Christmas
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It's supposed to be a place for you and everyone to read, learn and educate ourselves on the topic in a constructive manner.
T
Tintin
Guest
lol..
This is March..Christmas is 9 months away..lol.. give it a rest already..
I know that you've 'sighed wearily' since i posted this from the outset, but funnily enough you've kept returning to make comments here and there. I think it's sad for those who chose not to read the original post, understand it, learn about the topic and walk about with something constructive about it. What is sadder still in this thread, is those who claim to be Christian come into the thread with nothing but jeering, sarcastic jibes, which never mind the time of the year or the topic being explored, is anything but Christ like, which is who they claim to follow every day all day.
If you can't respond constructively and in a Christ like manner to a thread, please refrain from posting, thankyou.
V
VioletReigns
Guest
I read the original OP.. but seriously, this is March..talking about Christmas is more appropriate for December... especially since there are DOZENS of threads on this subject already.. I'm not the only one here who is weary of christmas threads..
It is undeniable that Constantine systematically paganized the Church at the opening of the fourth Century.
If it were indeed true that the true date of the Lord's date could not be determined; then Dec 25 would be of little importance.
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named
Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and
her name was Elisabeth.
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named
Zachariah, of the course of Abijah: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron,
and her name was Elisabeth.
Herod, the king of Judaea This is Herod, ‘the Great’, Son of Antipater, an Idumean.
Here Jacob’s prophesy is fulfilled: Ge 49:10 (The sceptre shall not depart from
Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall
the gathering of the people be.); since the first king of Judea, not descended from
Judah, reigned at the birth of Jesus (Yeshua) the Messiah, to whom Shiloh refers.
Zacharias God Has Remembered a Greek transliteration of Zechariah, named after the
Prophet
course of Abijah When the sacerdotal families grew very numerous, so that all could
not officiate together at the tabernacle, David divided them into twenty-four classes, that
they might minister by turns, 1 Ch 24:1 ,etc., each family serving a whole week,
2Ki 11:7; 2Ch 23:8 Abiah was the eighth in the order in which they had been originally
established: 1Ch 24:10.
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, in Public Domain via E-Sword.)
Since Abijah was the eighth course, Zechariah served during the eighth and 32nd
weeks of a 354 day lunar year. This chapter proves conclusively that Jesus (Yeshua)
was NOT born on Dec. 25. We know from verse 24 that Elisabeth conceived during
Zechariah’s time of service (during the 8th or 32nd week. We know from verse 20 that
Elisabeth carried for a normal term (38 weeks) This means that John, ‘the baptizer’ was
born either during the Feast of Unleavened Bread or during Sukkot. We know from
verse 36 that Mary conceived 6 months after Elisabeth. This means that Jesus
(Yeshua) was also born either during Passover or Sukkot. We know from Mt 17:12-13
that John, ‘the baptizer’ fulfilled the prophesy of Elijah’s return (Mal 4:5). This strongly
suggests that John was born at Passover; and Jesus (Yeshua) was born during
Sukkot. This suggestion is reinforced by Jn 1:14 (The Word was made flesh and
tabernacled among us)(Sukkot = Tabernacles).
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and
ordinances of the Lord blameless.
6 And they were both upright before God, habitually practicing all the
commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
upright living a life of habitual obedience. There is none righteous Ps 14:1; Ro 3:10.
blameless This is NOT the same as sinless. All have sinned Ps 14:3; Ro 3:23
2862
7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now
well stricken in years.
8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the
order of his course,
9 According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he
went into the temple of the Lord.
10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.
11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the
altar of incense.
{Return to: Zc 3:1 }
12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy
wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
John (Ἰωάννη) yohannee a Greek form of Jochanan God has been Gracious Also
grandfather of Judas Maccabeus.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong
drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Before Pentecost, the Holy Spirit generally came upon people, rather than indwelling
them. Since John was to be the embodiment of the prophesied return of Elijah,
(Mt 17:12-13) (Mal 4:5) he was to be exceptional in many ways.
16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the
fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready
a people prepared for the Lord.
See: Mal 4:6; Mt 17:12-13. {Return to: Is 40:4, Mt 17:12, Rv 11:3 }
18 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man,
and my wife well stricken in years.
19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of
God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
Gabriel God’s Champion This is likely a title for this class of angel rather than a proper
name. Michael, and Satan, on the other hand, appear to be proper names for two
archangels. {Return to: Is 13:3, Rv 8:2 }
2863
20 And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these
things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be
fulfilled in their season.
season ( καιρὸν) a universally fixed or definite time (which in the case of normal
human gestation is 266-270 days or about 38 weeks.) {Return to: verse 5, verse 64 }
21 And the people waited for Zacharias, and marveled that he tarried so long in the
temple.
22 And when he came out, he could not speak unto them: and they perceived that he
had seen a vision in the temple: for he beckoned unto them, and remained
speechless.
23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were
accomplished, he departed to his own house.
the days of his ministration which for the course of Abijah were the eighth or thirtysecond
week.
24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months,
saying,
24 And during (or in the midst of) those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid
herself five months, saying,
during (or in the midst of) μετά (3326)[(literally amid or among) with respect to time
while or during] NOT after ὀπίσω (3694).(after), it specifically sets the onset of gestation
in the eighth or thirty-second week of the year. From μετά, we get the German ‘mit’
meaning with or among.
those days the days of Zechariah’s service (see verse 23) {Return to: verse 5 , 26 }
If it were indeed true that the true date of the Lord's date could not be determined; then Dec 25 would be of little importance.
