Christians in Egypt

[Drett]

Hi L

I am not time rich. I have spent a lot of time going through each of the verses you copy and paste in. You ignore what I state. Oh well such is life. I think I am going to take a different approach with you. I am going to look at history instead.

In 638, just a few years after the death of the Prophet pbuh, an army of his followers surrounded Jerusalem. The city Patriarch, Sophronius, handed over the city after a brief siege. There was only one condition; that the terms of their surrender be negotiated directly with ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second Khalif of Islam.
‘Umar entered Jerusalem on foot. There was no bloodshed. There were no massacres. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to, with all their possessions. Those who wanted to stay were guaranteed protection for their lives, their property, and their places of worship in the ‘Umariyya Covenant.


For the first time in its long history, Jerusalem had been spared a bloodbath.


It is said that ‘Umar accompanied Sophronious to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and that he was offered a place to pray in it. ‘Umar declined, fearing it might establish a precedent which would threaten the church’s continued use as a Christian house of worship. He prayed instead to the south of the church, now the site of the Mosque of ‘Umar in Jerusalem.


‘Umar then asked to be taken to the site of Al Aqsa Mosque. Accompanied by hundreds of Muslims, to his disappointment he found the area covered in dust and debris. The Bishop took him to the site (known to the Jews as Temple Mount), which to Umar’s disappointment was being used as a garbage dump. This is because under the Christian rule at that time, Jews were not allowed to worship or even enter Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa site.


On seeing the state of the Al-Aqsa site, Umar said:


“Allah (God) is Great, I swear by the one who holds my soul in his hand that this is the Mosque of David which the prophet of Allah described to us after his night journey.”


A huge timber mosque which held three thousand worshippers was erected on this site in the time of ‘Umar, at the southernmost wall of the Noble Sanctuary.

Umar Al Khattab allowed the Jews back into Jerusalem and allowed them access to the temple mount which the Christians of that time used as a rubbish dump. The place where Jesus chased the money changers out with a stick was used as a rubbish dump. Do you see the irony ?

 

[Drett]

The Christians regained Jerusalem after the first crusade. They were told whoever killed a Jews that refused baptism had all their sins forgiven.

What happened after the 2nd Crusade when Jerusalem was liberated again ?

Saladin allowed Christian pilgrims to visit Jerusalem without official papers. He posted soldiers for their safety. He commanded that every kindness be extended to his guests, and he enjoyed conferring with the bishop and allowed him to visit Bethlehem and Nazareth and to leave behind Latin priests and deacons.


He returned to Damascus in mid-November 1192 and was greeted with jubilation. Crowds followed him through the streets. Poets praised him, calling him the great protector who had spread the wings of justice over all and spoke of his having rained gifts on his people “from the clouds of his munificence and kindness.”

He returned to be greeted by Jubilation. Sounds like the Jewish people were happy to live under peace again.

 

[Drett]

Surah 9 speaks of removing corruption from the land. The Romans persecuted the Jewish people. The Muslims opened Jerusalem up to all again.

The Jews persecuted during the Spanish revolution fled to Muslims lands. There are Jews in Iran that refuse to migrate to Israel no matter how much money is thrown at them.

Iran's Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel | World news | theguardian.com

So you can cherry pick your way through the Quran. I suspect now you will cherry pick your way through history putting to isolated incidences and Jewish people unhappy to be living under Islamic rule. History states the Muslims freed Jerusalem and allowed the Jewish people back in. The Msulims gave the Jewish people a haven from forced baptism. Sure there were Jewish people not happy to be under Islamic rule but what people are happy to be governed under others.

I would just like to end by clarifing I do not believe the Christians of that time represent the teachings of Jesus or Paul.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Your statement seems fair enough on it's face because, of course, it's possible for people to malign most anything including both Islam and Christianity. If you had made that statement, I would have agreed with you.

But you didn't. You said that Egyptian Muslims do not represent Islam anymore than Spanish Catholics represented Christianity. This is where you made your mistake. Egyptian Muslims align well with the epistemology of Islam which is constructed upon the teachings of Mohammad while Spanish Catholics did not align well with Christian epistemology which are constructed upon the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The teachings of Muhammad and the teachings of Jesus Christ stand in stark contrast to each other and in many cases are diametrically opposed to each other.

