Modern day Christmas is a very capitalistic holiday. It's all centered around buying and selling goods and merchandise. The economy of the United States is heavily dependent upon the holiday season. Only a socialist would have something against Christmas, which is basically a celebration of capitalism.
Christmas
- Thread starter laura_charlotte
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I do brother.
We have to remember what Yah has shown us in His Word, about how He has warned people time and time again about what they were doing was wrong, and it would be punished. He kept warning till He could not take it any longer, then came the punishment.
Same thing is happening here.
Do you profess with your mouth, but your heart is far from Yah?
History is repeating itself again it seems...
I agree.
and my only thought is...
if I fall short, there is none to blame but me. Yahweh has guided, taught, corrected, given great mercy, all this...
and He still gives opportunity to follow Him.
When I read the historical accounts of people that fell before Yahweh, it is like a call to my soul, do not repeat these errors... (IDK what else to say.. Ive typed and erased a few times)
K
Karraster
Guest
You give great encouragement to me, thank you for that. Sometimes it feels like there aren't many out there who are serious about learning of our Creator and His Word, and can speak about it with reverence.
Imagine Messiah, surrounded by people who were following traditions, He didn't waste a moment, and if one only considered the miracles, they would see He was making a distinction between the Almighty's instructions and the rules and regulations added by men.
Thank you. Yeah.. I know I'm not perfect, but I also know that I want to make Yah joyful with me and my actions, it grieves me to think how He feels when I go astray. I think there are a number of people that seek the "Nazarene walk", just spread out. And yes that is why we must hold fast to the words of the Messiah! (I know you know this, just saying) because His words are without error, without human ego, perfection! and man did He put a difference between His Father's Instructions and the instructions of the pharisees!
i thought christmas is about killing Jesus Christ our Redeemer everyday.Pagan Origins
It's interesting to realise that December 25th (Christmas) in the Roman Empire and prior - was the day people celebrated the birthdays for these idols / demons / pagan gods:
I thought Christmas is about killing JesusChrist our redeemer everydaywhy would
Apollo, Attis, Bacchus, Dionysus, Helios, Hercules, Horus, Jupiter, Mithras, Perseus, Sol Invictus and Tammuz.
If you investigate the ancient religions - you find that almost all of them have origins with Nimrod. The bible doesn't say much about him - but mentions him (Genesis 10:8, 1 Chronicles 1:10, Micah 5:2).
Nimrod's birthday was also celebrated on December 25th by many. According to the ancient Babylonians, Semiramis (who was believed to be both Nimrods mother and wife - also known as Astarte, Asherah, Ashtoreth, Isis, Ishtar and Easter) made the claim that after Nimrod died, an evergreen tree sprang up overnight from a dead tree stump. Semiramis claimed that Nimrod visited the evergreen tree and left gifts each year on the anniversary of his birth (December 25th). These beliefs were in circulation well before Jesus entered the scene of human history. Does this sound familiar?
Jeremiah - one of Gods prophets, who lived between 600-500 BC wrote of these pagan rituals saying (Jeremiah 10);
Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them, for the customs of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move.
For the first 300 years of Church history - Christmas didn't exist. No one celebrated Jesus birth. However, many believers (though not under obligation) did celebrate the festival / feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles).
It's almost unanimously agreed among scholars that Jesus was not born on December 25th. The bible describes how the sheep were in the fields (Luke 2) at the time of Jesus birth. This didn't happen in the middle of winter when it snows. Some have tried to calculate Jesus birth based on various details in scripture, alongside historical information and speculate that it's likely he was born during the feast of Tabernacles (which makes sense).
Speculating Jesus Birth Date
Elizabeth (John the Baptist's mother) was six months pregnant when Jesus was conceived (Luke:1:24-26). John's father - Zacharias was a priest serving in the division of Abijah in Jerusalem's temple (Luke:1:5). Based on the priestly division cycles - Zacharias service would have been around mid June in that year. After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (Luke:1:23-24). If John's conception took place towards the end of June, then we add nine months and it brings us to the end of March. If we add six months it brings us to the end of September.
We don't know for certain when Jesus was born - but we can arrive at an approximate time period. What we do know, is that it wasn't December 25th!
