempts by Satan to get Jesus to FAIL

1. Bread-->lust of the flesh
2. Temple pinnacle --->pride of life
3. Kingdoms of the world--->lust of the eyes

You have rejected the word which states that Christ EMPTIED himself and taken upon himself the form of a servant and substituted the inspired word with SUPPRESSED.

Jason, you reject truth and are unapproachable with the word of God as you continually reject the truth in favor of your own theology....are you even saved as a saved child of God will be open to learning and instruction and will humble himself when proven wrong of the which you have been by almost everyone who has posted in this thread!

Speaking of 2 Corinthians: It actually proves my point on the word "tempt" in being "tested." The Greek word "peirazo" for the English word "tempted" (Strong's G3985), says in 2 Corinthians 13:5 that the English word "Examine" is the same Greek word "peirazo" (Strong's G3985).

For 2 Corinthians 13:5 says, "Examine yourselves whether or not you be in the faith...".

In other words, the word "tempted" is defined as examined (Which is to test).

 

[Jason0047]

Speaking of 2 Corinthians: It actually proves my point on the word "tempt" in being "tested." The Greek word "peirazo" for the English word "tempted" (Strong's G3985), says in 2 Corinthians 13:5 that the English word "Examine" is the same Greek word "peirazo" (Strong's G3985).

For 2 Corinthians 13:5 says, "Examine yourselves whether or not you be in the faith...".

In other words, the word "tempted" is defined as examined (Which is to test).

Dear DC:

This means you cannot prove your case as being full proof based off of the verses that mention the English word "tempted." So you have to find another set of passages that say Jesus had the potential to sin and or to fail in His mission.

 

[Jason0047]

Secondary thought.
We are born depraved, and this is the source of our "internal" temptation.
Jesus was not born depraved, as He was born not of a man, but of God, like the first Adam.

Is depravity a sin itself, or is depravity a propensity towards committing sin?
Struggling with a temptation is not sin, as the struggle is Holy.
Depravity is not about struggle with sin, but about us being so depraved that we give in (often without a fight, or even willfully).
Losing the struggle is sin.
As depraved beings, we cannot win the struggle.

With the Spirit of Christ within us, we can claim victory, and win in these struggles.

Does the Word not tell us to fight against sin? Is this fight not a holy fight?

To notice a beautiful woman is not a sin. To gaze at her becomes sin, as we lost the struggle already, and stumbled into lust.

Christ did not ever gaze lustfully at a woman,
but He also wasn't born blind.

Christ relates to us.

If man was innocent at birth, then God could have saved the Elect by just taken them home as babies. But Adam passed down death (sin) to the entire human race that was born of the male seed. Yet, Jesus was born of the seed of the woman (where the sin of Adam is not passed down). For it interesting that medically, the blood of a baby comes from the male. Jesus has pure blood because Hebrews 7:26 says Jesus is separate from sinners, holy, and undefiled. In other words if you believe Jesus had a sin nature, or carnal flesh, or free will to potentially do evil, then how can you say he is not defiled? Did not Jesus say a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and vise versa?

 

[dcontroversal]

Whatever dude!<----oops hope that didn't offend you....doesn't matter what anyone posts as you deny and reject in favor of your own theology...go read back thru this thread and see how you twist and turn, change direction, oppose scripture in context, deny words and the very reason Jesus was tempted....like I said...not only do you take the cake, but you also burn the candles all the way down to the frosting!

Good luck with your Jesus.......!

 

[Jason0047]

Whatever dude!<----oops hope that didn't offend you....doesn't matter what anyone posts as you deny and reject in favor of your own theology...go read back thru this thread and see how you twist and turn, change direction, oppose scripture in context, deny words and the very reason Jesus was tempted....like I said...not only do you take the cake, but you also burn the candles all the way down to the frosting!

Good luck with your Jesus.......!

I didn't see any new verses to prove your case in Jesus potentially doing evil and or to fail in his mission, so I did not read your post here. New verses have to be presented in order for me to not to ignore your post. In other words, why write something to me that you know I will not read it for not meeting a basic requirement in Bible discussion?

 

[Brainfreeze]

He probably suspected it, but I don't think he knew for sure until after he tested him.

For why would he taunt God with his identity in saying, "If you are God's Son, then (do such and such)"?

