Christmas
- Thread starter gdyloves
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Yes I too like to get together with family, and friends both in church and not and celebrate the Christmas season and the reason for the season... I also love to post these verses of scripture and most Christian who see it say: I didn't know that was in the Bible... About the Christmas tree?... Make what you will of it... Brother Glen
Jeremiah 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
This was one of many Scriptures which speak of the "Asherim," (plural for the name of the Cannanite goddess Asherah) and it refers to the totem pole type icons that were worshipped and were very common throughout the land. They were made from a single trunk (stock) of a tree, had faces and hands and feet carved into them, and for the more wealthy were covered with beaten plates of gold or brass and often draped with robes. I wrote a more detailed account here: https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-...istory-of-the-christmas-tree/420137881391239/
They had nothing to do with Christmas trees, which Christians didn't adopt for use until the late 16th and early 17th century.
Where Christmas trees came from was the old traveling troups of actors and singers. During this period (the Dark Ages), only priests and church ministers were allowed to have Bibles, but since the vast majority of the people were illiterate, they wouldn't have been able to read them anyway. And all church services, including reading of Scripture, was conducted in Latin, which the common people did not understand. So the only real source people had for hearing the Bible stories were from traveling troups of actors and singers who crisscrossed the countryside performing plays. According to historical sources, one of the most popular plays that was performed at Christmas time was the Paradise Play. The opening scene included an evergreen tree cut down and used as a prop and strung with apples to symbolize the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (that's where the idea of the forbidden fruit being an apple came from, and also why the apple is associated with schoolbooks). In the final scene, the tree is hung with wafers (to symbolize the Eucharistic representation of the body of Jesus as the bread of life).
Eventually the people adopted the use of evergreen trees at Christmastime to share the Gospel and teach it to children. It was first recorded in a small village in Germany, but the popularity soon spread. But it didn't catch on in the rest of Europe and America until the German prince Albert and his wife, Queen Victoria of Great Britain, erected a Christmas tree in the palace and sent out the first "Christmas Greetings" in the form of a wooden carving of the family around their Christmas Tree. The woodcarving was published in Godey's Lady's magazine and from there the popularity of the Christmas tree took off and soon became a fixture of the holiday season.
Christmas trees have nothing to do with paganism.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
Yes, I know
Why do you call Him "the" Jesus? Or was that a typo? Passover was not just about the death of Jesus, though
The Passover lamb foreshadowed God's final Passover Lamb and suffering Servant Jesus Christ, Whom God would send to this world to be sacrificed so that His blood could be used tocover the sin of His elect. All who placed their faith in Him would be saved from the bondage of sin and guilt, counted as children of God, and delivered into the kingdom of God, through His resurrection to new life, escaping the second death reserved for those who do not repent and believe the gospel, and place their faith in Him.
Typology of the Passover in the Redeeming Work of Jesus Christ
[TABLE="width: 1, align: center"][TR]
[TD="class: color, bgcolor: #FFEE8C, align: center"] PassoverAndUnleavenedBread [/TD]
[TD="class: color, bgcolor: #FFEE8C, align: center"] Jesus===of===Nazareth [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] The Passover victim was selected for sacrifice on the 10[SUP]th[/SUP] of Abib/Nisan (Ex 12:3). [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Jesus rode into Jerusalem to keep the Passover on the 10[SUP]th[/SUP] of Nisan; He was the Lamb selected for sacrifice (Jn 1:29; 12:1-2, 12-14). [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] The Passover victims were to be kept in the community for five days (Ex 12:3, 6).* [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] For five days Jesus taught the community of Israel in the Temple (Mt 21-26:2).* [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] The blood of the Passover victim that was spread from the threshold of the doorways to the doorposts and lintel was a cross-shaped 'sign of the Israelites' firstborn redemption from death (Ex 12:13, 21-23). [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Jesus' blood on the Cross was the sign of man's redemption from sin and death (Acts 3:17-26). [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] Hyssop was used to put the blood on the door posts and lintels (Ex 12:22). [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Hyssop was used to give Jesus His last drink on the Cross (Jn 19:29). [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] No bones of the victim were to be broken (Ex 12:46). [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Jesus' bones were not broken like the men crucified with Him (Jn 19:32-36). [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] The Israelites were redeemed from slavery when they fled out of Egypt on the 15[SUP]th[/SUP] of Abib/Nisan (Ex 12:29-42). [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Jesus gave up His life on the Cross, redeeming mankind from sin and death on the 15[SUP]th[/SUP] of Nisan (Jn 18:28, 17-18). [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] Each Passover victim died so that the Israelites might live temporally. [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Jesus was the Passover victim who died so that mankind might live eternally. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] The Passover victims were the food of the sacred feast which the Israelites ate so that they might live (Ex 12:8, 13). [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] St. Paul identified Jesus as our Passover Lamb that we might celebrate the feast of the Eucharist (1 Cor 5:7-8) and eat Jesus' flesh that we might live (Jn 6:50-58). [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] As part of the covenant obligations the first Passover and sacred meal of the Passover victim was to be remembered and relived by every generation (Ex 12:14, 42). [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Jesus told the disciples to eat His Body and Blood and to "do this in remembrance of me," a command every generation of New Covenant believers must obey (Lk 22:19-20). [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] The sacrifice of the Passover victim was God's plan for the salvation of Israel (Ex 12:13). [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] The sacrifice of Jesus the Messiah was God's plan for the salvation of mankind (Jn 3:1-16; 1 Jn 4:9).[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Agreed! The "Asherim" were actually a Mediterranean version of totem poles.
And here's an archaeological artifact, a stone engraving on a sarcophagus showing a pillar figurine of a god being carried and lifted up and dropped into a stand to make it stand upright exactly as Jeremiah described.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
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Agreed! The "Asherim" were actually a Mediterranean version of totem poles.
And here's an archaeological artifact, a stone engraving on a sarcophagus showing a pillar figurine of a god being carried and lifted up and dropped into a stand to make it stand upright exactly as Jeremiah described.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
So then, there is NO MENTION of the greatest High Day in the history of the world that man created in worship of Jesus.
That is fascinating when you think about it. Those closest to Jesus never mentioned or observed it. There is no mention in Acts or nor prophesies regarding the creation of the greatest "Feasts unto the Lord" ever created by man, except Paul warning not to do such things as did the examples God had written for our admonition.
1 Cor. 10: 5-7.
Rev. 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
I wonder who this is speaking to?
I read the article and the author makes a number of historical mistakes. The courses served according to the Levitical (or Priestly) calendar, which began in the Spring with the month of Nisan. The calendar which began in the fall with the month of Tishri was the civil calendar. There were two other calendars in use, one for the King, and another for taxation. But the the one which governed the Temple and it's services was the Levitical calendar laid out in Leviticus.
Another problem is that there were 24 courses of priests each serving 24 weeks and then the rotation began over again. But there are 50 weeks plus 4 days in a year. With 24 courses serving 48 weeks, who served the rest of the weeks?
Also, the weekly courses still served their regular weekly rotation, even if it was a festival week. All 24 courses took part in the festival sacrifices and offerings, but the daily sacrifices and offering were still required, and the priestly course whose turn it was officiated at those.
And we can actually test the correctness of the calculations the author uses. According to his calculations, the 16th course would have been on duty on the 9-10th of the month Ab. However, we know with certainty from both the Jewish Talmud "On Feasting and Fast Days" at 29a, and also from Josephus "Wars of the Jews," at 6.4:1,5, that it was instead the 1st course of Jehoiarib that was on duty. So the calculations the author uses in his article cannot be correct.
Now taking a fixed date when we know from two historical sources that the 1st course was on duty in August of 70 A.D. when the Temple was destroyed, and calculating backward, the course to which Zacharias belonged was serving from the 2nd to the 9th of Tishri in the year 6 B.C., putting John's conception in mid September and Elizabeth's 6th month in mid-March making Mary's conception of Jesus in mid-March (historically dated to March 25) and Jesus' birth 9 months later in December (historically dated to December 25).
The actual evidence from historical records supports the December 25 date.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
Um, I think that might be an understatement. The first two chapters of Matthew and Luke are about Jesus' birth, and about the angels of heaven and shepherds and wise men celebrating his birth. So those of us who also celebrate his birth are in good company.