Charles Spurgeon's Thoughts On Christmas
Charles Spurgeon, the famous preacher from the 1800's said this about the observance of Christmas:
"We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and, secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Saviour; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. Superstition has fixed most positively the day of our Saviour's birth, although there is no possibility of discovering when it occurred. Fabricius gives a catalog of 136 different learned opinions upon the matter; and various divines invent weighty arguments for advocating a date in every month in the year. It was not till the middle of the third century that any part of the church celebrated the nativity of our Lord; and it was not till very long after the Western church had set the example, that the Eastern adopted it. Because the day is not known, therefore superstition has fixed it; while, since the day of the death of our Saviour might be determined with much certainty, therefore superstition shifts the date of its observance every year. Where is the method in the madness of the superstitious? Probably the fact is that the holy days were arranged to fit in with heathen festivals. We venture to assert, that if there be any day in the year, of which we may be pretty sure that it was not the day on which the Savior was born, it is the twenty-fifth of December. Nevertheless since, the current of men's thoughts is led this way just now, and I see no evil in the current itself, I shall launch the bark of our discourse upon that stream, and make use of the fact, which I shall neither justify nor condemn, by endeavouring to lead your thoughts in the same direction. Since it is lawful, and even laudable, to meditate upon the incarnation of the Lord upon any day in the year, it cannot be in the power of other men's superstitions to render such a meditation improper for to-day. Regarding not the day, let us, nevertheless, give God thanks for the gift of his dear son."
Christ Mass
The Roman Catholic Mass (which is where the mass in Christmas comes from) itself is evil in the sense that it adds to the completed work of Christ on the cross! Mediation is made by a human priest between men and God, in contradiction to the clear teachings of the New Testament which tells us that there is one mediator between God and man the Lord Jesus Christ. Scripture teaches that the Spirit of Christ dwells in us when we are born again, and that we need no man to mediate between us and Christ. We can come boldly before the throne of grace through the power of Gods Holy Spirit in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus to find mercy and grace in our time of need! God can hear our prayers! We don't need a ritual to get right with God. Additionally, I'd like to point out that there are many ancient pagan and occult symbols that have been adopted and re-branded within the Catholic tradition and Church (which we won't speak about now) as well as the merging of false deities that were renamed to saints - which to this day are prayed too within the Church. There are many problems with Catholicism - we'll leave those for another day. This article is about Christmas.
Santa Claus
As adults we can overlook the serious problems of Santa because they don't necessarily effect us directly. But what about our Children? Children are taught that he is a real man, who knows when they are naughty and nice, he knows when they are sleeping and awake. Does this characteristic sound familiar? God alone enjoys omniscience. This is a unique characteristic of God. Santa in one night travels the globe, stops time, and delivers gifts. He carries with him eternal like characteristics. Children write letters to Santa and communicate with this person they believe will answer their requests!
For a child - they genuinely believe in him. This is IDOLATRY! Not only do parents lie to their children, but they set up an idol for them to in a sense worship. There is no real difference between the relationship Santa has to a child, and the Hindu gods have to their worshipers. God tells us not to lie, yet many feel that Christmas is a time they will be overlooked, alongside Easter with the Easter bunny, or the Tooth Fairy.
Jesus didn't hide from controversy, but rejoiced in the truth, which is why I am going to say this... Santa Claus is demonic!
Christian Response
The big question is - should we remember and celebrate Jesus birth on December 25th? Well firstly - it's clear that we are under no obligation to celebrate Jesus birth! Likewise - we are under no obligation not too! But what shouldn't we do? We shouldn't practice paganism. Just as God wouldn't like us to practice Yoga (a form of Hinduism), or wear pentagrams and occult symbols around our necks, or participate in demonic rituals - he doesn't want us to join in with the evergreen ritual associated with Nimrod and Semiramis, or lie to our Children about Santa.
I don't believe there is anything wrong with giving gifts to people, having a meal, and remembering Jesus birth. But as we do it - let's not give any special reverence to the day itself, or to the pagan elements practiced by those around us (Christmas tree, Santa etc.)
i really don't want to have a life that way.. i'd rather die than to have a life like that. since everything now has been revealed to me and it's hurting me seing that people like them living pointless and absolute no directions, and they just want to kill, and kill, and to kill more for nothing just for absolute nothing. what's sorrow about them is that they like, childrens! on christmas..!
what in the world? what made you think it's about killing Jesus? Christmas is to celebrate his birthi thought christmas is about killing Jesus Christ our Redeemer everyday.
It's really not that hard to see when you look with your heart cleansed with the blood of ha'Mashiah instead of your mind.
The old spoke of His coming, and He did.
It is appointed to man to die once, and after this comes judgement to life or the second death, from which there is no resurrection.
He is the first fruits of judgement to the resurrection and to life.
The new speaks of His coming again, and He will.
The old spoke of His coming, and He did.
It is appointed to man to die once, and after this comes judgement to life or the second death, from which there is no resurrection.
He is the first fruits of judgement to the resurrection and to life.
The new speaks of His coming again, and He will.
Ok, let us please remember that Winter Solstice is Dec. 21 - 22. That is three to 4 days before Christmas.
I also think if the OP wants to pass her info off as fact, she is going to have to have some sources. This is just the same Hebrew Roots Movement propaganda which passes as truth every Christmas.
Astarte did not come up as having a birthday on Google. So scratch that one.
Isis came up as a god in Egypt, but no birthday mentioned that I could find.