The negationism in India by Muslims in which about 100 million Hindus (and Buddhists) were murdered is the biggest holocaust in all of human history and was almost solely by the sword and forced famine. They were murdered and deliberately starved to death outright which is different than the negationism caused by Western colonialism in which the majority of deaths attribute to diseases originating in domesticated cattle that indigenous people had no immunity for.

When the Muslims did this, they were following the teachings of Muhammad. Specifically, they were following the later violent teachings that originated from the Medina period that Mohammad said supersede the earlier more tolerant teachings from the period in Mecca. In the case of the negationism of India, this occurred shortly after the death of Muhammad under the subsequent Umayyad Caliphate.

Muhammad led his followers in Jihad and war. Jesus Christ went to the cross for his.

There are, of course, a great many examples of Muhammad's violent teachings against non-Muslims that in their proper context clearly show he meant physical violence not spiritual. Here's just one of many: "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them..." (Bukhari 8:387) .

This doesn't square well with Jesus that to love God and to love one's neighbor were fulfillment of the moral law.

When Muslims expand Islam with the sword committing holocausts, they are following Muslim Median epistemology. When Catholics or Christians do it, they are acting in contrary to Christian epistemology. That's the difference and why your assertion is false.

Hi AOK

What the Egyptians are doing is wrong. They do not represent Islam as the Spanish Inquisition did not represent Christianity.

 

[zone]

You might remember when Morsi was deposed, the Egyptian military discovered a treasure trove of documents linking the Obama regime with the illegal activities of the Muslim Brotherhood including funding them with billions and Obama's half brother being linked as well. It is reported they were openly crucifying Christians.

Well now the Muslim Brotherhood and its supporters are forcing some Coptic Christians in Egypt to pay a steep jizya tax and if they can't pay it because they don't have enough money they are being assaulted with their wives and children sometimes being kidnapped and presumed to be sold into slavery. And this isn’t just happening in Egypt now but also Syria and Iraq.

Brotherhood imposes Jizya tribute on Egypt’s Christians

As Syria's war rages, region's Christians hold their breath - CSMonitor.com

The Mass Exodus of Christians from the Muslim World | Raymond Ibrahim
Syria's most powerful rebel group formally pledged allegiance to al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahri. The al-Nusra group, the strongest extremist movement in Syria, issued a statement of support for the al Qaeda terror network.

Syria's rebel army pledges allegiance to Al Qaeda as new Islamist insurgence threatens dictator Assad | Mail Online

Now I read that U.S. authorities are hunting down members of the U.S. military that appeared in uniform holding placards stating they didn't join the U.S. military to fight on the side of Al Qaeda against Christians.

Troops Are Posting Photos In Protest Of Syrian Intervention - Business Insider

so AoK:
you're posting some amazing stuff.
what conclusions are you reaching?

particularly about:

Al Qaeda
Ayman al-Zawahri
the Muslim Brotherhood

zone

 

[Drett]

Your statement seems fair enough on it's face because, of course, it's possible for people to malign most anything including both Islam and Christianity. If you had made that statement, I would have agreed with you.

But you didn't. You said that Egyptian Muslims do not represent Islam anymore than Spanish Catholics represented Christianity. This is where you made your mistake. Egyptian Muslims align well with the epistemology of Islam which is constructed upon the teachings of Mohammad while Spanish Catholics did not align well with Christian epistemology which are constructed upon the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The teachings of Muhammad and the teachings of Jesus Christ stand in stark contrast to each other and in many cases are diametrically opposed to each other.

The negationism in India by Muslims in which about 100 million Hindus (and Buddhists) were murdered is the biggest holocaust in all of human history and was almost solely by the sword and forced famine. They were murdered and deliberately starved to death outright which is different than the negationism caused by Western colonialism in which the majority of deaths attribute to diseases originating in domesticated cattle that indigenous people had no immunity for.

When the Muslims did this, they were following the teachings of Muhammad. Specifically, they were following the later violent teachings that originated from the Medina period that Mohammad said supersede the earlier more tolerant teachings from the period in Mecca. In the case of the negationism of India, this occurred shortly after the death of Muhammad under the subsequent Umayyad Caliphate.

Muhammad led his followers in Jihad and war. Jesus Christ went to the cross for his.

There are, of course, a great many examples of Muhammad's violent teachings against non-Muslims that in their proper context clearly show he meant physical violence not spiritual. Here's just one of many: "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them..." (Bukhari 8:387) .

This doesn't square well with Jesus that to love God and to love one's neighbor were fulfillment of the moral law.

