CIA torture report paints picture of agency out of control

[kaylagrl]

I'm actually Apolitical. I have a healthy disrespect for all policies that are designed to give more power to an elite few and especially policies / beliefs that use corrupted scriptural doctrine to "justify" them.
Definitely not willing or interested in becoming your enemy, just pointing out your misconceptions

Misconceptions,well perhaps we'll teach each other something.Either way have a blessed day,or evening depending on where you live.lol

 

[djness]

I haven't read the report nor have I read all the posts here but here is my opinion.
I have no problem with torture. Especially when it comes to people who will take your life and the lives of as many people as they possibly can.
I realize as a christian we want to save all of the people out there in love...but when one person bound for hell decides to take another to hell with them in a moment....I'm going to opt to try and prevent that in ANY way possible.

ISIS 'more dangerous than people realize' - CNN.com

Todenhoefer asked the fighter about their treatment of other religions, especially Shia Muslims.
"What about the 150 million Shia, what if they refuse to convert?" Todenhoefer asked.
"150 million, 200 million or 500 million, it does not matter to us," the fighter answered. "We will kill them all."

You try reasoning with that.

 

[Human]

I haven't read the report nor have I read all the posts here but here is my opinion.
I have no problem with torture. Especially when it comes to people who will take your life and the lives of as many people as they possibly can.
I realize as a christian we want to save all of the people out there in love...but when one person bound for hell decides to take another to hell with them in a moment....I'm going to opt to try and prevent that in ANY way possible.

ISIS 'more dangerous than people realize' - CNN.com



You try reasoning with that.

Then you're no better a human being than they are.

 

[The_Wanderer]

ps. Attack Gods chosen people,the Jews,expect to lose.Take a look down through history.God will repay.

Not to veer too far off topic here, but Israel doesn't represent God's "chosen people". Some day, God will make Israel His nation again. For now, they're just as apostate as any other nation on earth. If you think God is always on the side of Israel, read the account in 2 Chronicles 25.

2 Chronicles 25:7, specifically states: But there came a man of God to him, saying, O king, let not the army of Israel go with thee; for the LORD is not with Israel, to wit, with all the children of Ephraim.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Allowing them to commit terrible atrocities is immoral. Committing terrible atrocities to stop them is immoral. It's a quandary.

Fortunately, we have something called 'Just War Theory' to save the day. Apparently that means different things to different people so I'm going to have to clarify what I mean when I use the term which is simply: a legitimate use of force to bring war under the control of justice.

This book was recommended for me to read by someone I respect (though I have not yet read it):

Then you're no better a human being than they are.

 

[Utah]

And once again you call me a liberal.
I am posting from a biblical point of view, not a liberal. Please stop using man made analogies to describe me.
I do not support abortion, so that is another bad attempt to label all people a certain way. I guess you need to get out more and actually talk to people then listening to the bias new sources, and bias politicians that spread lies to win support.

I have met plenty of republicans and democrats alike that support abortion, and plenty of both parties that don't........
The classification of everybody in a group as being the same is a bad habit to get into, and is bearing false witness on a lot of people.

You're bearing false witness calling mild hazing, torture. You're an apologist for our enemies and thankless towards those who keep us safe. We have the God-given right to protect ourselves, live to see another day and advance the Kingdom towards those who do and don't wish to kill us.

 

[The_Wanderer]

The propaganda is running deep and wide in here...

 

[kennethcadwell]

You're bearing false witness calling mild hazing, torture. You're an apologist for our enemies and thankless towards those who keep us safe. We have the God-given right to protect ourselves, live to see another day and advance the Kingdom towards those who do and don't wish to kill us.

You call water boarding mild hazing. A person can very easily die using that method, so yes it is torture and not mild hazing.

 

[David_1]

I think this thread shows how incompatible being a Christ follower and Republican Party apologist really is. A lot of compromised Christians in this thread.