As for Semiramis, a lot of questionable sites do mention her as the mother of Nimrod, and place someone's birthday on Dec. 25.
Basically, upon looking up just a tiny bit of this, I am convinced this is all just a smear campaign by anti-Catholics. If you want to debate Catholics, there is a sticky at the top of the BDF. Personally, I think most Catholics leave the church when they find out how the basic tenants of the faith and soteriology are wrong, but.....
WHAT??? This is supposed to be a fun thread? Could have fooled me! No wait, did fool me!
I also think if the OP wants to pass her info off as fact, she is going to have to have some sources. This is just the same Hebrew Roots Movement propaganda which passes as truth every Christmas.
Astarte did not come up as having a birthday on Google. So scratch that one.
Isis came up as a god in Egypt, but no birthday mentioned that I could find.
As for Semiramis, a lot of questionable sites do mention her as the mother of Nimrod, and place someone's birthday on Dec. 25.
Basically, upon looking up just a tiny bit of this, I am convinced this is all just a smear campaign by anti-Catholics. If you want to debate Catholics, there is a sticky at the top of the BDF. Personally, I think most Catholics leave the church when they find out how the basic tenants of the faith and soteriology are wrong, but.....
WHAT??? This is supposed to be a fun thread? Could have fooled me! No wait, did fool me!
I dont believe the issue is with celebrating the birth of the Savior.
I believe the issue is celebrating the birth of the Savior using pagan methods.
.....on a day everyone knows isn't His birthday, only because people wanted to mesh Christianity with paganism, even though there is no Scriptural teaching to celebrate it.
Its more of an issue of people celebrating the traditions of man instead of the traditions of God, which is exactly what Jesus had against the Pharisees.
I can respect to a certain degree people trying to celebrate Jesus' birth on this day, but I also recognize it is a faulty and erroneous attempt at doing so.
Exactly. The ONLY reason why people celebrate christmas At this time in these ways is because pagans started it.
If you consider that the current calendar is not the calendar of the Creator AND it's use of leap year Dec 21-25 may all be accurate.
T
Tintin
Guest
What's with the mixing of Hebrew and English? If you're Hebrew, use the Hebrew. If you're English, use the English. It has nothing to do with the proper names being removed from most translations and everything to do with translating God's Word into a language that speaks to people, that they can understand with ease.
Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."
what does Baal mean?
BAAL (DEITY) [Hebrew - baal] . Canaanite storm and fertility god. The name, which means “lord, ” is an epithet of the god Hadad (lit. “thunderer” ). Well-known from the OT, he is now extremely well-attested in the Ugaritic texts, in addition to being mentioned in other ancient texts.
Freedman, David Noel: The Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York : Doubleday, 1996, c1992, S. 1:546
BA´AL (ba'al; Heb. ba?al, “lord, possessor”).
1. A common name for god among the Phoenicians; also the name of their chief male god. See Gods, False.
Unger, Merrill Frederick ; Harrison, R. K. ; Vos, Howard Frederic ; Barber, Cyril J. ; Unger, Merrill Frederick: The New Unger's Bible Dictionary. Rev. and updated ed. Chicago : Moody Press, 1988
Baal (Heb. ba?al) DEITY
The Canaanite storm- and fertility-god. As an epithet for various West Semitic deities, especially Hadad, the name means “lord,” designating a legal state of ownership or social superiority. With the obvious exception of Yahweh, Baal is the most significant deity in the OT.
Freedman, David Noel ; Myers, Allen C. ; Beck, Astrid B.: Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible. Grand Rapids, Mich. : W.B. Eerdmans, 2000
BAAL [BAY uhl] (lord, master) — the name of one or more false gods, a place, and two people in the Old Testament:
1. A fertility and nature god of the Canaanites and Phoenicians. Also see Gods, Pagan.
Youngblood, Ronald F. ; Bruce, F. F. ; Harrison, R. K. ; Thomas Nelson Publishers: Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary. Nashville : T. Nelson, 1995
Your KJV mixes English and Hebrew here, you see if it was all English it would read;
"to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Lord."
Nothing to see here right? Just conspiracy theory... Who cares if the Creator LITERALLY said "THEY CAUSED people to forget His Name for Lord"...
1 Corinthians 8 - as long as we don't worship the idol, we're perfectly fine eating the meat sacrificed by others to it. Until such a freedom causes a less experienced brother/sister to stumble. So, for Laura's sake, I'm packin' up my tree and putting away my Santa. Can I keep the nativity up? Are ya ok with that?
Let me know when you get past the milk and into the meat.
Let me know when you get past the milk and into the meat.
Lets see what the Bible publishers have to say concerning this;
New King James Version (Biblica) - Preface
"The covenant name of God was usually translated from the Hebrew word as "LORD" or "GOD", using capital letters as shown, as in the King James Old Testament. This tradition is maintained. In the present edition the name is so capitalized whenever the covenant name is quoted in the New Testament from a passage in the Old Testament."