When Muslims expand Islam with the sword committing holocausts, they are following Muslim Median epistemology. When Catholics or Christians do it, they are acting in contrary to Christian epistemology. That's the difference and why your assertion is false.

Hi AOK

I am walking a bit of a tight rope here. I don't want to get into the teachings of Jesus. It will go against the rules of this chat.

I will just ask what is your understanding of the role of Joshua in the old testament ?

Again I state, rather than cherry pick through conversation and verses in the Quran. Look at history. The Muslims gave people who were persecuted by the Romans, a refuge. Where would the Jews have gone without the Muslims ?

Whether you think a country that is blowing up mosques and stealing money from Christians is following Islam after seeing how the Muslims acted in liberating Jerusalem, the second crusade and during the Spanish Inquisition then there is nothing more I can say. I understand you want to demonise the opposition.

 

[leonardronaldo]

Hi L

I am not time rich. I have spent a lot of time going through each of the verses you copy and paste in. You ignore what I state. Oh well such is life. I think I am going to take a different approach with you. I am going to look at history instead.

In 638, just a few years after the death of the Prophet pbuh, an army of his followers surrounded Jerusalem. The city Patriarch, Sophronius, handed over the city after a brief siege. There was only one condition; that the terms of their surrender be negotiated directly with ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second Khalif of Islam.
‘Umar entered Jerusalem on foot. There was no bloodshed. There were no massacres. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to, with all their possessions. Those who wanted to stay were guaranteed protection for their lives, their property, and their places of worship in the ‘Umariyya Covenant.


For the first time in its long history, Jerusalem had been spared a bloodbath.


It is said that ‘Umar accompanied Sophronious to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and that he was offered a place to pray in it. ‘Umar declined, fearing it might establish a precedent which would threaten the church’s continued use as a Christian house of worship. He prayed instead to the south of the church, now the site of the Mosque of ‘Umar in Jerusalem.


‘Umar then asked to be taken to the site of Al Aqsa Mosque. Accompanied by hundreds of Muslims, to his disappointment he found the area covered in dust and debris. The Bishop took him to the site (known to the Jews as Temple Mount), which to Umar’s disappointment was being used as a garbage dump. This is because under the Christian rule at that time, Jews were not allowed to worship or even enter Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa site.


On seeing the state of the Al-Aqsa site, Umar said:


“Allah (God) is Great, I swear by the one who holds my soul in his hand that this is the Mosque of David which the prophet of Allah described to us after his night journey.”


A huge timber mosque which held three thousand worshippers was erected on this site in the time of ‘Umar, at the southernmost wall of the Noble Sanctuary.

Umar Al Khattab allowed the Jews back into Jerusalem and allowed them access to the temple mount which the Christians of that time used as a rubbish dump. The place where Jesus chased the money changers out with a stick was used as a rubbish dump. Do you see the irony ?

LOL. What is the source of history that you are posting? You can quote history from internet anytime you like, but which one is the correct one, the quran and its tafsir or that history? It is up to you and any muslims to believe any 'good stories' about prophet muhammad. But if we are talking about Islam, then Quran and Sunna is its highest authority.
I know you will ignore reading your texts as it is, and prefer to read sugar coated 'english version' of the story, even if that is false. Thank you for presenting your position.

I'll continue to pray for you.

 

[leonardronaldo]

The Christians regained Jerusalem after the first crusade. They were told whoever killed a Jews that refused baptism had all their sins forgiven.

What happened after the 2nd Crusade when Jerusalem was liberated again ?

Saladin allowed Christian pilgrims to visit Jerusalem without official papers. He posted soldiers for their safety. He commanded that every kindness be extended to his guests, and he enjoyed conferring with the bishop and allowed him to visit Bethlehem and Nazareth and to leave behind Latin priests and deacons.


He returned to Damascus in mid-November 1192 and was greeted with jubilation. Crowds followed him through the streets. Poets praised him, calling him the great protector who had spread the wings of justice over all and spoke of his having rained gifts on his people “from the clouds of his munificence and kindness.”

He returned to be greeted by Jubilation. Sounds like the Jewish people were happy to live under peace again.

NOT EVERY ONE WHO SAYS to ME LORD LORD, are gonna enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus claims that people are not Christian by their profession in their mouth. I challenge you, if you think they are really 'christians', show me where did Christ fight or give command to fight?

 

[leonardronaldo]

Surah 9 speaks of removing corruption from the land. The Romans persecuted the Jewish people. The Muslims opened Jerusalem up to all again.