Nonsense. There are extant writings dating back to the 1st century, within a generation of the Apostles, that speak of the Feast of the Nativity (as Christmas was originally called) with admonishments from men like Clement to be diligent to keep the feast. And as for the criticism of the Christians of the third century adopting paganism, nothing could be further from the truth. An extant letter from the Roman Emperor Julian the Apostate who wrote to his High Priest Arsacius about the Christians, records his testimony that the whole reason Rome ceased the awful persecution of Christians was that it had not accomplished anything, the Christians continued in the faith which had spread throughout the Roman Empire and refused to pay even cursory homage to the Roman gods. Julian also wrote to his High Priest that he was to instruct the pagan priests that they were to begin to emulate the Christians in showing love and charity to everyone, especially the needy, in hopes that Rome could convert Romans back to the pagan faith of their fathers.
So it is absolutely NOT true that Christians were adopting paganism, the exact opposite in fact. And for all the criticism I have heard about the Nicene Council, the truth is the vast majority of those old saints that attended that council bore in their own bodies the proof of their devotion to Christ, and I tremble when I hear them condemned as heretics that "mixed paganism" with Christian doctrine.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
William Tynndale translated the Bible into English and he made heavy use of Luther's German translation and he coined a number of English words as translations. For example, he coined the word "passover" to translate the Hebrew "pesach" and the Greek "pascha". He also translated Luther's German word for resurrection which was "ostern" and coined the word "Easter." Accordingly, Tynndale used the word "passover" to translate the word "pesach" in the Old Testament, and "pascha" in all pre-resurrection instances in the New Testament, and used "Easter" to translate the word "pascha" in the post-resurrection instance to mark the before and after distinction. There is no pagan entymology associated with the word Easter. It is simply an English translation of the word "Ostern" which was the German translation of the word "pascha."
For a more detailed analysis see: http://youtu.be/kkHa9BDRT7k
But what is really the more important point here is that Easter is NOT the Christian Passover. Easter is the Christian Feast of the Resurrection, which is why it always observed on the Sunday following the Paschal moon.
The Christian Passover is actually the Lord's Supper, the "feast" where we partake of the body and blood of the Lamb of God who was sacrificed for us.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
Hello everybody, recently I was struggling with the option of choosing as a Christian to celebrate Christmas. I'm familiar with Paganistic tradition that celebrates winter solstice as a holy day on December 25th. I'm familiar with Constantine who formed Roman Catholicism after being converted from paganism. I'm very well aware of both sides of the arguments and key points when it comes down to participating or abstaining from celebrating Christmas. Both sides have very valid points and I admire the sincerity among my brothers and sisters in Christ whose only desire is to be obedient to God through their faith. After a proper evaluation and ponderance I've come to the conclusion that my family will observe Christmas with Christ being the sole focus. Christ is the focul point of our family 365 days a year and although the real celebration for Christians is in His death, burial and resurrection, we still like to come together as a family and rejoice over our Kings birth as well. Birthdays are only mentioned twice in the Bible and both have a negative connotation but that's another topic altogether. Ok, so here's my point. Let's consider the origins of the names of the days of the week, have you ever questioned who named them?
The English words for each day bear remnants of Roman tradition, but they have been filtered through centuries of Germanic and Norse mythos. The Germanic people adapted the Roman system by identifying Roman gods with their own deities.
Sunday comes from Old English “Sunnandæg," which is derived from a Germanic interpretation of the Latin dies solis, "sun's day." Germanic and Norse mythology personify the sun as a goddess named Sunna or Sól.
Monday likewise comes from Old English “Mōnandæg,” named after Máni, the Norse personification of the moon (and Sól's brother).
Tuesday comes from Old English “Tīwesdæg,” after Tiw, or Tyr, a one-handed Norse god of dueling. He is equated with Mars, the Roman war god.
Wednesday is "Wōden's day." Wōden, or Odin, was the ruler of the Norse gods' realm and associated with wisdom, magic, victory and death. The Romans connected Wōden to Mercury because they were both guides of souls after death. “Wednesday” comes from Old English “Wōdnesdæg.”
Thursday, "Thor's day," gets its English name after the hammer-wielding Norse god of thunder, strength and protection. The Roman god Jupiter, as well as being the king of gods, was the god of the sky and thunder. “Thursday” comes from Old English “Þūnresdæg.”
