I think if someone is able to override the very basic instinct of self preservation and take their own life, I believe they are sick, no person in their right mind will do this, and I don't think God is going to judge someone who doesn't understand what they are doing. On the other side you have people who have sacrificed their lives for others,knowing full well they won't live, I believe this is the greatest sacrifice you can make for your fellow human, and certainly God wouldn't punish them for such an act of love, putting another s life before your own is the most selfless act of love there is.
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danalee
Guest
For the sake of promoting awareness:
There are different kinds of suicidal thinking and they stem from different etiologies. (root causes)
The issues of morality do play into this state and quite possibly would affect ones eternal life. And here's why I think that.
Suicidal thinking is the end result of a depraved spiritual state. If that depraved state was caused from acute stress like being a prisoner of war - that is not something that is the fault of that person - it is merely the result of a sickness from them being harmed by other people. They were in that sense not the root cause.
If someone suffers from profound abuse as a child and develops pathologies, that again may not be a willful state. These people have actual lesions on their brains from trauma. Those lesions interfere with brain function and they die as a result of this trauma.
But if a person loses in the stock market and wallows in self pity and jumps, I think that person is a goner.
I'm one to tell people straight up. Self pity is a sin.
There are different kinds of suicidal thinking and they stem from different etiologies. (root causes)
The issues of morality do play into this state and quite possibly would affect ones eternal life. And here's why I think that.
Suicidal thinking is the end result of a depraved spiritual state. If that depraved state was caused from acute stress like being a prisoner of war - that is not something that is the fault of that person - it is merely the result of a sickness from them being harmed by other people. They were in that sense not the root cause.
If someone suffers from profound abuse as a child and develops pathologies, that again may not be a willful state. These people have actual lesions on their brains from trauma. Those lesions interfere with brain function and they die as a result of this trauma.
But if a person loses in the stock market and wallows in self pity and jumps, I think that person is a goner.
I'm one to tell people straight up. Self pity is a sin.
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Spokenpassage
Guest
I guess it comes down to, were they saved in the first place? If they lost it, they never had it. If they keep it, they keep it. One does not simply lose something eternal.
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danalee
Guest
It's hard to imagine that someone filled with such self hatred, self pity and violence toward the self has Jesus Christ in their hearts.
So right, I believe it's possible for those who are severely ill and who die as a result to be saved, if they were once saved and had Jesus with them.
Jesus is a powerful thing (savior). He saves. So we need to push people in their faith who are suffering.
Only God knows someones heart and whether they understood what they did was wrong, mental illness is a real illness, just like any other, and sometimes things go wrong in the brain, I'm sure God understands when that happens, and when it does, just pray for the people left behind, as they have no answers, As far as situations such where the soldier jumps on the grenade, to save his buddies, I dont think that's suicide, thats a hero, people die every day to save others, should never call that a suicide
it's a difficult situation, a good friend at work up and blew his head off a couple of weeks ago, there are only 20 of us so it hit us all hard. no sign of depression,nothing, he was out for surgery, everything went well, then we couldn't get ahold of him,someone went to check and found him, makes no sense
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biggoofy56
Guest
So many quotes can be made from all of you. I just have to put in something. God is the judge and remember stress is the #1 killer. Obesity . not exercising cigaretts of course drugs lying cheating stealing...
The list goes on and on and on. How fast we do it can be debated to no avail.
When that saved soul (of course he was saved) gets to heaven to see Jesus waiting there to comfort him ( us)we will not even remember (hope) why we bickered the points not stressed or made clear beyond debate.
Its sin that's not going to be in heaven not people. I don't believe Judas is in torment but comforted by our loving savior
The list goes on and on and on. How fast we do it can be debated to no avail.
When that saved soul (of course he was saved) gets to heaven to see Jesus waiting there to comfort him ( us)we will not even remember (hope) why we bickered the points not stressed or made clear beyond debate.
Its sin that's not going to be in heaven not people. I don't believe Judas is in torment but comforted by our loving savior
Sorry to hear about that...May God forgive him and have mercy on him.
Some people do not talk about their problems because they are afraid they would become a burden to the others.
It still makes no sense, I know.
Psalm 136 states:
O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.
O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.
O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.
To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.
To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.
To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.
To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
The sun to rule by day:for his mercy endureth for ever:
The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.
To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever:
And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever:
With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever.
To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever:
And made Israel to pass through the midst of it: for his mercy endureth for ever:
But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever.
To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever.
To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:
And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:
Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever:
And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever:
And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endureth for ever:
Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever.
Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever:
And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever.
Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever.
O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever.
His mercy endures FOR EVER (to ALL), it doesn't just stop when a person dies!
Also note that when Moses asked to see God's glory in Exodus 33v18, God didn't show him His mighty power, BUT revealed His beautiful Character to him in Exodus 34v5-7!
NOTE: His first Name is "Merciful."
QED!
With respect to a christians salvation, is there really any difference between suicide, being killed by someone else, or dying in an accident??
In either case you physically die. Your spiritual status is not affected by how you die. If you believed in Jesus and were forgiven you go to heaven, if not, you don't.
Seems simple enough, why speculate even further into things we do not know.
There are questions and paradox's I could bring up regarding christian suicide if you were to say that suicide causes one to lose their salvation. But that is not what the bible teaches in my opinion.
In either case you physically die. Your spiritual status is not affected by how you die. If you believed in Jesus and were forgiven you go to heaven, if not, you don't.
Seems simple enough, why speculate even further into things we do not know.
There are questions and paradox's I could bring up regarding christian suicide if you were to say that suicide causes one to lose their salvation. But that is not what the bible teaches in my opinion.