The Jews persecuted during the Spanish revolution fled to Muslims lands. There are Jews in Iran that refuse to migrate to Israel no matter how much money is thrown at them.

Iran's Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel | World news | theguardian.com

So you can cherry pick your way through the Quran. I suspect now you will cherry pick your way through history putting to isolated incidences and Jewish people unhappy to be living under Islamic rule. History states the Muslims freed Jerusalem and allowed the Jewish people back in. The Msulims gave the Jewish people a haven from forced baptism. Sure there were Jewish people not happy to be under Islamic rule but what people are happy to be governed under others.

I would just like to end by clarifing I do not believe the Christians of that time represent the teachings of Jesus or Paul.

LOL. What corruption? Did you not read the verse? I even posted the TAFSIR of IBN ABBAS, cousin of MUHAMMAD Himself. Which one is more trusworthy on the QURAN, YOU, ME, or IBN ABBAS?
Or you meant being a JEW and being a CHRISTIAN is a corrupt thing in ALLAH's eye? If that is what you meant, I agree, that is what is stated in the aya there.
I am not talking about people, here, remember. IT is your ALLAH, your god. Who cares if there are IRANIANS who disagree with him and do the other things.

This is why people always misunderstand me. I am discussing about ISLAM and CHRISTIANITY.
People who confess to be muslim/christian can claim whatever they want or whatever they like, let them do it. I am only interested in discussing the text.
My problem is with Islam, and I will repeat again. I hate Islam because Allah and Muhammad hate me First; just like I love Jesus because Jesus loves me first.

 

[leonardronaldo]

Hi AOK

I am walking a bit of a tight rope here. I don't want to get into the teachings of Jesus. It will go against the rules of this chat.

I will just ask what is your understanding of the role of Joshua in the old testament ?

Again I state, rather than cherry pick through conversation and verses in the Quran. Look at history. The Muslims gave people who were persecuted by the Romans, a refuge. Where would the Jews have gone without the Muslims ?

Whether you think a country that is blowing up mosques and stealing money from Christians is following Islam after seeing how the Muslims acted in liberating Jerusalem, the second crusade and during the Spanish Inquisition then there is nothing more I can say. I understand you want to demonise the opposition.

Please don't ban drett admin, if i can request a plea. He is trying to be honest.
Drett, just tell what you think about Christianity. Why would you think it goes against the rule? If you believe the Tora' and the Gospel has been corrupted, can you show me where in the Islamic text (Quran or Hadith) does it say that?
It is not demonizing when your allah's rule and order can be classified as 'demon'. Would you give your pre-pubescent daughter into marriage and even be divorced?
Again, I know you will say, but no Muslims did that. That's not the issue, drett. This is ALLAH. In the OT clearly YHWH, states that HE HATES divorce. Allah allows divorce, even more grossly, also provide divorce rules for the pre-pubescent bride. Astagfirullah

 

[Drett]

LOL. What is the source of history that you are posting? You can quote history from internet anytime you like, but which one is the correct one, the quran and its tafsir or that history? It is up to you and any muslims to believe any 'good stories' about prophet muhammad. But if we are talking about Islam, then Quran and Sunna is its highest authority.
I know you will ignore reading your texts as it is, and prefer to read sugar coated 'english version' of the story, even if that is false. Thank you for presenting your position.

I'll continue to pray for you.

Thanks for your prayers. Concerning history I will try to provide neutral sources.

Upon Umar's arrival in Jerusalem, a pact known as The Umariyya Covenant was composed. It surrendered the city and gave guarantees of civil and religious liberty to Christians in exchange for jizya. It was signed by caliph Umar on behalf of the Muslims, and witnessed by Khalid, Amr, Abdur Rahman bin Awf, and Muawiyah. In late April 637, Jerusalem was officially surrendered to the caliph. For the first time, after almost 500 years of oppressive Roman rule, Jews were once again allowed to live and worship inside Jerusalem.

Gil, Moshe (1997). A History of Palestine, 634–1099. Cambridge, United Kingdom: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-59984-9. Page 51 and 54

The liberation of Jerusalem from oppression. The word oppression was the word used by Moshe Gil.

Give me some time to collect the others.

 

[Drett]

n 1182, Saladin began his move against the Crusaders. His motives have been described as both his devotion to Islam and as dynastic aggrandizement. On July 4 he decisively defeated the Crusaders at the Battle of Hattin (in what today is northeastern Israel) – celebrated by Muslims into the 21st century.