Friday is named after the wife of Odin. Some scholars say her name was Frigg; others say it was Freya; other scholars say Frigg and Freya were two separate goddesses. Whatever her name, she was often associated with Venus, the Roman goddess of love, beauty and fertility. “Friday” comes from Old English “Frīgedæg.”
As for Saturday, Germanic and Norse traditions didn’t assign any of their gods to this day of the week. They retained the Roman name instead. The English word “Saturday” comes from the Anglo-Saxon word “Sæturnesdæg,” which translates to “Saturn’s day.”
My point is, how many people choose not to observe Christmas on the grounds of it being derived out of Paganism but in the same breath call Wednesday, Wednesday? In the first chapter of Genesis the days of the week are categorized by first day, second day, third day etc. In fact, the Jewish people do exactly that.
Sunday Yom Reeshone First day
Monday Yom Shaynee Second day
Tuesday Yom Shlee´shee Third day
Wednesday Yom Revee´ee Fourth day
Thursday Yom Khah´mee´shee Fifth day
Friday Yom Ha´shee´she Sixth day
Saturday Shabbat Rest
What about the names of the months? What about their origins?
January - ME Januari(us), OE Januarius, translation of Latin Januarius, named after JANUS, god of beginnings.
February - ME OE Februarius from Latin Februarius, named for Februa, the feast of purification.
March - ME March(e), from Latin Martius, (month of) Mars.
April - ME Averil, OF Avril, Latin Aprilis mensis (month). The name may derive from the Greek goddess of love, Aphrodite.
May - ME OE Maius, Latin Maius mensis (month), from the Greek Maia, goddess of spring (growth).
June - ME Jun(e), OE Iunius, from Latin mensis Junius, named after the goddess Juno, Queen of the gods.
July - ME Julie, OE Julius, from Latin Julius (Caesar) after whom it was named in 44 BC. The original name was quintilis, fifth month in the early Roman calendar.
August - ME OE Agustus from Latin Augustus (Caesar) 8 BC. The original name was sextilis, sixth month in the early Roman calendar.
September - ME Septembre from Latin September, seventh month in the early Roman calendar
October - ME OE from Latin October, eighth month in the early Roman calendar
November - ME OE from Latin November, ninth month of the early Roman calendar, from novem NINE
December - ME Decembre from OF and Latin December, tenth month of the early Roman calendar (decem TEN + membri from mens MONTH + ri suffix).
ME = Middle English
OE = Old English
OF = Old French
OHG = Old High German
If one chooses not to observe Christmas in celebration of Christ's birth due to paganistic starting points, than the same individual must not call the 6th month June, or he or she finds self in violation of the law of non contradiction. I say this not to offend or attack anybody but only to challenge your awareness and thinking in love. Some people swat at a gnat but swallow a camel.
I'm 28 years old and am currently at a work release facility in the Florida Department of corrections finishing up a 3 year sentence in 46 days God willing. Anybody interested in hearing my testimony of overcoming abandonment, drug abuse, gangs etc. through the redemptive blood of Jesus, I'd love to share. Let us be humble and loving one towards another in our common goal of bringing glory to our Maker through faith and obedience. Y'all take it easy...
James
The English words for each day bear remnants of Roman tradition, but they have been filtered through centuries of Germanic and Norse mythos. The Germanic people adapted the Roman system by identifying Roman gods with their own deities.
Sunday comes from Old English “Sunnandæg," which is derived from a Germanic interpretation of the Latin dies solis, "sun's day." Germanic and Norse mythology personify the sun as a goddess named Sunna or Sól.
Monday likewise comes from Old English “Mōnandæg,” named after Máni, the Norse personification of the moon (and Sól's brother).
Tuesday comes from Old English “Tīwesdæg,” after Tiw, or Tyr, a one-handed Norse god of dueling. He is equated with Mars, the Roman war god.
Wednesday is "Wōden's day." Wōden, or Odin, was the ruler of the Norse gods' realm and associated with wisdom, magic, victory and death. The Romans connected Wōden to Mercury because they were both guides of souls after death. “Wednesday” comes from Old English “Wōdnesdæg.”
Thursday, "Thor's day," gets its English name after the hammer-wielding Norse god of thunder, strength and protection. The Roman god Jupiter, as well as being the king of gods, was the god of the sky and thunder. “Thursday” comes from Old English “Þūnresdæg.”