Why on earth would you even suggest that one is damned for eternity for taking ones' own life? I know a great deal about depression, I have seen it at work in my own family. This is not something that they can control on their own. They get to the point that the only way out is through death, to shut off the hell they are already in. They see no other way out, and it gets so bad for them, they care not what lies on the other side, for they feel that how could it be possible that it is worse, than what they are going through at present? One could say that suicide is self murder, for it was planned and executed. The punishment for Murder is death, so if one paid the price already, then what? Lest we forget, about all the soldiers, who jumped upon a live grenade or stepped in front of machine gun fire to save another. They knew they would surely die, yet they did it anyway. They knew they would die, is this suicide as well? Listen, God knows what people in depression go through and how bad it can get. This is the way of the flesh, and not the spirit. He will not punish that which the flesh does when the spirit is crying for help, but does not know where or who to go to for relief, when there seems like no relief can be found.
Our Father knows everything and under what conditions things happen. He is our Father and not unlike an earthly father, would love and grieve the passing of a child, no matter what the circumstances. I sure hope this helps you, if even a little.
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Out of all the disciples, Judas, was the only Kenite. Christ had to pick one that He knew would betray Him and Judas fit the bill. To do otherwise, Christ would have had a more difficult time getting put to death, which by the way is why He went to Jerusalem against the wishes of the other disciples. If Christ had gone to the lost sheep, He never would have been put to death, for they are His sheep. The Kenites are not of God, and they are not Christ's sheep and He said so.
Hello Cairparavel,
Coming to terms with the death of a family member, or close friend, is traumatic. Coming to terms with a suicide must be doubly so, because one of the things we all ask when we hear of a death is, 'did they suffer?' In the case of a suicide, we know that for someone to have reached the point where they take their own life, they suffered, whether physically, mentally, or a combination of both. That would make the grieving process for those left behind much more complex and tortuous. However, to have the prospect of a loved one, who had been driven to suicide, being taken to a place deemed to be a place of eternal conscious punishment, would render those suffering grief at their loss, into a torment which would be lifelong!
This is what makes the traditionally held view of 'Hell,' as a place of eternal conscious punishment, a vile and obscene doctrine, especially as the word 'hell' means simply 'to hide away', and for the most part refers only to the grave. The only word, translated 'hell,' which holds reference to judgement and fire is, 'Gehenna', used by our Lord Jesus Christ, it has reference to total destruction, and takes place at the end of the age.
Man does not have an immortal soul: so there is no consciousness in death; and there is no life apart from resurrection.
The wages of sin is death, not eternal conscious punishment. So, no the suicide victim does not go to a place of further torment.
Praise God, that in His mercy and grace, God will judge justly, as only He can, and that will take place at the end of the age.
In Christ Jesus.
Chris
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Amen to that and I am truly thankful to the Lord for not just salvation of my soul but for my life.
Eternal Life is given to those who want it. To have the will to live, is to have the will to live for Christ. It's the reason why God has no beginning and no end... because he is Eternal Life He is the Alpha and the Omega, who was, and who is, and who will come, the almighty.. The wages of sin is death, which Jesus defeated on the cross so that this can happen for us, so that we can live as one body, one family, God's elect, with Jesus Christ as our cornerstone. Anyone who has this will be written into the Book of Life.
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IloveyouGod
Guest
OK Cairparavel: 1 Corinthians 6 19-20 explains how our bodies and spirits are owned by God. God is the ONLY one who has the right to bring it to life whenever He wants and takes it whenever He wants. Therefore committing suicide is a Sin. I know 1 Corinthians talked about sexual immorality. It basically says the same thing. "Our bodies and spirits belongs to God. We do not have any right to misuse them in any way"
However, NO ONE knows if those who commits suicide are in hell or heaven. God is the ONLY one who knows and decides that. And I'm pretty sure that God did not hire representatives to tell people who is in hell and who is in heaven. And those who speaks on behalf of God saying this person is in hell or heaven are committing a sin too because no one should confirm a fact on God's behalf.
Speaking of the great unforgivable sin you've mentioned. I want you to know that the great unforgivable sin is the sin that we do not repent from doing it. It is the sin that we do not stop doing it after we repent.
However, NO ONE knows if those who commits suicide are in hell or heaven. God is the ONLY one who knows and decides that. And I'm pretty sure that God did not hire representatives to tell people who is in hell and who is in heaven. And those who speaks on behalf of God saying this person is in hell or heaven are committing a sin too because no one should confirm a fact on God's behalf.
Speaking of the great unforgivable sin you've mentioned. I want you to know that the great unforgivable sin is the sin that we do not repent from doing it. It is the sin that we do not stop doing it after we repent.
Of course there is. Also, not all christians here agree that salvation is something that you can hold, or a stamp on your passport to heaven. I believe we are saved from death (the death that Adam caused when eating the fruit: the death of not knowing God, the spiritual death and the death of the body). Life is a gift from God. My husband said that maybe God will ask us at the final judgement "why didn't you live your life?" or "why didn't you become what you were ment to become?".
I don't say that those that commit suicide go to hell, because I am not God. But from that to say that it doesn't matter how we die it's a loong path.
My church, for example, does not officiate a funeral service for those that commited suicide - this is how seriously wrong is suicide in my church.
The only problem with your simplistic scheme is that believing in Jesus actually implies taking your cross daily and suffer until the end.
Can you lose something that you don't have? Can you hold salvation? Jesus Christ said "I am the path, the truth and the life". He is the path. So, salvation is a path, a long-life process. To say that you are saved means to place yourself at the end of the path.
The Corinthian letters were written to the church at Corinth so that must mean they are not relevant to us.
The Ephesians letter was written to the church at Ephesus so that must mean they are not relevant to us.
The letters written to Timothy and Titus were written to Timothy and Titus so that must mean they are not relevant to us.
In fact, most of the New Testament was written to someone so we can dismiss it all as not relevant to us.