The victory at Hattin was followed by the reconquest of various Crusader towns. He laid siege to Jerusalem and offered it generous terms of surrender, which were rejected. The Crusader nobleman in charge, Balian of Ibelin, threatened to kill his Muslim hostages, estimated at 5000, and to destroy Islam’s holy shrines of the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque. Saladin consulted his council and these terms for surrender were accepted. Every Christian man, woman and child was to pay a ransom for his freedom. On 2 October 1187 he took possession of the city – after 88 years of Christian rule. Saladin allowed many to leave without a ransom consideration, and most Christian foot soldiers were sold into slavery.

With Jerusalem secure, Saladin summoned Jews to resettle in the city, and Jews form the large settlement in Ashkelon responded to his request.

In 1193, at the age of 55, Saladin died of yellow fever. He had given his wealth to charity. He left behind only one gold piece and forty-seven pieces of silver; he had given the rest away to charity.


Saladin and the Second and Third Crusades, 1147 to 1193

 

[Drett]

In 1391, many Jews were forced to convert to Catholicism. The converted Jews remained in Spain and were called conversos or Marranos , the Spanish word for pigs. These New Christians could not openly practice Judaism without fear of persecution.

In the late 15 th Century King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella wed, uniting the kingdoms of Castille and Aragon. It wasn’t long before they took back the last remaining Moorish Kingdom of Granada in the south. Devout Christians, the King and Queen could not tolerate non-believers in their kingdom. It was in the Alhambra that their edict expelling the Jews from Christian Spain in 1492 was signed. Jews had to convert to Christianity or leave the country.

Jews who left Spain fled mainly to the Islamic countries that bordered the Mediterranean Sea. They went to Italy, North Africa, Palestine and to the area we now know as Syria, which was controlled by the Ottoman Empire and whose rulers welcomed the Jews with open arms. Some went to Portugal, but were later expelled.

The Jews of Aleppo

 

[leonardronaldo]

Thanks for your prayers. Concerning history I will try to provide neutral sources.

Upon Umar's arrival in Jerusalem, a pact known as The Umariyya Covenant was composed. It surrendered the city and gave guarantees of civil and religious liberty to Christians in exchange for jizya. It was signed by caliph Umar on behalf of the Muslims, and witnessed by Khalid, Amr, Abdur Rahman bin Awf, and Muawiyah. In late April 637, Jerusalem was officially surrendered to the caliph. For the first time, after almost 500 years of oppressive Roman rule, Jews were once again allowed to live and worship inside Jerusalem.

Gil, Moshe (1997). A History of Palestine, 634–1099. Cambridge, United Kingdom: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-59984-9. Page 51 and 54

The liberation of Jerusalem from oppression. The word oppression was the word used by Moshe Gil.

Give me some time to collect the others.

You don't need to find neutral sources, especially if it's untrue. The pact of ummar, classifies the Jews and Christians in Muslim land as DHIMMI --> means protected person. so in other words, either you pay jizya (in subdued and downhearted feeling), or convert to Islam (or else, death).
If you think UMAR was a man of tolerance, then you haven't read the hadith where Umar narrated that muhammad had said, No TWO RELIGIONS can exist in the peninsula of Arab.
so, since you have chosen jews historian than allah or muhammad or ibn abbas, i'll also provide another side of the history of the Pact of Umar that haven't been said by you:

from 'Abd al-Rahman ibn Ghanam [died 78/697] as follows: When Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, accorded a peace to the Christians of Syria, we wrote to him as follows:


In the name of Allah, the Merciful and Compassionate. This is a letter to the servant of Allah, Umar [ibn al-Khattab], Commander of the Faithful, from the Christians of the city. When you came against us, we asked you for safe-conduct (AMAN) for ourselves, our descendants, our property, and the people of our community, and we undertook the following obligations towards you:


1We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, Churches, convents, or monks' cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims.


2We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days.

3We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy, nor bide him from the Muslims.

4We shall not teach the Qur'an to our children. It is forbidden to touch the Qur'an.


5We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it.


6We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit.


7 We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the qalansuwa, the turban, footwear, or the parting of the hair. We shall not speak as they do, nor shall we adopt their kunyas.


8We shall not mount on saddles, nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our- persons.


9We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals.


10We shall not sell fermented drinks.


11We shall clip the fronts of our heads.