Friday is named after the wife of Odin. Some scholars say her name was Frigg; others say it was Freya; other scholars say Frigg and Freya were two separate goddesses. Whatever her name, she was often associated with Venus, the Roman goddess of love, beauty and fertility. “Friday” comes from Old English “Frīgedæg.”
As for Saturday, Germanic and Norse traditions didn’t assign any of their gods to this day of the week. They retained the Roman name instead. The English word “Saturday” comes from the Anglo-Saxon word “Sæturnesdæg,” which translates to “Saturn’s day.”
My point is, how many people choose not to observe Christmas on the grounds of it being derived out of Paganism but in the same breath call Wednesday, Wednesday? In the first chapter of Genesis the days of the week are categorized by first day, second day, third day etc. In fact, the Jewish people do exactly that.
Sunday Yom Reeshone First day
Monday Yom Shaynee Second day
Tuesday Yom Shlee´shee Third day
Wednesday Yom Revee´ee Fourth day
Thursday Yom Khah´mee´shee Fifth day
Friday Yom Ha´shee´she Sixth day
Saturday Shabbat Rest
What about the names of the months? What about their origins?
January - ME Januari(us), OE Januarius, translation of Latin Januarius, named after JANUS, god of beginnings.
February - ME OE Februarius from Latin Februarius, named for Februa, the feast of purification.
March - ME March(e), from Latin Martius, (month of) Mars.
April - ME Averil, OF Avril, Latin Aprilis mensis (month). The name may derive from the Greek goddess of love, Aphrodite.
May - ME OE Maius, Latin Maius mensis (month), from the Greek Maia, goddess of spring (growth).
June - ME Jun(e), OE Iunius, from Latin mensis Junius, named after the goddess Juno, Queen of the gods.
July - ME Julie, OE Julius, from Latin Julius (Caesar) after whom it was named in 44 BC. The original name was quintilis, fifth month in the early Roman calendar.
August - ME OE Agustus from Latin Augustus (Caesar) 8 BC. The original name was sextilis, sixth month in the early Roman calendar.
September - ME Septembre from Latin September, seventh month in the early Roman calendar
October - ME OE from Latin October, eighth month in the early Roman calendar
November - ME OE from Latin November, ninth month of the early Roman calendar, from novem NINE
December - ME Decembre from OF and Latin December, tenth month of the early Roman calendar (decem TEN + membri from mens MONTH + ri suffix).
ME = Middle English
OE = Old English
OF = Old French
OHG = Old High German
If one chooses not to observe Christmas in celebration of Christ's birth due to paganistic starting points, than the same individual must not call the 6th month June, or he or she finds self in violation of the law of non contradiction. I say this not to offend or attack anybody but only to challenge your awareness and thinking in love. Some people swat at a gnat but swallow a camel.
I'm 28 years old and am currently at a work release facility in the Florida Department of corrections finishing up a 3 year sentence in 46 days God willing. Anybody interested in hearing my testimony of overcoming abandonment, drug abuse, gangs etc. through the redemptive blood of Jesus, I'd love to share. Let us be humble and loving one towards another in our common goal of bringing glory to our Maker through faith and obedience. Y'all take it easy...
James
No one said God's Law isn't important. I have copies in every Bible I own, in several languages and several versions. I have spent my life studying the Law and the Prophets and I know that these two witnesses are every bit as much the Word of God as the Gospels and Epistles.
But the truth is something changed. There is a New Covenant, and it has set the bar for obedience, much, much higher than what the Law did.
For example, Jesus said the Law says "thou shalt not commit adultery" ...
But under the New Covenant, that is not enough, the bar has been raised.
... "But I say unto you, if you look upon a woman to lust after her, you have committed adultery already in your heart."
And that is true of every single jot and tittle of every single commandment and ordinance of the whole Law. It is simply not enough to do what the Law commands, even if you could (which by the way you can't, because God Himself has removed those things that He provided for the Law's observance). But more is required now. It's personal now. You have been set free from the Law so that you can follow the One who gave that Law.
But it is a moment-by-moment walk in faith and reliance on the moving of the Spirit of God within our hearts and minds to mold us and shape us and conform us, not into the image of the Law, but into the image of Jesus.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
Thanks for the reply,
Since you have read the Bible then you know the Law and the Prophets taught not to "hate our brother in our heart", taught the dangers of lusting after women in our heart, taught that Jesus turned His Cheek to those who were His enemies.