The number thing is fairly new to me, and you do see how that can lead to other things quickly, I didn't see you rejecting what others were saying, so I assumed you agreed to their philosophy. I would use a disclaimer " in your study " that you don't promote changing letters to numbers, just to keep things crystal clear.

As for Satan, I believe, he has power...
6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it." 8The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."…

So we know the fallen angels and satan, can go before the gates of heaven and talk to God as God calls them. God didn't ask for satan to go observe my servant Job, He asked if satan had " considered " His servant Job, meaning satan already knew who Job was. I'm sure satan knew who Jesus was but couldn't do anything in his power to harm Him. Satan could only question Jesus, and try to get Him to throw the towel in, either take " the world " or " throw Himself off a cliff ". Jesus wasn't having anything satan was offering, and was offering satan gold instead, " The Living Word Of God ".

 

[Ella85]

I didn't see any new verses to prove your case in Jesus potentially doing evil and or to fail in his mission, so I did not read your post here. New verses have to be presented in order for me to not to ignore your post. In other words, why write something to me that you know I will not read it for not meeting a basic requirement in Bible discussion?

Basic requirement....?

What are you...the CC police?

 

[dcontroversal]

Basic requirement....?

What are you...the CC police?

Not to mention that I don't always put the reference, but quote scripture....how did he know unless he read it.....and I did quote plenty of verses which he still has not answered other than to reject them in favor of his opinion just like in post 626...opinion and conjecture!

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Satan did not know 100% for sure if Jesus was the Holy Son of God yet. That was the whole purpose of the test. The devil was testing Jesus to see if He was the Holy Son of God. For Satan said, "If you are God's Son... (Do such and such)." In other words, Satan would not say this to Jesus if He knew He was the Son of God. It was a test of his identity (Of which later Satan does not bother to test him again to see if He is the Son of God or not). In fact, later, the demons then recognized Jesus as the Son of God (Matthew 8:29); Whereas before, Satan was questioning that fact (No doubt because he didn't know yet). But after Satan tested Christ, he discovered by testing him that this was the Son of God by which he would have then informed his minions (Whereby they would have recognized him).

Was not Satan told in Genesis 3:15 that "enmity would exist between his seed and the seed of the woman"?

 

[hopesprings]

He probably suspected it, but I don't think he knew for sure until after he tested him.

For why would he taunt God with his identity in saying, "If you are God's Son, then (do such and such)"?

Why would satan try and overthrow God?

 

[Jason0047]

Why would satan try and overthrow God?

My point exactly. It sure sounds crazy for Satan to take on the Son of God face to face. So he naturally wouldn't do such a thing knowing that fact. For Satan knows God (i.e. the Son of God) is too powerful to take on or challenge directly. If Satan knew this was truly the Son of God, then he would know that it would serve no purpose in trying to tempt Him because the Son of God is too Holy and too perfect to fall for his tricks head on. His test was to confirm his suspicions that He was the actual Son of God. For why would Satan question the identity of the Son of God by saying, "If you are God's Son, then (do such and such)" if He already knew it was the Son of God?

That would be like me trying to confirm the identity of one of my good friends when I already know them in saying, "Hey, if you are my friend, then (do such and such)." But see, I would not ever say that to one of my friends. I know who they are.

In other words, the devil needing to confirm the fact that Jesus was the Son of God was just one of the ways God was always one step ahead Satan. For the Lord allowed opportunities for the devil to influence evil men so as to crucify the Lord (When it was God's plan all along). However, if the devil and his minions (i.e. principalities) knew the Lord's plan, they would have not have crucified the Lord of glory (1 Corinthians 2:8).

For as I said before, the demons that were cast into the herd of swine did not question Jesus if He was the Son of God later on. They then knew that He was the Son of God because the devil communicated that fact to them after his test.

 

[Jason0047]

I mean, put on your detective cap and think about it for a second and gather all the clues. Compare the behavior between the devil and the demons in that were cast into the herd of swine. The devil did not seem afraid of Jesus. But the demons that were cast into the herd of swine were really scared of Him. The devil and his minions are both angels. So it wouldn't make sense for the devil to not be afraid and his minions to be afraid. Well, that is unless the devil was not 100% sure yet on the identity of the Son of God until He tested Him (that is) and told his minions later about it.