12We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the zunar round our waists.


13We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims. We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices when following our dead. We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims.


14We shall not take slaves who have been allotted to Muslims.


15We shall not build houses overtopping the houses of the Muslims.


16(When I brought the letter to Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, he added, "We shall not strike a Muslim.")


17We accept these conditions for ourselves and for the people of our community, and in return we receive safe-conduct.


18If we in any way violate these undertakings for which we ourselves stand surety, we forfeit our covenant [dhimma], and we become liable to the penalties for contumacy and sedition.


Umar ibn al-Khittab replied: Sign what they ask, but add two clauses and impose them in addition to those which they have undertaken. They are:


19"They shall not buy anyone made prisoner by the Muslims," and


20"Whoever strikes a Muslim with deliberate intent shall forfeit the protection of this pact."


from Al-Turtushi, Siraj al-Muluk, pp. 229-230.

 

[leonardronaldo]

n 1182, Saladin began his move against the Crusaders. His motives have been described as both his devotion to Islam and as dynastic aggrandizement. On July 4 he decisively defeated the Crusaders at the Battle of Hattin (in what today is northeastern Israel) – celebrated by Muslims into the 21st century.

The victory at Hattin was followed by the reconquest of various Crusader towns. He laid siege to Jerusalem and offered it generous terms of surrender, which were rejected. The Crusader nobleman in charge, Balian of Ibelin, threatened to kill his Muslim hostages, estimated at 5000, and to destroy Islam’s holy shrines of the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque. Saladin consulted his council and these terms for surrender were accepted. Every Christian man, woman and child was to pay a ransom for his freedom. On 2 October 1187 he took possession of the city – after 88 years of Christian rule. Saladin allowed many to leave without a ransom consideration, and most Christian foot soldiers were sold into slavery.

With Jerusalem secure, Saladin summoned Jews to resettle in the city, and Jews form the large settlement in Ashkelon responded to his request.

In 1193, at the age of 55, Saladin died of yellow fever. He had given his wealth to charity. He left behind only one gold piece and forty-seven pieces of silver; he had given the rest away to charity.


Saladin and the Second and Third Crusades, 1147 to 1193

Seems you don't understand my point, Drett.
My problem is with Islam. I don't need to read 12th century's man's history to understand Islam. Reading muhammad's and his sahabas' histories are much more than enough, in solving my problem.

Salam

 

[leonardronaldo]

In 1391, many Jews were forced to convert to Catholicism. The converted Jews remained in Spain and were called conversos or Marranos , the Spanish word for pigs. These New Christians could not openly practice Judaism without fear of persecution.

In the late 15 th Century King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella wed, uniting the kingdoms of Castille and Aragon. It wasn’t long before they took back the last remaining Moorish Kingdom of Granada in the south. Devout Christians, the King and Queen could not tolerate non-believers in their kingdom. It was in the Alhambra that their edict expelling the Jews from Christian Spain in 1492 was signed. Jews had to convert to Christianity or leave the country.

Jews who left Spain fled mainly to the Islamic countries that bordered the Mediterranean Sea. They went to Italy, North Africa, Palestine and to the area we now know as Syria, which was controlled by the Ottoman Empire and whose rulers welcomed the Jews with open arms. Some went to Portugal, but were later expelled.

The Jews of Aleppo

Why would you care for Jews, drett, when your ALLAH HIMSELF CURSES and FIGHTS them?
anyway, the quran called the Jews descendants of apes and pigs, so maybe those spanish are actually following allah's words more than you do. lol

 

[Drett]

Why would you care for Jews, drett, when your ALLAH HIMSELF CURSES and FIGHTS them?
anyway, the quran called the Jews descendants of apes and pigs, so maybe those spanish are actually following allah's words more than you do. lol

Yet history disagrees with your analysis and understanding doesn't it.

 

[Drett]

Alas your understanding of the apes and pigs verse is all screwed up. I have repeated tried to tell you this. You have ignored it. So now I have shown you how history disagrees with your analysis and understanding.

Lets recap;

The Jews were thrown out by the Roman. Umar Al Khattab got them back in. They were thrown out by the Christians of the 1st crusade. Saladin got them back in. The Jews persecuted during the Spanish inquisition sort refuge in Muslim lands. There are still of group of Jews in Iran that refuse to go to Israel even though they have been offered money to go.

“A mind set in its ways is wasted. Don't do it.”
― Eric Schmidt