Common Denominator

[Patnubay]

Why do Christians bother to argue about OSAS, the culture of worship, Church Polity, Mode of Baptism and Eschatology when the only thing that can save us is ......

Romans 10:9-10(NKJV)

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Why do we care when one believes his salvation can be taken back?
Why do we care when one believes he can pray to God thru Mary?
Why do we care what kind of leadership hierarchy his church has?
Why do we care if one is baptized thru immersion or sprinkle?
Why do we care how the world ends?

Do we really believe these man-made ideas will affect our salvation?

 

[Kaycie]

"Unto" means there is another step. You can't get baptized if you don't believe, otherwise you would just get wet. Therefore, belief is a necessary step toward getting saved, but what actually saves you? 1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism saves you.

 

[crossnote]

Why do Christians bother to argue about OSAS, the culture of worship, Church Polity, Mode of Baptism and Eschatology when the only thing that can save us is ......

Romans 10:9-10(NKJV)

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Why do we care when one believes his salvation can be taken back?
Why do we care when one believes he can pray to God thru Mary?
Why do we care what kind of leadership hierarchy his church has?
Why do we care if one is baptized thru immersion or sprinkle?
Why do we care how the world ends?

Do we really believe these man-made ideas will affect our salvation?

When the only Person (not thing) that can save us is Jesus?

OSAS ..topic ties in with works salvation which is extremely important to get straight.

Culture of Worship..is important to a lesser extent but I usually pass on that one.

Church Polity..Definitely pass, I leave it to the politicians, hardly see it discussed here.

Mode of Baptism..since most claim it is a symbol, why the fuss?

Eschatology..err the whole of Scripture is intertwined with eschatology, we are usually too lazy to study it all out. "Jesus is Coming back" end of issue, so we say.

OSAS is the closest to affecting one's salvation as it can easily put one on a course of works if misunderstood.

 

[Patnubay]

"Unto" means there is another step. You can't get baptized if you don't believe, otherwise you would just get wet. Therefore, belief is a necessary step toward getting saved, but what actually saves you? 1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism saves you.

I think you forgot to write the whole verse. 1 Peter 3:21 includes......... through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. There is no way baptism saves. Even during the time of John the Baptist, baptism only cleanses you from "committed" sin. The future sin is not included hence doesn't save unless one dies immediately after being baptized by John the baptist.. And this is "assuming" no sin means being saved. We have to remember, Jesus said, "no one goes to the Father but thru ME."

ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES.

1 Peter 3:21New King James Version (NKJV)

21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 

[Patnubay]

OSAS is the closest to affecting one's salvation as it can easily put one on a course of works if misunderstood.

Hi Crossnote,


From a student to the teacher, if I may, when I " confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in my heart that God has raised Him from the dead, my confession, this confession, has nothing to do whether I work to be continually saved or believe my work has nothing to do with my salvation. My confession is purely a heartfelt declaration of my faith in Jesus Christ that He alone will give me salvation thru His resurrection. How I continue to interpret the other verses in the bible will not alter that confession. Can you please give some guidance?

 

[Dino246]

These things are worth discussing (not arguing unpleasantly, mind you) not because "my" salvation depends on it, but because "yours" does (and I don't mean you personally). Paul was quite direct with his "fellow Galatians" because they had misunderstood the sufficiency of Christ and were in danger of being un-saved. Not every point is worth arguing, but some are, and we don't all agree on which. Correct doctrine is, in fact, important.

If you look deeply enough at many of these areas, you will find a core doctrinal issue which is worth getting correct. For example, the Bible makes clear that there is one mediator between man and God, the man Jesus Christ, our Great High Priest. Catholics praying through Mary actually have it wrong (from a biblical viewpoint), and their salvation is not certain because of it. We discuss because we want to see them saved.

That all said, there is a time to discuss (or even 'argue' respectfully) but it isn't all the time. Sometimes it's just good to discuss things to refine one's own understanding.

 

[atwhatcost]

Why do Christians bother to argue about OSAS, the culture of worship, Church Polity, Mode of Baptism and Eschatology when the only thing that can save us is ......