 

[hopesprings]

My point exactly. It sure sounds crazy for Satan to take on the Son of God face to face. So he naturally wouldn't do such a thing knowing that fact. For Satan knows God (i.e. the Son of God) is too powerful to take on or challenge directly. If Satan knew this was truly the Son of God, then he would know that it would serve no purpose in trying to tempt Him because the Son of God is too Holy and too perfect to fall for his tricks head on. His test was to confirm his suspicions that He was the actual Son of God. For why would Satan question the identity of the Son of God by saying, "If you are God's Son, then (do such and such)" if He already knew it was the Son of God?

That would be like me trying to confirm the identity of one of my good friends when I already know them in saying, "Hey, if you are my friend, then (do such and such)." But see, I would not ever say that to one of my friends. I know who they are.

In other words, the devil needing to confirm the fact that Jesus was the Son of God was just one of the ways God was always one step ahead Satan. For the Lord allowed opportunities for the devil to influence evil men so as to crucify the Lord (When it was God's plan all along). However, if the devil and his minions (i.e. principalities) knew the Lord's plan, they would have not have crucified the Lord of glory (1 Corinthians 2:8).

For as I said before, the demons that were cast into the herd of swine did not question Jesus if He was the Son of God later on. They then knew that He was the Son of God because the devil communicated that fact to them after his test.

but Satan did try and overthrow God.
He wanted to be like the Most High, but he had to have known that He could never be better than God.
yet he still tried

in light of that, it's not too crazy that satan would try and tempt Jesus, knowing he was God. He is full of himself, after all

 

[Jason0047]

but Satan did try and overthrow God.
He wanted to be like the Most High, but he had to have known that He could never be better than God.
yet he still tried

in light of that, it's not too crazy that satan would try and tempt Jesus, knowing he was God. He is full of himself, after all

I see what you are saying, but the other clues (evidences) cannot go ignored, though. Unless of course you can explain them (With Scripture).

 

[SolidGround]

If man was innocent at birth, then God could have saved the Elect by just taken them home as babies. But Adam passed down death (sin) to the entire human race that was born of the male seed. Yet, Jesus was born of the seed of the woman (where the sin of Adam is not passed down). For it interesting that medically, the blood of a baby comes from the male. Jesus has pure blood because Hebrews 7:26 says Jesus is separate from sinners, holy, and undefiled. In other words if you believe Jesus had a sin nature, or carnal flesh, or free will to potentially do evil, then how can you say he is not defiled? Did not Jesus say a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and vise versa?

Was Adam corrupt when created?
He was created good and blameless and pure.
He also had the potential to sin, but was not guilty or tarnished UNTIL he chose sin.

In this same way, Christ was the second Adam. Born pure and blameless and undefined, but with a choice.
Unlike Adam, Christ obeyed.

Why do you claim that "potential" is equivalent to guilt?
That is not logical, and CERTAINLY not Biblical.
Potential is the only thing that allows for righteousness.
To have a choice, and to choose God.

Without a choice, there is no point.
Why else would God even give the first Adam a choice?

We live in the best of all possible worlds. It is foolish to consider what would have happened IF Christ failed, because that didn't happen,
and by the understanding of God's Sovereignty, we know that it couldn't happen.

But why take it a step further and say that Christ didn't have a choice?
Why make Adam guilty before he ate, just because He had a choice?
If having a choice makes a person guilty, then Adam was NOT created good, but already defiled.

 

[Ella85]

Ofcourse Satan knew Jesus was the son of God Jason!!!
Are you serious!!!!!! What the heck am I reading oh my gosh.....I'm shocked. I just can't believe some of the stuff I read.

 

[Ella85]

He questioned Jesus, and said if you are the Son of God because he was trying to test Jesus!!! Trick Him into being brainwashed......you know.....because Jesus was out in the desert......no food, water etc.....
it was Satan's perfect time to stir Jesus's faith and use trickery in a time where he knew Jesus may have buckled.
Satan comes offering everything we have always wanted, especially the most desperate times in our lives. Especially when our faith needs to be the strongest.
Jesus is the perfect example of how ones faith can be put to test. Never loose sight of the Lord for He will provide, all we need to do is be patient.

 

[Ella85]

but Satan did try and overthrow God.
He wanted to be like the Most High, but he had to have known that He could never be better than God.
yet he still tried

in light of that, it's not too crazy that satan would try and tempt Jesus, knowing he was God. He is full of himself, after all

I agree...