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named
Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and
her name was Elisabeth.
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named
Zachariah, of the course of Abijah: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron,
and her name was Elisabeth.
Herod, the king of Judaea This is Herod, ‘the Great’, Son of Antipater, an Idumean.
Here Jacob’s prophesy is fulfilled: Ge 49:10 (The sceptre shall not depart from
Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall
the gathering of the people be.); since the first king of Judea, not descended from
Judah, reigned at the birth of Jesus (Yeshua) the Messiah, to whom Shiloh refers.
Zacharias God Has Remembered a Greek transliteration of Zechariah, named after the
Prophet
course of Abijah When the sacerdotal families grew very numerous, so that all could
not officiate together at the tabernacle, David divided them into twenty-four classes, that
they might minister by turns, 1 Ch 24:1 ,etc., each family serving a whole week,
2Ki 11:7; 2Ch 23:8 Abiah was the eighth in the order in which they had been originally
established: 1Ch 24:10.
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, in Public Domain via E-Sword.)
Since Abijah was the eighth course, Zechariah served during the eighth and 32nd
weeks of a 354 day lunar year. This chapter proves conclusively that Jesus (Yeshua)
was NOT born on Dec. 25. We know from verse 24 that Elisabeth conceived during
Zechariah’s time of service (during the 8th or 32nd week. We know from verse 20 that
Elisabeth carried for a normal term (38 weeks) This means that John, ‘the baptizer’ was
born either during the Feast of Unleavened Bread or during Sukkot. We know from
verse 36 that Mary conceived 6 months after Elisabeth. This means that Jesus
(Yeshua) was also born either during Passover or Sukkot. We know from Mt 17:12-13
that John, ‘the baptizer’ fulfilled the prophesy of Elijah’s return (Mal 4:5). This strongly
suggests that John was born at Passover; and Jesus (Yeshua) was born during
Sukkot. This suggestion is reinforced by Jn 1:14 (The Word was made flesh and
tabernacled among us)(Sukkot = Tabernacles).
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and
ordinances of the Lord blameless.
6 And they were both upright before God, habitually practicing all the
commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
upright living a life of habitual obedience. There is none righteous Ps 14:1; Ro 3:10.
blameless This is NOT the same as sinless. All have sinned Ps 14:3; Ro 3:23
2862
7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now
well stricken in years.
8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the
order of his course,
9 According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he
went into the temple of the Lord.
10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.
11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the
altar of incense.
{Return to: Zc 3:1 }
12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy
wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
John (Ἰωάννη) yohannee a Greek form of Jochanan God has been Gracious Also
grandfather of Judas Maccabeus.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong
drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Before Pentecost, the Holy Spirit generally came upon people, rather than indwelling
them. Since John was to be the embodiment of the prophesied return of Elijah,
(Mt 17:12-13) (Mal 4:5) he was to be exceptional in many ways.
16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the
fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready
a people prepared for the Lord.
See: Mal 4:6; Mt 17:12-13. {Return to: Is 40:4, Mt 17:12, Rv 11:3 }
18 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man,
and my wife well stricken in years.
19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of
God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
Gabriel God’s Champion This is likely a title for this class of angel rather than a proper
name. Michael, and Satan, on the other hand, appear to be proper names for two
archangels. {Return to: Is 13:3, Rv 8:2 }
2863
20 And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these
things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be
fulfilled in their season.
season ( καιρὸν) a universally fixed or definite time (which in the case of normal
human gestation is 266-270 days or about 38 weeks.) {Return to: verse 5, verse 64 }
21 And the people waited for Zacharias, and marveled that he tarried so long in the
temple.
22 And when he came out, he could not speak unto them: and they perceived that he
had seen a vision in the temple: for he beckoned unto them, and remained
speechless.
23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were
accomplished, he departed to his own house.
the days of his ministration which for the course of Abijah were the eighth or thirtysecond
week.
24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months,
saying,
24 And during (or in the midst of) those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid
herself five months, saying,
during (or in the midst of) μετά (3326)[(literally amid or among) with respect to time
while or during] NOT after ὀπίσω (3694).(after), it specifically sets the onset of gestation
in the eighth or thirty-second week of the year. From μετά, we get the German ‘mit’
meaning with or among.
those days the days of Zechariah’s service (see verse 23) {Return to: verse 5 , 26 }
There are many threads with the same topic exploring different points on the issue. I've not seen one single constructive response from you and certain others, so again, if you are weary, be a christian, don't come in here to laugh and bully and just don't comment. I'm pretty sure you have bigger challenges in your life to be concerned with than someone wanting to discuss something christian on a bible discussion forum. If you take issue with timing, please go to mod, but i suspect you're not that concerned, it's more a place for you to poke and have fun, there are more appropriate places to do that on this site than on a bible discussion thread where some are truly interested in furthering their minds on the issue.
actually most of the threads on Christmas explore the same thing as this one: whether it's origins are pagan or not.. and the ones who see it as pagan bully the ones who celebrate it and tell them they are heathens who are going to hell. How is THAT christian-like? hmmm??