Good News Translation Bible - Preface
"Following an ancient tradition, begun by the first translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (the Septuagint) and followed by the vast majority of English translations, the distinctive Hebrew name for God (usually transliterated Jehovah or Yahweh), is in this translation represented by “LORD.” When Adonai, normally translated “Lord,” is followed by Yahweh, the combination is rendered by the phrase “Sovereign LORD.”
New American Standard Bible - Preface
"THE PROPER NAME OF GOD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT: In the Scriptures, the name of God is most significant and understandably so. It is inconceivable to think of spiritual matters without a proper designation for the Supreme Deity. Thus the most common name for the Deity is God, a translation of the original Elohim. One of the titles for God is Lord, a translation of Adonai. There is yet another name which is particularly assigned to God as His special or proper name, that is, the four letters YHWH (Exodus 3:14 and Isaiah 42:8). This name has not been pronounced by the Jews because of reverence for the great sacredness of the divine name. Therefore, it has been consistently translated LORD. The only exception to this translation of YHWH is when it occurs in immediate proximity to the word Lord, that is, Adonai. In that case it is regularly translated GOD in order to avoid confusion. It is known that for many years YHWH has been transliterated as Yahweh, however no complete certainty attaches to this pronunciation."
It was the Pharisees that prohibited the Name of Yahweh from being spoken.
Are we followers of the pharisees or followers of thew Messiah?
Mattithyah 23:39, "For I say to you: From this moment you will not see Me, until you say: Blessed is He Who comes in the Name of Yahweh!"
PS I dont think the Messiah obeyed the pharisees by replacing YHWH with the Lord...
How is it meat to accept pagan practices?
How is it milk to reject pagan practices?
When did partaking in pagan rituals become acceptable?
I think it's important to celebrate Christ's birthday like most of us. My question is, if our Father gives us the day to celebrate his Son's birth day, why not celebrate it on that day? But of course, we have to ask to know...
James 1:5
So that's my question to our brothers and sister; are we asking? Do we even care to know? If the living God is real, and his word true, then what James says (above) is true. Why not ask if we don't know? And why not celebrate the actual day if we do?
Christ's birthday is detailed in the first two chapters of the book of Luke. The information that's given in those two chapters is enough to know when Christ was born if we understand God's biblical calendar & feast days. The ultimate context is time.
As ancillary evidence, scripture even says that when Christ comes to reign there is a holiday all the nations must celebrate or they will not receive any rain (Zechariah 14). It's the feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot), when the word was made flesh and made his "dwelling" (i.e. "tabernacled") among us (1 John 1:14). A tabernacle (sukkah) is a temporary dwelling; a temporary shelter...exactly what Christ's manger was.
There was no room in the inn. Why? Because for 3 times a year all able-bodied males are supposed to be in Jerusalem for worship: Feast of Unleavened Bread, Feast of Weeks, Feast of Tabernacles. And the timing of the months from Zechariah's service in the temple (feast of Weeks/Pentecost), all the way to Christ's birth (the following year), brings the narrative to the 7th biblical month. The Feast of Tabernacles is in the 7th month.
Our Father lays it all out for anyone who cares to know and celebrate Christ's birthday; commanded to be remembered throughout Israel's generations. Hundreds of years long before Christ was even born of the flesh, God made sure his son's birthday was set apart as special.
James 1:5
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that gives to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
So that's my question to our brothers and sister; are we asking? Do we even care to know? If the living God is real, and his word true, then what James says (above) is true. Why not ask if we don't know? And why not celebrate the actual day if we do?
Christ's birthday is detailed in the first two chapters of the book of Luke. The information that's given in those two chapters is enough to know when Christ was born if we understand God's biblical calendar & feast days. The ultimate context is time.
As ancillary evidence, scripture even says that when Christ comes to reign there is a holiday all the nations must celebrate or they will not receive any rain (Zechariah 14). It's the feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot), when the word was made flesh and made his "dwelling" (i.e. "tabernacled") among us (1 John 1:14). A tabernacle (sukkah) is a temporary dwelling; a temporary shelter...exactly what Christ's manger was.
There was no room in the inn. Why? Because for 3 times a year all able-bodied males are supposed to be in Jerusalem for worship: Feast of Unleavened Bread, Feast of Weeks, Feast of Tabernacles. And the timing of the months from Zechariah's service in the temple (feast of Weeks/Pentecost), all the way to Christ's birth (the following year), brings the narrative to the 7th biblical month. The Feast of Tabernacles is in the 7th month.
Our Father lays it all out for anyone who cares to know and celebrate Christ's birthday; commanded to be remembered throughout Israel's generations. Hundreds of years long before Christ was even born of the flesh, God made sure his son's birthday was set apart as special.
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