In Matt. 5 He said:
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
They were the Mainstream Preachers of His Time. Jesus went on to expose them as liars and creators of their own Sabbaths, and Laws. But in the context of this chapter He goes on to say:
21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
This is speaking to their teaching, which like the serpent who deceived Eve, did have some of God's Word, but rejected parts as well.
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
These scriptures are often given as proof that the New Covenant changed or altered God's Laws. But Jesus didn't raise the bar, He simply included the parts of God's existing Laws that the Mainstream Preachers of His time rejected.
The New Covenant had nothing to do with the definition of God's Commandments. It had to do with the Priesthood and how God Laws were administered, and how sins were forgiven.
Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
No more Levite Priests to read the law to us, no more Levite Priests to perform "Works of the Law" for remission of sins.
There is no mention anywhere in the Bible that Jesus changed, raised the bar, altered, destroyed, or otherwise amended any of God's Commandments for us.
Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
The only change of the Law was to alter the "Priesthood" so that someone other than a "Levite" could be appointed to the position. Jesus was from Judah, as Prophesied, so the Law and Prophets foretold of this change.
There is zero evidence anywhere else of any change to God's Commandments. I would be glad for you to show me some if you can, but Matt. 5 doesn't do it and I am not aware of any other.
I don't mean to be argumentative, but these things are very important given all the warning Jesus gave about deception, etc.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply
You can’t have it both ways my friend. Either there were changes to the Law or there weren’t. And the Law was not a list of commandments to pick and choose from. You can’t say well God changed these commandments and we no longer have to obey them but he didn’t change those commandments and we still have to obey them. The Law was a covenant between God and Israel wherein they were commanded to keep all the commandments, not some. You can’t have one foot in the Old Covenant, and one foot in the New Covenant. Either obedience to the Law will save you from sinning against God, or faith will.
My friend, in the generation that saw the coming of Jesus and the institution of the New Covenant, everything that pertained to Old Covenant observance was destroyed. Every single thing that God had provided for it to even be possible to observe the Law as it was written, was done away with. It is strange to my mind that you can say God didn’t change the commandments of the Old Covenant knowing He took away everything and thereby rendered those commandments impossible to keep.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
The New Covenant had everything to do with the definition of God's commandments. It was the very fulfillment of God's commandments. The New Covenant is what the Old Covenant was patterned after.
Read the story of Moses once more, going up into the mount, and how God shows him a vision of the Kingdom of God and the very courts of Heaven. And then how God told him to see that the Law was "patterned after" what he had been shown.
But when Moses came down out of the mount, his face was lit up with the glory of the things he had seen so that the people took one look at him and ran in terror. Then they asked that he put a veil over his face so they could talk with him without being frightened.
Paul teaches us that this had deep meaning. That in the same way the Law, which is holy and good and glorious, can actually become a veil upon our hearts that can blind us to what the purpose and goal of the Law was, which is to teach us about God's Kingdom, about Heaven, about the courts of Heaven, about the Heavenly Jerusalem, about the people of God who even now go up to that city to keep the feast and drink of the water of life and enter by the blood of Christ through the veil into the very throne room to stand in the presence of God.
These are the things that the Law and it's many commandments and ordinances were given to teach us about, to prepare us for, to lead us to.
Those commandments that were earthly types and shadows didn't change with the New Covenant? Not so. EVERYTHING has changed.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
L
lancaster
Guest
You are correct in Jeremiah the 10th chapter speaks somewhat about it however Paul says this about holidays Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. the whole thing isn't worth the hassel. from the heart you seen this.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. the whole thing isn't worth the hassel. from the heart you seen this.
I believe your approach is spot on:
Exodus 12:2 This month (Nissan) shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
1 Chron 24:7-18 King David ordered a portion of the Priesthood. 24 priestly divisions/courses that were then instituted during Solomon’s reign
This priestly rotation began in the Hebrew month of Nissan
Luke 1:5 John the Baptist's father, Zechariah, belonged to the priestly division of Abijah. (1 Chron 24:10) The 8th division/course to serve, 8 days Sabbath to Sabbath
Conception & Birth of Christ.