Which is why Satan attempts to take the thrown of God one last time.
He also tries to impersonate Jesus...
All in attempt for people to worship him rather than Jesus!

 

[Jason0047]

I agree...

Which is why Satan attempts to take the thrown of God one last time.
He also tries to impersonate Jesus...
All in attempt for people to worship him rather than Jesus!

"If you are Elia85, then (do such and such)."

In other words, if I said the above to you, then you would understand that I was asking to prove who you were.

Also, why was Satan not afraid of Jesus and yet the demons that were cast into the herd of swine (Who instantly recognized Jesus as the Son of God) afraid of Him?

 

[Jason0047]

Was Adam corrupt when created?
He was created good and blameless and pure.
He also had the potential to sin, but was not guilty or tarnished UNTIL he chose sin.

That is what you don't seem to understand. With Adam it was not about whether or not he was created to be good (with a free will) or not. It had to do with perfection. Although, Adam was created to be good, he was not created to be perfect. The first Adam was imperfect because he had the capacity to do evil. The last (second) Adam was perfect because He did not have the capacity to sin because the last Adam is Jesus Christ who is God; And God cannot potentially sin. See, it is a circle of logic that you are ignoring.

Logical Fact #1: - God cannot potentially sin and or be tempted by sin.
Logical Fact #2: - Jesus is 100% and fully God and is said to be Holy, undefiled, & separate from sinners.

Conclusion: If you believe Jesus is truly God according to "Logical Fact #1" then you will believe that Jesus cannot potentially sin.

In this same way, Christ was the second Adam. Born pure and blameless and undefined, but with a choice.
Unlike Adam, Christ obeyed.

No, if Jesus at His core was Holy, undefiled, and SEPARATE from sinners. Meaning he is not like us sinners. He is different. Also, Adam was not created to be Holy. Adam was created as good but not Holy or perfect like Jesus Christ. That is why Jesus Christ came, because no human being could ever obey the Law. Only God Almighty could do it. That is what you are ignoring. That Jesus is fully God Almighty.

Why do you claim that "potential" is equivalent to guilt?

Because a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit. See, Adam was a good tree initially; But he proved himself to be a bad tree because he was imperfect unlike God. That is why the Last Adam (Jesus Christ) was necessary. What man could not do, God could do. It shows that man cannot save himself that only God can save us. It shows us that we cannot live life without God. That our function and being comes from Him. The moment you take that away by cutting away the goodness of Jesus Christ by saying He has the potential to sin is to not make Him God anymore. Either Jesus is truly the Holy God of the Scriptures or He is not.

That is not logical, and CERTAINLY not Biblical.

I understand your confusion. I am not claiming to have all knowledge, but on this point, it is actually quite easy to understand and see if you were to ask God to help you to see it (Jeremiah 33:3).

God does not have the capacity to sin. Jesus is God. And around the circle goes.

Potential is the only thing that allows for righteousness.

No, my friend. It has nothing to do with your righteousness. It has to do with God's righteousness.

Check out this article here for some great Scriptural references on this point.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99195-born-again-righteousness-god.html

To have a choice, and to choose God.

Without a choice, there is no point.
Why else would God even give the first Adam a choice?

Like I said, the choice was there to prove that we could not obey the Law without God (i.e. God living in our hearts). For Ezekiel 36:27 says,

"And I will put my spirit witin you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."​

We live in the best of all possible worlds. It is foolish to consider what would have happened IF Christ failed, because that didn't happen, and by the understanding of God's Sovereignty, we know that it couldn't happen.

See, right here you just refuted yourself and made a contradictory statement. You said it is foolish to think that Christ might have failed because of God's Sovereignty. Well, I think it has a lot more to do than just God's Sovereignty. Jesus had Sovereignty on the cross. Hebrews 1:3 says He held all things together by the word of His power when he purged us of our sins. So you believe that Jesus could be tempted by something that he could just say a word to disband all the molecules in whatever was tempting him? But see, Jesus could not even be tempted to potentially do evil. So it is not just about Christ or God's Sovereignty, but it is about the unchanging Holy nature of God who does not have the capacity to sin. See, you separate God from Christ as if they were two different people. They are not. Jesus Christ (God) came into the flesh (1 John 4:3).

But why take it a step further and say that Christ didn't have a choice?

Yes, because Jesus is God.