 

[Susanna]

This may be off topic, but it strikes me how the Democratic party and the Republican party have changed over the years. The Democratic party is now the home of people in favor of a strong DC and progressives, liberals etc. It wasn't like that back in the day, and a lot of people have moved their business to the Republican party. This has been causing problems, due to the fact that not everybody around here wants to become a republican on the grounds of republican deeds even if they agree with the republicans.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Don't forget to note how intellectually ignorant, disingenuous, and compromised radical liberals like yourself are by putting their deeply flawed ideology above a correct exegesis of God's Word; even in the face of empirical refutation, as you've been doing since post #1 here David.

[video=youtube_share;IL26YAhGa8c]http://youtu.be/IL26YAhGa8c[/video]

I think this thread shows how incompatible being a Christ follower and Republican Party apologist really is. A lot of compromised Christians in this thread.

 

[TaylorTG]

Don't forget to note how intellectually ignorant, disingenuous, and compromised radical liberals like yourself are by putting their deeply flawed ideology above a correct exegesis of God's Word; even in the face of empirical refutation, as you've been doing since post #1 here David.

Age 51 and you utilize personal attacks.

 

[David_1]

Age 51 and you utilize personal attacks.

It's his modus operandi.

He's a shocker, which is why he's on my ignore list.

 

[Human]

Don't forget to note how intellectually ignorant, disingenuous, and compromised radical liberals like yourself are by putting their deeply flawed ideology above a correct exegesis of God's Word; even in the face of empirical refutation, as you've been doing since post #1 here David.

[video=youtube_share;IL26YAhGa8c]http://youtu.be/IL26YAhGa8c[/video]

There are forms of conservatism the same way as liberalism that seem to be incompatible with Jesus' teachings. For instance, the (generally) conservative idea that personal wealth should be subject to very low taxes in a capitalist paradigm, which, currently, for better or worse, conserves wealth most noticeably among the grotesquely rich -- corporations, bank owners and bankers (as opposed to the generally more liberal view that more wealth should mean more tax). As a governmental policy, this is detrimental to progress in tackling poverty. It is a simple fact of life at present that many go undereducated to an extent that renders them at the rare mercy of those with economic power in society, and while taxes for the rich aren't the sole solution to massive gaps in wealth and to poverty, such a system evidently tends to contribute to extreme degrees of wealth separation, contrary to Jesus' teachings about hoarding money from the poor.

Then there's the radical liberal idea within some circles that abortion should be available on demand for any reason (an idea that I, as a liberal, disagree with). This is contrary to the teachings on the inherent sanctity of life, for obvious reasons.

I don't think factionalism -- liberal vs conservative -- is synonymous with ''heathen vs heavenly'' in this respect. A person can be a leftist liberal, politically, to a degree that allows them to biblically justify their political views, just as someone can be a right-wing Conservative to a particular degree that allows them the same ability to justify their views from the book.

At the end of the day, the umbrella that someone's political views fall under does not automatically render them unable to be biblically justified -- that they can be justified or not depends on the content of the specific view, whatever it may be. Don't you think?

 

[Thailand_Paul]

You're bearing false witness calling mild hazing, torture. You're an apologist for our enemies and thankless towards those who keep us safe. We have the God-given right to protect ourselves, live to see another day and advance the Kingdom towards those who do and don't wish to kill us.

I agree with this statement. But when does protecting ones country include: cluster bombing, drone attacks, misguided missile attacks, black ops, political assassinations and outright murder etc. on another sovereign soil?
That is not defense, it's offense / invasion. Just because spin doctors come up with a catch phrase "preemptive strike" does not change this FACT.
My next door neighbour isn't Christian, said he doesn't like me singing, said if I sing "All is well with my soul" again he'll douse me with water. I think I'll go over there and preemptive strike him on the nose....wonder how I'll fare in court?
Wonder how many people here would support me...after all, I'm defending myself from both a verbal and perceived threat.

 

[Thailand_Paul]

You're bearing false witness calling mild hazing, torture.

You are joking aren't you? Please tell me you're joking.
You ever been water-boarded or near drowning? I have (near drowning) and let me tell you something, if that is mild in your book, to deliberately inflict that on someone under the guise of "mild" or a hazing prank, you not onlt need God as we all do, you need some help. Sorry, but i'm calling that one as I see it.

 

[haz]

Or is this another biased argument that places higher value on Western lives than Eastern ones?.