Romans 10:9-10(NKJV)

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Why do we care when one believes his salvation can be taken back?
Why do we care when one believes he can pray to God thru Mary?
Why do we care what kind of leadership hierarchy his church has?
Why do we care if one is baptized thru immersion or sprinkle?
Why do we care how the world ends?

Do we really believe these man-made ideas will affect our salvation?

You're going under many false assumptions -- the key one is those people you asked questions about are saved. The second one is that's what they truly believe. People aren't praying to Mary as an intercessor. They're actually praying to Mary, a dead woman saved long ago.

 

[crossnote]

Hi Crossnote,


From a student to the teacher, if I may, when I " confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in my heart that God has raised Him from the dead, my confession, this confession, has nothing to do whether I work to be continually saved or believe my work has nothing to do with my salvation. My confession is purely a heartfelt declaration of my faith in Jesus Christ that He alone will give me salvation thru His resurrection. How I continue to interpret the other verses in the bible will not alter that confession. Can you please give some guidance?

Well thanks for an honor which I am definitely NOT.
If I am understanding you correctly, our confession comes from the heart, for out of the heart the mouth speaks.
The heart speaks from a renewed state (new birth).
True, we are saved and secure by His death and Resurrection, He has given us the eyes of faith that we are sinners and Jesus died and rose from the dead to rescue us. That conviction remains with us just as the new birth remains.
Is this what you are referring to?

 

[posthuman]

just want to say that as a mathematician with a spiritual bent i don't like the thread title.

a common denominator of a set is an integer that divides everything in the set.

a basis for a set is a set of linearly independent vectors such that every element of the set can be written as a linear combination of the basis elements.

we have a basis -- and that's what we ought to stick to.
if we have common denominators, we ought not to be divided by them.

here's a trick for not being divided by something: add One.

if p divides n, then ∀ p ≠ 1, p does not divide (n+1).

add One. yes, that very One.

 

[kaylagrl]

"Unto" means there is another step. You can't get baptized if you don't believe, otherwise you would just get wet. Therefore, belief is a necessary step toward getting saved, but what actually saves you? 1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism saves you.

Then the thief on the cross is in trouble,he was never saved.I guess that whole "you will be with me in paradise" Jesus was just kidding.

 

[pottersclay]

I thought the thief made a confession when he said he was guilty and deserved the punishment he was dealt.
Then looking at Jesus he ask him " Lord remember me" I just thought that's how it went down.

 

[notuptome]

It is not enough to believe on Jesus. You must believe on the Jesus of the bible not the one you create in your own vain imagination we see that in Romans 1. That is what Romans 10 clarifies. Belief is a two way street. We know Christ and most importantly He knows us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Gr8grace]

Hi Crossnote,


From a student to the teacher, if I may, when I " confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in my heart that God has raised Him from the dead, my confession, this confession, has nothing to do whether I work to be continually saved or believe my work has nothing to do with my salvation. My confession is purely a heartfelt declaration of my faith in Jesus Christ that He alone will give me salvation thru His resurrection. How I continue to interpret the other verses in the bible will not alter that confession. Can you please give some guidance?

First of all, confessing with our mouths is a work and is not required for our salvation. It is belief on the person of Christ and what He did for us that saves us.

In Romans 10:9-10, Paul is speaking to the unbelieving Jews. Every Sabbath the Jew would go to the temple and chant the Shema , the first line of the prayer was...... "Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One" (Shema Yisrael Adonai eloheinu Adonai ehad) (Deuteronomy 6:4)

salvation was right on their lips every time they would do the Shema..........if only they would insert Jesus Christ in it.

So Romans 10:9-10 was a specific message to a specific group of people.

What if a person was dumb and mute?

 

[kaylagrl]

I thought the thief made a confession when he said he was guilty and deserved the punishment he was dealt.
Then looking at Jesus he ask him " Lord remember me" I just thought that's how it went down.

Right,but the poster said you have to be baptized to be saved.I was trying to make a point.

 

[dcontroversal]

Why do Christians bother to argue about OSAS, the culture of worship, Church Polity, Mode of Baptism and Eschatology when the only thing that can save us is ......

Romans 10:9-10(NKJV)

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Why do we care when one believes his salvation can be taken back?
Why do we care when one believes he can pray to God thru Mary?
Why do we care what kind of leadership hierarchy his church has?
Why do we care if one is baptized thru immersion or sprinkle?
Why do we care how the world ends?