A different perspective
Hanukkah/Chanukah = Feast of the Dedication also called """Feast of Lights"""
Jesus is the Light of the World John 8:12
John 10:22-25
22 At that time the Feast of the Dedication (Hanukkah/Chanukah) took place at Jerusalem;
The ninth candle on the Hanukkah Menorah. Is called the SERVANT candle & used each day to light the other of the 8 candle sticks. Jesus is the Light & the Lighter.
Believers have been lit by "The Anointed One" to be lights that shine & point to the LIGHT of the WORLD, Jesus the Christ.
The Gospel of Mark: Jesus is portrayed as the servant of the Lord. Also see Servant in Isa 53 & Mark
Jesus was most likely conceived in Dec 4 B.C, during Chanukkah, then born in Sept 3 B.C, during the Feast of Trumpets at Tekiah ha-Gadol. Then circumcised 8 day's later on Yom Kippur. Then dwelled/tabernacled in a manger (sukkah) with his parents during the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) that yr.
If you are referring to Christmas, I think calling it "the greatest High Day in the history of the world" would be a bit much. That honor would have to go to Easter. But certainly man didn't "create" the birthday of Jesus, and it was heralded by a star that brought Magi from the East and was announced by myriads of angels and witnessed by Temple shepherds and the account takes up the first two chapters of two of the Gospels. So it certainly holds a place of importance in the New Testament.
That doesn't mean the day of Jesus' birth was simply ignored. And it would actually be odd as Jews were very careful to mark the stages of a child's life, especially boys, and their 13th birthday was especially important and was celebrated with a bar mitzvah. So you are assuming that because it is not somehow commanded or formally observed in his later life that his birthday was ignored. Obviously Matthew and Luke were both keenly interested in the story of Jesus' birthday and must have questioned Mary about it. So perhaps you are going to something of an extreme.
Apostate Jerusalem, the only city on earth that was guilty of both the blood of the Old Testament saints AND the apostles of Jesus.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
I haven't based my conclusions on interpretations of scripture or of feasts but on historical and archaeological evidence. It could just as easily be argued that Jesus was born during the Feast of the Dedication commemorating that a light had come into the world, ergo Hanukkah and Christmas fall around the same time of year.
That date is too late. I know there are arguments that historians are wrong about Herod having died in March of 4 B.C., but the discovery of a coins minted by his sons dating their reigns beginning in 4 B.C. has proven the date to be accurate.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
Actually, there aren't any religions that are known that celebrate the winter solstice three days after it occurs, which is on the night of December 21/22. It's a myth that Christianity adopted a pagan holiday for Jesus' birth, the date of December 25 for his birth is recorded in writings dating back to within one generation of the time of the Apostles.
Roman Catholicism was formed by the bishops of Rome long before the time of Constantine. He actually played only a minimal role in helping the churches settle two doctrinal disputes that arose in the church in the early 4th century by calling a council of all the bishops of all the churches throughout the Roman Empire (basically the world) and witnessed the debate on the issues of the divinity of Jesus as well as settling the controversy about the time to observe Easter. But the decisions were made by the bishops, not by Constantine.
It is a matter of choice of course. My only concern is that those choices not be made based on error or arguments that have no credible evidence to support them. Well, it's not my only concern. I am also concerned that the reputation of Christians from the 4th century is being wrongly tarnished as they are often accused of having mixed paganism with Christianity in order to make the faith "more palatable" to pagans, but my study of the documents and writings shows a very different story. But through it all, my goal and purpose is to worship as Jesus said, "in spirit and in truth."
Congratulations, Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year!
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
Understood, I made no claim that you were in any way wrong. I simply proposed a different perspective. Having said that, scripture is an accurate source of historical knowledge.
Luke 3:1 reveals John the Baptist began his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar’s reign. Tiberius was appointed as co-regent with Augustus in AD 11, and 15 years later would be AD 26.
Jesus began His ministry shortly thereafter at approximately the age of thirty (Luke 3:23). And lasted aprox 3 1/2 years. This was my timeline basis.
Final thought:
The 7 Feasts of the Lord govern scriptural events & time lines. The Feasts were planned, written & fixed. Before the sun, moon & heavens were set as acting witness's to God plan.
The 7 feasts of the Lord are pre appointed times, prophetic shadows. The foundation all scripture is built on. Shalom