I think it's obvious which side places a higher value on human lives. But your response is typical leftist moral grandstanding. The Left's support for the likes of the hateful Hamas in it's fight against Israel shows the hypocrisy of the Left.

I don't oppose torture to comfort terrorists, I oppose it because I believe it's wrong nomatter who the victim is; Jihadist or G.I. Joe. And as a citizen of a Western nation, I have a voice to change our practices. Were I a Muslim in Iraq, I would hold similar views about extremist practices; they are wrong..

So in other words you are content that innocents will be killed, enslaved, raped, etc, just so that a terrorist prisoner with relevant information can live peacefully in prison content in knowing that his mates can carry out their attacks on innocents.

That very well may be the case, that you see their ideology as inferior, however it still does not answer the question; are Muslim civilian lives worth less than American or Australian ones? Are Muslim combatant lives worth less than US soldiers'? Both sides fight for what they believe they must..

Again and again I have told you that nobody is saying that Muslims are inferior. You leftists always insist on chanting the same old slogans just to falsely demonize your opponents.

What we see in the world is competing ideologies here. Islam is a supremacist ideology commanding it's followers to fight Jews and Christians until they pay the tax and feel themselves subdued under Muslim rule.

But western cultures, in spite of their many faults, tend have a greater respect for life and liberties than what is commanded in the Quran and evidenced from Muslims today who follow these commands. Islam is without doubt the inferior ideology.

Ironically, the reason that ideology has become more extreme and more widespread is because of the indiscriminate nature of the military's bunker-busting. If you and your kin experienced mass bombings by foes far more technologically and finanially capable than you, wouldn't you feel tyrannized too, perhaps compelled to resist?

Somewhat of a narrow view here. No mention of the Arab spring that destabilized the region, nor of the decades of extremism from Palestinian terrorists in their hateful attacks against Jews and even Christians. And I note no mention of the violent commands in the Quran for jihad to fight and subdue Jews and Christians until they are subdued under Muslim rule.

I oppose war full stop, and as a member of a society professedly more civilized, educated, progressive and contemporary than that of the foes of my country I would expect my country's government and military to behave in a manner that befitted that self-perception,

I understand that there were people sharing that same sentiment trying to appease Hitler leading up to WW2.

But it's good to see you agree that western cultures are more civilized than our Muslim terrorist foes who follow the inferior supremacist ideology found in the Quran.

 

[Utah]

You call water boarding mild hazing. A person can very easily die using that method, so yes it is torture and not mild hazing.

And if they die the world is that much safer. If they die it is their own fault for not only being murderous thugs, but stubborn murderous thugs who have absolutely no regard for life.

 

[Utah]

I agree with this statement. But when does protecting ones country include: cluster bombing, drone attacks, misguided missile attacks, black ops, political assassinations and outright murder etc. on another sovereign soil?
That is not defense, it's offense / invasion. Just because spin doctors come up with a catch phrase "preemptive strike" does not change this FACT.
My next door neighbour isn't Christian, said he doesn't like me singing, said if I sing "All is well with my soul" again he'll douse me with water. I think I'll go over there and preemptive strike him on the nose....wonder how I'll fare in court?
Wonder how many people here would support me...after all, I'm defending myself from both a verbal and perceived threat.

Those are not interrogation tactics, that's war, and its really, really ugly. If our enemies lay down their weapons today, then we will have peace today. If we lay down our weapons today, we'll have carnage as never before seen in human history -- and that's saying an awful lot considering the carnage that's already taken place.

 

[Utah]

You are joking aren't you? Please tell me you're joking.
You ever been water-boarded or near drowning? I have (near drowning) and let me tell you something, if that is mild in your book, to deliberately inflict that on someone under the guise of "mild" or a hazing prank, you not onlt need God as we all do, you need some help. Sorry, but i'm calling that one as I see it.

Paul, I just came back from the dentist and I assure you no enemy terrorist endured more than I did during that hour and a half. And I can argue that we don't inflict anything on anyone; our enemies inflict it upon themselves for not fessing up in the first place. And getting a little wet is much more mild than people being shot, raped and disintegrated.

Are you bipolar? You're insulting, you're nice, you're insulting, you're nice.