Do we really believe these man-made ideas will affect our salvation?

I don't believe they will....but many like to insert themselves and what they can do into the equation.....my bible is clear...believe and acknowledge Jesus by faith = eternal salvation, sealing, sanctification and justification.....while presently possessing eternal life that cannot be lost!

 

[dcontroversal]

just want to say that as a mathematician with a spiritual bent i don't like the thread title.

a common denominator of a set is an integer that divides everything in the set.

a basis for a set is a set of linearly independent vectors such that every element of the set can be written as a linear combination of the basis elements.

we have a basis -- and that's what we ought to stick to.
if we have common denominators, we ought not to be divided by them.

here's a trick for not being divided by something: add One.

if p divides n, then ∀ p ≠ 1, p does not divide (n+1).

add One. yes, that very One.

My math is simpler.... 1 + 0 = 1

There is one mediator between God and men...Jesus and his faith, work and sacrifice were and are sufficient to save me and keep me saved!

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Why do we care when one believes his salvation can be taken back?

If one believes it can be "taken back," then he/she believes it is up to him/her to "do" in order to stay saved. The Gospel is a Gospel of God's grace. If we don't understand grace, that we are saved only by the faith God provides us through His grace, that Christ's death and resurrection are all-sufficient for salvation and eternal life, then we don't understand the Gospel, and there is at least a chance we are not saved. How can that be? Not believing the whole of the Gospel of grace means we have not believe the truth. That's why we care.

Why do we care when one believes he can pray to God thru Mary?

Failure to believe any part of the Bible is a failure to understand God's word. Failing to understand God's word is again, a reason to question if one actually knows the truth, or some manmade doctrine. There is only one Mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5). He lives forever to make intercession for us (Hebrews 7:25). He assures us that whatever we ask in His name, He will do (John 14:13, 14). And King Saul got in a lot of hot water with God trying to contact the dead (1 Samuel 28). Praying to the saints is contraindicated by Scripture.

Why do we care what kind of leadership hierarchy his church has?

Paul laid out very specific guideliness for church leadership to Timothy and Titus in his pastoral letters. Anything outside of those guidelines is unbiblical.

Why do we care if one is baptized thru immersion or sprinkle?

Again, biblical guidelines call for immersion.

Why do we care how the world ends?

We need to be able to communicate consequences to the unbeliever. He/she needs proper information that will make them amenable to the Gospel.

Do we really believe these man-made ideas will affect our salvation?

Man-made ideas are the enemy of the Gospel, and we who believe are not affected by them. But our job isn't just to be satisfied in our own gift of God's grace, but help others understand it so they, too, can receive it.

 

[KennethC]

Why do Christians bother to argue about OSAS, the culture of worship, Church Polity, Mode of Baptism and Eschatology when the only thing that can save us is ......

Romans 10:9-10(NKJV)

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Why do we care when one believes his salvation can be taken back?
Why do we care when one believes he can pray to God thru Mary?
Why do we care what kind of leadership hierarchy his church has?
Why do we care if one is baptized thru immersion or sprinkle?
Why do we care how the world ends?

Do we really believe these man-made ideas will affect our salvation?

The reason is because when you put your faith and trust in Jesus as your Lord and Savior you will also put your trust into doing what He said to do, and be guided by the Holy Spirit to walk properly in the faith.

If a person does not follow what the Lord Jesus Christ said then they are following a different Jesus that the Apostle Paul said will not lead to eternal life. For we are called to follow and abide in Him and His words !!!

 

[seed_time_harvest]

"Unto" means there is another step. You can't get baptized if you don't believe, otherwise you would just get wet. Therefore, belief is a necessary step toward getting saved, but what actually saves you? 1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism saves you.

I don't believe that a work done by man makes the spirit perfect.I'm talking about water baptism.

A person that believes that you can be saved(clean the inside)by doing a physical work would fit what the OP is saying.

 

[KennethC]

I don't believe that a work done by man makes the spirit perfect.I'm talking about water baptism.

A person that believes that you can be saved(clean the inside)by doing a physical work would fit what the OP is saying.

It doesn't make the spirit perfect, it makes one's faith perfect..........

James 2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?